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Shailaja

@shailusri1983

Dazzler

+ 3

Posted: 8 years ago

#11

Some interesting discussion going on here I see between you and Prem. I will just butt in with a few simple points. There are two things we have to consider here: SEX and GENDER.

SEX is whether you are male or female or transgender. It comes with a person with birth. It is genetically acquired.

GENDER is socially acquired. We are taught how to behave as a man or woman according to socially approved and propagated models of conduct and behavior. A lot of stereotypes as ingrained into us in this process.

Just take a hypothetical case study of a girl who is brought up like a boy since her childhood and a boy who is brought up like a girl since childhood. The girl would be very assertive, affirmative, brave, outgoing, and masculine in behavior and conduct. The boy would be very shy, modest, and effeminate in his behavior and conduct. So if the upbringing of girls is similar to that of boys, they would share similar qualities and behavioral patterns.

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amina1

@amina1

Dazzler

Posted: 8 years ago

#12

I read about it in the news and how blame game was again to women they should have stayed home is not in our culture so what is our culture to be biased and pick and choose thats what our society is where i live women are very indipendent and most ofthe time scantily dressed ,i still remember all of us going out to see fire works on old year night that time nirbhayas r... Happened i cried just reading about it but my point is women were walking freely dresssed how ever they wanted yet no one paied attention and i reflect to my self look at this society . Such a shame

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deejagi

@deejagi

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 8 years ago

#13

Hi Kaana,

Sorry for being late to this post. Was busy with my FIL's health and read the post only now. Somehow I am unable post on IF. Not sure whether I will be able to send this PM also. Will post my views may be by tomorrow.

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ErisedWitch45

@ErisedWitch45

Dazzler

+ 5

Posted: 8 years ago

#14

Originally posted by: myviewprem

I think these incidents are a society problem

Watch the reaction to such incidents in Europe/US to india and Asia as a whole.

In Europe/US it takes hardly one or two years to convict and sentence are more like 20-30 years or life imprisonment for such crimes

But in india this case will take 30 years to get a conclusion(if you are lucky) or it may go on after the victim/accused dies tooo. That is biggest problem.

Great post myviewprem. I wholeheartedly agree with all your points. One of the main reasons for such incidents happening is the weak law - when perpetrators know they'll hardly face any punishment, or can get bail easily, there is no fear. I agree that the mindset needs to change - only then we'll get a full solution but I don't think this can happen overnight or in the next few years to come. A very very gradual change is what we can hope for (in the way of thinking where in women and their dresses and "western" culture is blamed) but a strong law and order, stricter punishment can go a long way in instilling fear in the hearts of people so that they think twice before trying to molest anyone or indulge in any un-lawful activity.

Originally posted by: myviewprem
Second issue is the way society reacts - if something happens to woman everyone blame her not allow her to live in peace. Its a taboo in society that girl cannot go back to studies, work or any function or step out of house everyone see her as culprit rather than accused. That is why her face is hidden so a society backlash is prevented in future.

Again true. In these gender based crime, majority of the times, there is victim blaming. What was she wearing? Why was she out so late? She must have given some signal and what not! I remember a couple of years back there was a Shakti mills case in Mumbai. The survivor didn't hide her face coz she said that why should she be ashamed? The men who did the henious crime should be ashamed. A few weeks later, I read her mother's interview wherein the mom was saying that some boys in the neighbourhood passed comments on the girl when she would go out. Those boys indulged in shaming her, making fun of her, thinking that they have a moral highground to pass judgement on her. All coz she showed her face. So how can women fight this digusting crime when a major portion of society starts poking holes in her character?

Even the reverse is true. When a male is the victim of such a crime, the comments that I have read is how he must be enjoying. This mentality works both way - a women is shamed and if it's a man, the incident is not taken seriously.

Originally posted by: myviewprem
Fifth issue is since law is weak the accused will be out on bail soon, so he may threten, attack or throw acid on victim once he is out. Or his family and friends may do that. Have you not read of so many such incidents. In US only 63% of sexual attacks are not reported by women to police. In indai this must be 90-95% for sure but no data is available. Only 5% come and report such attacks and how are they treated by law and society? That discourages other 95%

This is cent percent true. One case still fresh in my mind is of a girl in WB who complained against the men. The men were released on bail and they started threatening the girl to take the complaint back. On refusing, they started harassing her, so much so that the family moved to another city or another part of the city. But those men found about her new address and they set her on fire! when the mother and father were away. Sadly, she succumbed to her injuries.

This again highlights the need for a strong judiciary and better law and punishments.

Originally posted by: myviewprem
Hence till society and law changes no use blaming mothers for teaching daughters to be quiet or women for keeping quiet and not reporting or for not fighting. How will you fight? Its a patriarchal society and if it feels its superiority is threatened they gang up on victim. How will victim live after that? Who will support her financially? Who will marry her? Who will respect her? etc Its easy to give bashan but only a girl who has faced all this can answer how it is to live facing the whole world all alone.
What i prefer is parents and teachers must start teaching boys how to treat girls with respect. But when in house a boy sees his father disrespecting mother, elder sibling misbehaving with sister, boys getting better food, clothes, study opportunity etc its tough that person will turn into a man who respects equal rights of woman. That is why if you start teaching next generation by another 2000-3000 years woman may get equal to man.

