Originally posted by: history_geek
For writing on JA, I bore the brunt for very long, even after it ended. Lol. Wahan nahi hua to kisi aur thread / topic par. After you left, i had some "great discussions" which started from my Chittor War writeups, which ultimately (as i expected / knew) culminated into JA. ;)
You know i don't forget. It is all fresh in memory as if it happened yesterday. Hope to have a good time here. Till now the forum looks awesome to discuss. And this thread rightfully reminds me of the good old discussions. In fact with many of you i have enjoyed discussions earlier too.
On a lighter note, i am thankful, this show is Peshwa Bajirao and not Bajirao Mastani, and more than that i am happy, thinking that i am writing ONLY about Bajirao here, not Mastani. Lol.
Checked.
Read.
Enjoyed.
Replied.
Thanks Maddy. Great memories.
Deja Vu. ;)******************************************************
On a side note, i have read your comments. And by others too. Will try my best to give replies to each topic / point raised. I have already mentioned a bit about Kavi Kalash and also about Aurangzeb's will in my above post.
You remarked - rightly, that Aurangzeb won many wars but lost the ultimate battle. This is the same wording which can be found in a Mughal source. Will write later. :))
A historian has said - "He won, but only stones and steel." This is because, he spent so much money to win wars, but when he acquired forts in Deccan, the Marathas did not leave any valuable possession behind, rendering the conquest worthless & expensive.
He was the most hard working Emperor it is said. But just see his policies. All directed in the wrong direction. When he was alive, he got an indication in his last days that his empire was going to crumble soon.
I have written a post on Aurangzeb. For those who want to see, please open this link. About his character sketch. This, i wrote, 2 years back. I have read a lot more on him in last 2 years but this is still good to read. Please check. :)
http://mariam-uz-zamani.blogspot.in/2014/12/aurangzeb-personality-assessment.html#.WJXreBJ2m1s
Originally posted by: history_geek
Interesting post. :)
Would like to write more on Rajaram and related stuff, But appears that we will find discussion on Sambhaji - Akbar - Jodhpur - Amer - Aurangzeb connection more interesting. Most of us can relate to Aurangzeb easily. :P
@Maddy
I am not a historian. This word again transports me 2 years back. :-P
Just like you all i also like to dig for history sources. Though, i go to unconventional / unexplored areas, more.
LOL it was meant as a huge compliment, check the meaning in dictionary - A scholar/student/writer/chronicler/researcher 😆 You qualify 😃
Coming to Akbar.
Akbar was the fourth son of Aurangzeb and he was employed to oversee the invasion of Rajasthan after the death of Raja Jaswant Singh of Jodhpur. Jodhpur was annexed later (not by Akbar). And after that began the long 25 years war with Jodhpur which was spearheaded by Durga Das Rathore !
There were 2 powers in Rajasthan then. Jodhpur and Mewar / Udaipur. Akbar failed miserably in his campaigns against Rana Raj Singh of Udaipur and was repeatedly reprimanded by his father.
He was getting offers (indications is a better term) from both the kingdoms to join them against his father and they would help him to gain the throne. At last he lent a ready car to the appeals of Durga Das Rathore and the envoys of Rana Raj Singh to seize his father's throne with help of Rathores (Jodhpur) and Sisodias (Udaipur).
This, in his words, he did to save the Mughal empire from the malady of his father Aurangzeb. He was convinced that the bigoted nature of persecution of the majority community would spell doom for the empire.
The conspiracy failed* and Akbar was forced to save himself by fleeing to Deccan , where be took refuge in the territory of Sambhaji in 1682. He spent several years in Sambhaji's territory, being a constant threat and source of anxiety to his father but could achieve nothing, and finally fled to Persia where he died in 1687 in exile.
* - It failed because, the person Quli Khan who had introduced Akbar to Rathores and Sisodias, at the last moment, one day before the attack on Delhi was planned, fearing for his life, fled to Aurangzeb. Though, Aurangzeb slayed him. The Rajputs thought this was a conspiracy of Aurangzeb against them using his son Akbar and refused to support Akbar. Akbar was let alone. Though, he was given offer by the Rana of Udaipur to stay in his kingdom, but Akbar moved South, as he thought Mewar was close to Aurangzeb.
He was escorted to the kingdom of Sambhaji by Durga Dar Rathore. I have read that Maratha chroniclers hold Durga Das Rathore in very high terms but did not get the reason. Why ?
