Jabali was one of the ministers of King Dashrath

RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#1
The show has wrongly portrayed Jabali as a despised character by the people of Ayodhya, when in reality he was one of King Dashrath's renowned nine ministers who advised him daily in the running of his kingdom. Valmiki Ramayan writes a lot about Jabali, particularly around the time of Ram's vanvaas.

Jabali (Sanskrit: ) is a character in the ancient Indian epic Ramayana. A learned Brahmin priest and an advisor of Dasaratha, he unsuccessfully tries to persuade Rama to give up his exile, using rational arguments.

Attempt to persuade Rama[edit]

In Ramayana, Rama abandons his claim to the royal throne and goes on a 14-year exile, in order to help his father keep a promise. Rama considers his decision as his dharma (righteous duty), necessary for his father's honour. In Ayodhya Khanda, Jabali accompanies Bharata to the forest, as part of a group that tries to convince Rama to give up his exile.[1]

Jabali uses nihilist reasoning to dissuade Rama from continuing the exile. He states that those give up artha (material pleasures) for the sake of dharma suffer in this life and meet extinction after their death. Showing further disbelief in the concept of afterlife, he criticizes the shraddha ritual, in which people offer food to their dead ancestors. He calls it a wastage of food, and sarcastically suggests that if food eaten by one person at a given place could nourish another person at another place, shraddha should be conducted for those going on long journeys, so they would not need to eat anything.[1] However, even after listening to the arguments of Jabali and others, Rama refuses to give up his exile and extols the virtues of following the dharma.

Rama's response[edit]

Valmiki's Ramayana contains a section that describe's Rama angrily denouncing Jabali, which includes the following verses:

Ramayana (2:109:34)[2]Translation by Ralph T. H. Griffith[3]Translation by Shyam Ranganathan[4]Translation by D. H. Rao & K. M. K. Murthy[2]




(2-109-33)

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- (2-109-34)

My father's thoughtless act I chide
That gave thee honoured place,
Whose soul, from virtue turned aside,
Is faithless, dark, and base.

We rank the Buddhist with the thief,
And all the impious crew
Who share his sinful disbelief,
And hate the right and true.
Hence never should wise kings who seek
To rule their people well,
Admit, before their face to speak,
The cursed infidel. (2-109-34)

I denounce the action mentioned below, of my father, who picked up you as his councilor-priest, a staunch unbeliever, who has not only stayed away from the path of dharma but whose mind is set on a wrong path opposed to the Vedic path, nay who is moving about in this world with such an ideology conforming to the doctrine of Chaarvaaka, who believes only in the world of senses as has been set forth in your foregoing speech.

It is a well-known fact that a follower of Buddha deserves to be punished precisely as a thief [because such a heretic robs people of their faith in a Vedically moral universe]; and know anastika to be on a par with a Buddhist.

I accuse the act done by my father in taking you into his service, you with your misleading intelligence, a firm atheist fallen from the true path. (2-109-33)

It is an exact state of the case that a mere thought deserves to be punished as it were a thief and know an atheist to be on par with a mere intellectual. Therefore he is the most suspect, and should be punished in the interest of the people. In no case should a wise man consort with an atheist. (2-109-34)

In these and subsequent verses, Rama becomes so angry that he denounces his own father for keeping Jabali as an adviser.[4] He accuses Jabali of being an atheist, and states that those following the nastika path deserve to be punished. In the subsequent verses, he emphasizes the importance of following the dharma. Jabali then retracts his statements, saying that he was merely arguing like a nihilist to convince Rama to come back, but he is not actually a nihilist.[5] Vashistha supports Jabali, stating that he was speaking in the interest of Rama.[6]