True! Agreed with everything. Unless that mindset changes, nothing will happen and it will be a long way for the mindset to change. We think that rural people are regressive and they blame victim but I have seen so many "educated" people from urban areas who engage in victim shaming. Commenting on dress, if the girl drinks and their fav topic "western" culture.

Edited by ErisedWitch45 - 8 years ago

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deejagi

@deejagi

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 8 years ago

#15

SORRY if I hurt any one's feelings or opinion but I just laying my cards (though briefly).

One side we ask for gender equality and the other side we want security, does it make sense? Please decide on what we want... EQUALITY or SECURITY.

If you feel, you are equal to man, then what stops you to stop your attacker or a molester? Why don't you go out fully equipped for eventualities? If you open your hand bag, the most essential things your hand reaches first should be a paper knife (the one we use to open the envelops), pepper spray or few ball pins or safety pins at the least. But what we really get if we open our bags? Lipstick, mascra, moisturizer, compact powder etc. which are not going to help you. Atleast if you carry a body spray or deodorant, make use of it. Spray it directly on the guys face, aiming his eyes. btw don't tell me every one can't afford pepper spray as the girl who venture at night in most crowded areas to celebrate new year or partying can surely afford it.

If a boy try to take advantage of a girl / lady, why other girls or ladies doesn't team up and beat him? Why do we need to wait for a man to rescue the damsel? Why do we ask for police man to come and help us when we are equal to them? Beat up the guys who try to harm the girl and then let us see if the boy go and cry in front of the TV channels asking for security? Whether the Men associations go and stage dharana with candles and placards. If so atleast we can claim we are equal.

I am not saying women should not go out at night but if that can be avoided, why can't we do it? What are we trying top prove by walking into the crowd and then if get hurt howl on the society, men and the administration? The pseudo feminist who sits in a AC room of a TV channel will never venture at midnight and test the heat.

Yes, I do agree that the boys should be taught to behave with girls and despite that if they misbehave, what should a parent do? The same question the boys ask, why don't the parents teach their daughter's stay put in the nights and not get into trouble? Whom to respond? neither the boy nor the girl will listen to their parents as they feel the parents are old fashioned and doesn't understand the current day children. They try to impose them with their old ethics which are not valid in this century as if their parents belong to 15th century. Guys even your parents had their own share of youth and even they would have rebelled with their parents but they understood the reality of this society and want a better life for their kids. They are not your enemies.

One last thing, PLEASE STOP BLAMING THE GOVERNMENT AND POLICE. NO GOVERNMENT CAN ALLOT ONE POLICE TO EACH GIRL AND ENSURE THEIR SAFETY. THEY HAVE BETTER JOBS TO DO.

PLEASE MARCH INTO THE NIGHT WHEN YOU ARE CONFIDENT OF TAKING CARE OF YOUR SELF. TILL SUCH TIME, BEWARE OF TRESS PASSERS.

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ErisedWitch45

@ErisedWitch45

Dazzler

+ 5

Posted: 8 years ago

#16

Originally posted by: deejagi
One last thing, PLEASE STOP BLAMING THE GOVERNMENT AND POLICE. NO GOVERNMENT CAN ALLOT ONE POLICE TO EACH GIRL AND ENSURE THEIR SAFETY. THEY HAVE BETTER JOBS TO DO.

PLEASE MARCH INTO THE NIGHT WHEN YOU ARE CONFIDENT OF TAKING CARE OF YOUR SELF. TILL SUCH TIME, BEWARE OF TRESS PASSERS.

myviewprem has replied to max of your points so I won't be reiterating since I share his/her pov but to this I would like to say that protection of citizen IS the govt's job. If a govt and police can't provide safety and security in a democracy then there would be jungle raj all over. Criminals won't just attck you on the street, they'll barge in your homes and attack you. Govt's and judiciary's job is to make strict laws, robust punishment mechanisms which instills fear in the minds of criminals.

If a case drags on for decades, who'll take the law of that country seriously?

Also it is a very wrong observation that such crimes happen only in night when the girl is alone. Many a times crimes like this happen in broad daylight too. Today 11 Jan, 2017 at around 7pm few men tried to drag a girl inside their car in one of the most busiest areas of the city. This is just one instance.

So attributing blame on clothes and time of a survivor is silly and just a way to brush the issue off. Attribute blame to where it belongs - on such men who violate women (and children and other men).

Originally posted by: deejagi

If you feel, you are equal to man, then what stops you to stop your attacker or a molester?

Also what makes you think that those women who are caught in such situations don't fight back? This would be a very preposterous assumption. Just coz they don't/aren't able to overpower the attacker, doesn't mean they don't fight back.

Firstly such attacks are not anticipated. The human mind takes some time to register what is happening. Then they do fight back but may not win due to a lot of reasons.

No matter how and in what way we try to poke holes in the victim/survivor, but I feel the blame rests on the criminals. No one, be it a man or a woman, asks to be violated.