Now after reaching here, another alliance was thought to be built up as mentioned earlier. We are interested in the letters which were written, as i mentioned above. Will share in upcoming posts.
Absolutely fascinating reading this. I was not aware of these events and reading just makes me wonder how different India would have been if they had succeeded. Then again how different India would have been if Shivaji Maharaj had lived for 10 more years.
Prince Akbar seems to have gone more on his great-grandfather than his father. What an alliance it would have been. What made Quli Khan run to Aurangzeb?!
@Shruti.
Thanks for the pictures in your last post. Yes, one of the pictures i was talking was the one you have shared. :D
@Maddy
Saw your post just now, which you have posted above. Will check your post, but give some time. I may take time to read. :))
You have also talked of a scathing letter which Shivaji sent to Aurangzeb. Yes, i have read that letter, and posted too.
Again a 2 year old blog. IT is one of my most reviewed* blogs running into 1000s of hits. Here is the link.
* - Have shared it with some historians i have known, for their reviews.
Shivaji in fact, gives a warning that he has already destroyed the roots of his empire and will destroy completely if Aurangzeb does not mends his ways. He has also asked Aurangzeb to learn something from Akbar (his great grand father) about "tolerance and co-existence".
It is a brilliant piece of writing to show calculated aggression and scathing sarcasm at the same time. Do read that letter. If you (or anyone else has not read it then this is going to be really interesting.) Here is the link :
http://mariam-uz-zamani.blogspot.in/2015/11/shivaji-letter-to-aurangzeb-protest-jaziya.html
Originally posted by: The.Lannister
I was just coming here to talk about Tanaji Malusare after reading about him on Twitter today 😳 I am so glad you have covered the anniversary of the recapture of Sinhagad.
Sharing some pictures from Twitter. Shared by @ColonelGerard on twitter:This was Chharapati Shivaji's beloved & impregnable Sinhagad. The pride of all of forts in the realm of Swarajya!Steps of Sinhgad Fort -Clash between Udaybhan & TanajiIs this the picture you were talking about Abhay? Tanaji sitting at Jijabai's feet 😳Sinhagad is shaped like an axe blade & the 2 gates, Kalyan Gate & Pune Gate were well fortified by lofty ramparts & heavily guarded On the western side, the Donagiri cliff was so steep & forested that hardly any fortification was reqd! North & south too were unassailableSource of all the above information & pics: @ColonelGerard on twitter. Anyone interested in History do follow this handle as well as @TrueIndology. Both of them share some really great information on a regular basis.
Hi Rashmi, btw I love your id 😃
I am sure Abhay or Diksha will dig up confirmed information about surname 😆
It is complicated and fascinating. What I have read is Jijabai asked for Shahaji Raje's permission for Shivaji-Sai (Mudholkar) wedding. He approved and was going to attend (for those who don't know the background - Shivaji Maharaj's father Shahaji Raje stayed in Bunguluru, with Sambhaji Raje his first born son with Jijabai and Tukabai his second wife and their son Ekoji Raje). He could not attend the wedding.
After the wedding when Jijabai and Shivaji had gone to Bunguluru, Shahaji Raje lamented not been able to attend and Tukabai had suggested getting married a second time because father has to see his son getting married! Yes Soyrabai was Tukabai's choice and Jijabai had no choice in this!
BTW do you remember, Saibai's brother Bajaji was forcibly converted to Islam and Saibai had taken this rather badly. Shivaji Maharaj had promised to bring him back into Hinduism again.
This created quite a furore and Shivaji Maharaj challenged the Bramhin Pandits religious leaders to a debate which he won. Shivaji Maharaj had said religion should be like a flowing river adapting and accepting. If people are converted forcibly then they should be accepted back into religion. As Ruler he cannot turn his back on them.
So a ritual was suggested and Bajaji underwent it and was accepted back into Hinduism.
Not just that Shivaji Maharaj got his daughter Sakhubai married to Bajaji's son Mahadaji (since with the stigma of earlier conversion it was difficult to get him married).
I don't have enough words to convey the respect, love and admiration for Shivaji Maharaj.
