Did they speak Hindi or Hindustani in those days?

anobserver thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#1

Ever since this series started with the claim to authenticity, I have been wondering.

During the 1940s, was Hindu or Hindustani the lingua franca in North and North West India? What was the language used by royalty in North and North West India?

The voiceover for the show "Samvidhan", a series on the making of the Constitution of India telecast on Rajya Sabha TV (and available on youtube), also uses Hindustani.

Also, would the British Regent have used the Devnagri script or the Perso-Arabic script while writing? If we peruse the records that have now been made available, Queen Victoria learnt Hindustani and her writing practice (though transcribed by her daughter) shows she didn't learn the Devnagri script.

If anyone is familiar with history of India and more particularly of the history of languages in India, please do share your insights.

This is not meant to be a divisive post on languages (Hindi v. Hindustani), but merely an attempt to ascertain historical facts from those who are better informed.

Edited by anobserver - 9 years ago

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Sarcy thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#2
This is quite an interesting discussion. I do not have much insight into this, however, a look at the Wiki page for the 'History of Hindustani' shows that Modern Hindi literature emerged during the Colonial period.

And here are two other facts that I picked up from the timeline shown there.

1949: Official Language Act makes the use of Hindi in Central Government Offices mandatory
1949-50: Hindi accepted as the "official language of the Union" in the constitution. Debates a, b, c.

I assume, that this means that during the 1940s, it was the modern day Hindi that was gaining more popularity over the traditional Hindustani. However, it didn't become official until after the British left India - which would also explain the Queen learning Hindustani.

Though someone with an academic background in this would be able to comment on it better, I believe.

Thoughts?
Padfoot_Prongs thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#3
I m confused. Hindustani is wat? I mean I used to think Hindustani is a little urduish Hindi. is it diff? 1940s Hindi was diff from present time. ETR2 people mostly use present time's hindi as far as i have seen.

In north west region, Urdu was more popular among common people. My grandfather did his education in Urdu. But royals since a long time had fascination towards Sanskritised Hindi and at the time of British Raj it was English. just a little bit i knew.


Anyone who knows about whole this thing, please enlighten us.
ananya2010 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#4
I think Hindi was in use during 1940's coz most of the movies also show Hindi in use and also agree with @Sarcy coz Hindi got the status of OL in 1949 which means Hindi was the language used during 1940s. My POV.
BertieWooster thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#5
Sharing a link of the film 'Shatranj ke khiladi'. The film was set in 1857.
Of course this was Lucknow the film was set in. But still, it might provide a good reference.




And Parineeta, wasn't that set in the early 1900s and the backdrop was an aristocratic family, even if not royalty. Don't recall the language being too different!

However, I think it is also a matter of diciton. The period feel is missing partly because of that as well!

Maybe some effort in that direction would not go amiss!

SoreThumb thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#6

Originally posted by: MissBahanji

I m confused. Hindustani is wat? I mean I used to think Hindustani is a little urduish Hindi. is it diff? 1940s Hindi was diff from present time. ETR2 people mostly use present time's hindi as far as i have seen.

In north west region, Urdu was more popular among common people. My grandfather did his education in Urdu. But royals since a long time had fascination towards Sanskritised Hindi and at the time of British Raj it was English. just a little bit i knew.


Anyone who knows about whole this thing, please enlighten us.

Hindustani was a language in itself ..before it got divided (for the lack of a better word) into Hindi and Urdu

@anobserver: from what I understand, though Hindustani continued being the official language in early 1940s, Hindi (as opposed to Hindustani) with its Sanskrit influence was increasing in popularity..but the North West part of pre -Independence India continued using Hindustani or switched to Urdu wih Persian influence

And officially the British Regent used Persian-Arabian script


A brief description:

Edited by SoreThumb - 9 years ago
soapwatcher1 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#7
http://www.britannica.com/topic/Khari-Boli


Didn't see anything about the written script - ie British using the Persian Arabic script for the written word. The spoken word was a mix of Khari Boli (dialect of the areas around Delhi and the Yamuna basin and a precursor of Hindi) mixed with Persian words which formed the crux of ancient Hindustani. Pre-partition, religious proponents on both sides in a divisive effort added both Sanskrit and Persian words thereby giving rise to current day Hindi and Urdu, post partition. 50 million speak Urdu in India today and 550 million speak Hindi.
Edited by soapwatcher1 - 9 years ago
anobserver thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#8
Ladies, thank you for your insights and for actually conducting some research on this. Very informative!

I'm afraid that I don't have the time presently to respond to each of your posts. But, I do hope to be able to do it in a day or two.