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darkchocolates thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#2
Thanks for sharing the information.
Never knew about this. Would be very interesting to watch it.
mnx12 thumbnail
Posted: 9 years ago
#3
Jabali Rishi the Hindu Saint after whom Jabalpur is named spent a number of years meditating on the banks of the river. The cave at Marble Rocks was one of his shelters.
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Posted: 9 years ago
#4
Thanks for the information😃
Arshics thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#5
I was not very happy to see jabali being shown as a rebel. Why is the story being twisted so much ? This Ramayana seems to going on a different track altogether.
Since many of our younger generation are learning about this story through this depiction, it's incorrect to change the story and its events so drastically
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Posted: 9 years ago
#6
I don't know much about Jabali. Was wondering yesterday about this character. Thanks for the info
Ramyalaxmi thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#7
Thank you Janaki for sharing the info about Jabali.
It was mentioned by famous writer Cho.Ramasamy in Hindu mahasamudram, that there were some atheist in all yugas. So I misunderstood Jabali to be one in that category. Now I think he followed advaitham.
mnx12 thumbnail
Posted: 9 years ago
#8
Jaabaali's significance in Indian culture stems from the fact that he represents an atheistic form of Hinduism, yet his work is also considered to form part of the broader cannon of Hindu writing. For these reasons, Jaabaali both symbolizes the breadth of belief that resides within the Hindu faith as well as its inherent tensions.
Krishna was not opposed to Atheism provided it did not violate Laws of Dharma. Rama strongly opposed and targets atheists as seen in Ayodhya Kanda of Ramayana, which reads "atheists (nastikavadins) are fools who think they to be wise and who are experts in leading people to doom and ruin." Dasaratha's council of priest-ministers headed by a religious authority, sage Vasishtha, included sage Jaabaaali, a materialist and atheist. Chaarvaaka philosophy of Atheism and Materialism was widely discussed within the folds of Hinduism.

Mentions in Balakanda

Then King Dasharatha said to his best minister Sumantra, "Let the Vedic scholars and ritual conductors like Sages Suyajna, Vaamadeva, Jaabaali, and Kaashyapa, along with the family priest Vashishta, as well as other Vedic Brahmans that are there, they all be invited swiftly..

Writings

Jaabaali wrote "Jabala Upanishad" and the story of Satyakaama Jaabaali from Samaveda-Chandogyopanishad. It explains about: The true form of "maatru" devata. The duties a woman has to perform before she takes up the seat of "maatru" devata. The relationship between the three (gross, subtle and causal) forms or bodies of mother and child. The true form of satya, and how satya is the first step for attaining "Brahma Vidya". The true form of "gotra"

An excerpt of Jaabaali literature explaining one of the duties a woman has to perform before she takes up the seat of "maatru" devata:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaabaali
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Posted: 9 years ago
#9

Originally posted by: mnx12

Jaabaali's significance in Indian culture stems from the fact that he represents an atheistic form of Hinduism, yet his work is also considered to form part of the broader cannon of Hindu writing. For these reasons, Jaabaali both symbolizes the breadth of belief that resides within the Hindu faith as well as its inherent tensions.
Krishna was not opposed to Atheism provided it did not violate Laws of Dharma. Rama strongly opposed and targets atheists as seen in Ayodhya Kanda of Ramayana, which reads "atheists (nastikavadins) are fools who think they to be wise and who are experts in leading people to doom and ruin." Dasaratha's council of priest-ministers headed by a religious authority, sage Vasishtha, included sage Jaabaaali, a materialist and atheist. Chaarvaaka philosophy of Atheism and Materialism was widely discussed within the folds of Hinduism.

Thanks mnx12 for sharing the info.
@blue: So I am not completely wrong, Jabali was atheist but believed paramathma and jeevathma are one. To be frank, I am confused.
@bold: Ram uttered these words in the context of answering Jabali's stimulating words. So does this mean Ram had such a view in general?
mnx12 thumbnail
Posted: 9 years ago
#10
May be rishi Jabali wanted physical presence of Brhman to see & experience. He's reached a state where external rituals doesnt matter much. So condemning ritualistic path is right according to him.
The ultimate goal of a soul in the journey is from Jeevatma to Paramatma. Where Jeevatma merges with Paramatma. If alive, the soul returns to his body. Be becomes Jeevanmukta & continues his life in guiding people or lives among people as one of them.
Rishi Jabali may have experienced this state & have believed in preaching whatever is seen, exists. Paramatma is everywhere. If Paramatma & Jeevatma are one, then there is no need of external ritualistic worship.

For @Bold, those who know more, can answer.
Edited by mnx12 - 9 years ago

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