Originally posted by: The.Lannister
Wow thanks for sharing all those letters Abhay. The best one is naturally of Shivaji's to Aurangzeb 👍🏼
I can just see Aurangzeb fuming & throwing things off the nearest table *very filmy style* after finishing that letter 😆 Jokes apart the letter is a great example of the whole "iron fist in a velvet glove" approach. Such mild language even littered with liberal amounts of praise but it conveys the threat perfectly 👏 My personal favourite part was the "to draw new lines on a picture is to find fault with the painter" Excellent display of appealing to Aurangzeb's pious side. Other than the political side, the letter is beautiful for its language alone. In today's world where crude language is the norm such decent exchange between sworn enemies is a rarity 👏 So much class! 👏Can you tell me what Aurangzeb did after receiving this letter? Did he relent or went ahead & did something worst🤢
Reading Shivaji Maharaj's letter to Aurangzeb was a treat. I was aware of the gist of it but reading the actual words is something else.
What a wonderful piece of writing. I wonder if anybody else in that period would have dared to write such a scathing letter to Aurangzeb!
Particularly enjoyed the references - leaving without taking leave from Agra😆 reminder about policies followed by Akbar and Jahangir and the crumbling state of Mogul empire. Aurangzeb must have been livid on getting it.
Did he ever reply to this letter?
Originally posted by: history_geek
Interesting discussion and details. :)
Let me add few more points.
Mother of Shivaji's father - Shah ji was Dipa Bai and she also belonged to the same Nimbalkar family, from which Shivaji's wife Sai Bai belonged. Jija Bai and Dada Ji Kondev (Shivaji's guardian) arranged this marriage of Shivaji.
The surame of Tuka Bai before marriage was Mohite and she was also the paternal aunt of Soyara Bai Mohite.
Not only was Balaji Nimbalkar ( brother in law of Shivaji and brother of Sai Bai ) forcibly converted to Islam by Nizam Shah but also Jija Bai's father, brothers and sons were openly murdered by him.
@Maddy. Since you don't have words to convey respect, love and admiration for Shivaji, let me help you here. :-P { I posted this some where else, too.}
The best tribute, it is said, comes from your critics / enemies. So, here i find it appropriate to quote 3 authorities who were no friends of Shivaji.
1. Mughal historian Khafi Khan*
He writes : " Shiva always strived to maintain the honor of people in his territories. He persevered in a course of rebellion, in plundering caravans, and troubling mankind ; but he entirely abstained from disgraceful acts and was careful to maintain the honor** of women and children of Muhammadans (Muslims) when they fell into his hands. His injunctions upon this point were very strict, and anyone who had disobeyed them received punishment."
Abhay, two very famous instances immediately came to mind reading this. I have post them on my thread in reply to your post there. Giving a link here in case anybody is interested
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/topic/4798700
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/topic/4798700?pn=2
* - He is also called a "plagiarist historian". Lol. But that 'distinction' of his is not related to this topic. It is something else.
** - This makes me remember Maharana Pratap. Remember, the entire harem of Abdur Rahim Khan-i-Khana was captured by his son Amar Singh while they were battling with forces of Akbar ; but were released and sent back with escort on orders of Maharana.
2. This one comes from the English merchants of Surat. I rate this among the best words written for him.
" Shivaji is the fairest friend, noblest enemy, and the most politique prince. He will continue to be victorious, even to a miracle. He came, he saw, he conquered*.
He has taken two very strong rocks, no less, dexterous threat than Alexander the Great and became master of Bijapur.
He has vowed to his God, never to sheath his sword till he has reached Delhi and shut Aurangzeb with it. He had many Muslims in his service and the head of his Navy was a Muslim.
He loved his country and was not partial to anyone but he could not tolerate conversion of his brethren to either Islam or Christianity. The underlying reason for his vengeance upon Aurangzeb was the religious policy of that monarch. "
* - Referring to his victories in Karnataka.
3. This comes from the Dutch Christian missionaries. Shivaji had sacked Surat. During that sack, he spared 2 very rich merchants / Christian missionaries.
One was a very noble Christian priest and another was the family of an extremely rich humanitarian money lender who was in service of Dutch East India company. The contemporary French records are quoted in this blog. Again it is a 2 year old blog.
https://mariam-uz-zamani.blogspot.in/2015/08/did-shivaji-maharaj-really-plunder-surat.html#.WJgnqxJ2m1s
Actually, starting with Shivaji there comes a change in the method of warfare of native rulers. His policy was very simple. Tit for Tat. "If you ravage my town, then i am not going to spare your dominions either."
A fear was created in minds of his enemies that the kind of warfare they saw till now was going to be a thing of the past. They will be dealt/replied in their own language which they understand. But even here you get glimpses of humanity.
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