I am castigating myself for not looking this up earlier. The Gazetteers, published during the British Raj, chronicle the cultural, historical, economical and environmental (flora and fauna) aspects of the British provinces. They're a mine of information for students of history and are not fortunately available online too.

A quick perusal reveal that you ladies are right. I'm amazed at the fact that some of you looked up the movies of that era to provide a cultural reference. I hadn't thought of that! Now, even as far back as 1908, the Gazetteers chronicle that Hindi was used in the provinces in the North West provinces of present-day India, apart from other local languages. There are but a few references to Hindustani in some of these provinces.

Thanks again for your insights.
Edited by anobserver - 9 years ago
history_geek thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#9

Originally posted by: anobserver

Ever since this series started with the claim to authenticity, I have been wondering.

During the 1940s, was Hindu or Hindustani the lingua franca in North and North West India? What was the language used by royalty in North and North West India?

Hindustani is/was the lingua franca of North and NW India. Because, we speak that Hindi which contains Persian/Urdu influence due to a long Mughal rule and a common culture which developed as a result. We use some Persian words very freely in our 'Hindi'.

Actually, the difference between Hindustani and Hindi is quite bleak. Loosely speaking, Hindustani is said to consist of "Hindi" and Persian influence. By Hindi we mean, the one having more of a Sanskrit tilt, i.e., without Persian words; we can say 'Shuddh/Pure Hindi' in normal terms.

The Hindi used in Bollywood movies is actually Hindustani. In old Hindi movies, this was more clear. Most of the words drawn were of Persian origin, meaning Hindustani.

From my experience, i have seen people from Madhya Pradesh( Indore belt ) speaking in a manner which has very less influence of Urdu. Hence, that is 'more close' to 'Hindi' , than Hindustani.

Like...The Hindi term for the word friend is "mitra" , which seems more close to Sanskrit. But the Hindustani version will say "dost". We hardly notice that many speak Hindustani, not Hindi.

About royalty...

Since this show is about a family of Ranas of Umerkot. So i am supposing this question has more to do with Rajasthan Sindh area. So, i am starting with them only.

If we see the records of erstwhile princely states of Rajasthan, let us say, of 16th and 17th centuries, we find a great influence of Sanskrit in court records. This changed slowly.

Court records of 18th century onwards show that Persian words were increasingly being used in conversation. Although, the script used was Dev-Nagari, but a large numbers of words used were Persian.

This would mean we were moving towards "Hindustani", though the script was Dev-Nagari only. For example : The one who held a fort was earlier called Kotpal according to ancient terminology. Now, under Persian influence it became Kotwal.

This was about the royalty in Rajasthan area.

But, if we talk about the Delhi area then here we would have a more heavy influence of Persian in 'Hindustani'. Same was the case with Lucknow area. So, it all changes from place to place. Persian had good influence in Punjab area too.

So, royalties spoke Hindustani, but the degree of Persian usage was different depending upon the area they belonged to. Many of them are known to have proficiency in English too as time passed. Boundaries of languages were getting blurred with their mixing up.

The voiceover for the show "Samvidhan", a series on the making of the Constitution of India telecast on Rajya Sabha TV (and available on youtube), also uses Hindustani.

Also, would the British Regent have used the Devnagri script or the Perso-Arabic script while writing? If we peruse the records that have now been made available, Queen Victoria learnt Hindustani and her writing practice (though transcribed by her daughter) shows she didn't learn the Devnagri script.

Evidence of some letters of 19th century written by British regents show that they could easily use Dev-Nagari. I have read the contents of letters of the Jaipur Queens sent to British officials regarding state transactions in 1810s, 1830s, etc. Both the parties exchanged letters in Dev Nagari script. Possibly scribes were used here. This would have continued in future also as far as i feel.

At the same time, we have letters exchanged in Persian. There was a post of "Persian Secretary" in the British Govt of India. But use of Persian script was more in vogue when they dealt with courts in Delhi area, since the correspondence / documents of those rulers were in Persian. Persian influence was already on decline, and suffered a blow, with the dismantling of various dynasties after 1857-58, since no court patronage was offered thereafter.

I feel they used different script according to the dynasty they conversed with, and there were recruitments made for this purpose of conversing with the royalty. Some of the British officers knew Persian and DevNagari script as well.

If anyone is familiar with history of India and more particularly of the history of languages in India, please do share your insights.

This is not meant to be a divisive post on languages (Hindi v. Hindustani), but merely an attempt to ascertain historical facts from those who are better informed.



I am writing some views in brief. Just my understanding based on readings.
In blue above. Hope it is helpful.

MrsAkyurek thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#10

Originally posted by: history_geek



I am writing some views in brief. Just my understanding based on readings.
In blue above. Hope it is helpful.


Thanks for posting about the query in detail, Abhay!

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