Jodha Akbar discussion corner! - Page 8

Originally posted by: Sandhya.A

Khushi

i am not able to shake off the buddhuram image, so watching the smart sauve handsome Jalal doesn't excite me the way it did last time.

Perhaps that is why it is said, if you know what is to come in future your present becomes miserable.😕

true sandhya😕..but just try and focus on rajat's acting!

Originally posted by: jayaks02

Very nice analysis - Liked the special bit about Bairam Khan b'coz he was absolutely fantastic throughout his stay in JA.

jaya, one of the finest actors i have seen so far!

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Mandy, I have given this some thought and I feel that we are best off exactly as we are.

In the main Jodha Akbar Zee forum, no one will be interested in posts on the re-run episodes. In the Zee Anmol forum, standalone episodes will be lost in the clutter of threads on all sorts of serials all clubbed together.

So I would want to stay as we are, and try and build up some kind of steady readership of about 50 people.

And yes, as suggested by Donjas and as I had told Shreya, I will make slight changes and add things to my old posts before putting them up, as suggested by a second viewing. This would of course be for the posts after that for Episode 9.

Shyamala

👍🏼

munni, excellent pics👍🏼

Originally posted by: Coolpree

Hello Shyamala, thanks for the pm. So glad to see that you are well enough to write again.

I had no intention of re watching all the previous episodes. However your lovely description of the "soul talk" sent me right back to my computer and I watched the beginning "soul talk" which was mesmerizing. Jalal's voice was amazingly tender. Sorry I could not muster enough interest to watch the rest of the episode because I really did not find the first week or so of JA that interesting. My interest really peaked after Jalal goes to Amer in disguise.

About the comment about Jodha and Jalal not being shown as soul mates in this show...I have to agree with both you and sp108. However the only time in this show where I felt they were soul mates was during their soul talks and the episode after Hassan's death.

Shyamala , you must go to Sikandra. Akbar's tomb exemplifies what he stood for: it is a wonderful amalgamation of Islamic, Hindu, and Buddhist design. In fact the multiple chattri's in the rear of his tomb resemble a fort in the Rajputana rather than a Mughal Emperor's tomb. It saddens me that more people visit Itmatudaulah's tomb due to its proximity to the Taj than the resting place of one of the greatest monarchs of India.

I would like to add a small snippet to what Ela said about MUZ tomb. It lies exactly 1km south-west of Akbar's tomb. What's interesting is that Nur Jehan also positioned her tomb exactly 1 km south west of Jehangir's tomb exactly like the location of MUZ's tomb w.r.t Akbar's tomb. These are the only two examples in Mughal architecture where the Emperor and his chief consort are buried in this relationship each other. The tombs were intended to be connected by gardens. Sadly the gardens around Nur Jehan's tomb have dissapeared due to encroachement and her tomb now lies in ruins😭. Muz tomb has a surviving garden, but her tomb was used as a printing press by British missionaries and has also it's former splendour😭

Sure Mandy...Would love to meet you dear...and welcome to India..

Jodha Akbar 2: Violence tactical, violence strategic

Folks,

This episode falls neatly into 3 parts: Jodha's shapath, l'affaire jootis, and the Jalal-Sharifuddin exchange.

I disliked it as a case of sustained overkill the first time I watched it. Om Puri having been cashiered by then, the burden of strengthening the Jalal as Jallad leit motif fell squarely on Jalal. And he went at it with vim and vigour, to the considerable detriment, on June 19, 2013, of the enamel of my teeth! Indeed, at times, the almost maniacal gleam in his deep set eyes reminded one of the Roman Emperor Caligula, always teetering on the edge of insanity (he was the one in the film Gladiator, and if you have seen it, you will understand what I mean).

Now, while that reservation still lingers, I can see method in what looked are first sight like Jalal's madness. For him, at this stage of the proceedings, this exaggerated edginess is deliberate and calibrated, not insensate rage or violence spinning out of control.

Nor is it sadism, ie pleasure in inflicting pain on another. It is purely and simply a calculated means to a desired end. It is the same whether it is the jooti chor at the receiving end, or his subedar Sharifuddin. But let us take the former first.

L'affaire de jootis: The opening shot in this sequence, of Jalal and Bairam Khan riding thru the streets, is very well taken and decidedly striking. Jalal rides with easy grace, almost a part of his mount, shamsheer in his left hand while he controls the reins with his right.

In the masjid, the stillness in his face as he does the namaz contrasts with his habitual, cynical, half sneer. He seems to be quite another man when communing with the Almighty.

Even as he emerges from the prayer hall and finds his jootis gone, the face is still, and the eyes are cold but clear. But it is the stillness of a rising anger that even the quips of his favourite Abdul (and what a special pleasure to see him again! Abdul, I have missed you so, far, far more than the original Motibai!) - Kehte hain ki jootiyon ke saath buri bhala chali jaati hai- fail to quell. Wo balaa bhi hamari hi thi. Koyi hamse hamari cheez bina pooche le jai, yeh humein manzoor nahin...phir chahe wo hamari jaan ho ya hamari joothi..

Violence tactical: Now we see what I meant by calculated edginess. I suppose Jalal did apply itr to his feet, but the tactic he uses would have been equally effective even if he had not done so. The point was not to smell the hands and feet of potential thieves, but to make the man betray himself by sniffing at his own hands. And Jalal pounces on the hapless chap, and offers the jootis in return for the truth. Agar jhoot, to zubaan meri.

The tactical violence of his khanjar at the chap's throat works, and belying his Khan Baba's pessimism, the jhootis appear. And Jalal laughs, his trademark, terrifying laughter. He tosses them back at the thief, but claims his feet in return.

Standard punishment: Now, there has been lot of alarm and disgust here about this brutal medieval punishment that Jalal metes out . This is understandable given our modern sensibilities, but it is uncalled for. In those days, such punishments for theft were routine, and even today, in Saudi Arabia, the sentence for theft, legal and codified, is to have the hands of the thief surgically amputated. At least Jalal does not cut off the chap's hands, and he is better off for leading his life with no feet than with no hands!

NB: Where on earth does that guillotine turn up from? It almost looked as if Jalal and Bairam Khan were lugging it around as standard equipment for such eventualities😉! Why not chop his feet off with a swipe of a trusty shamsheer?

Violence strategic: Be that as it may, Jalal sees the whole incident as part of a well thought out strategy, of undermining any and all opposition to him and his rule by spreading the khauf-e-Jalal as far and as fast as possible. He makes an example of the joothi chor not just to prevent further thefts, but to make the common folk in the areas he seeks to conquer, and their rulers, fear him as an article of faith.

That the spreading of such a reputation of heartless brutality is an effective political tool was proven earlier in the episode, when the Ameri soldier, talking to Jodha at the Kali Ma mandir, and Bharmal talking to Mainavati at the Amer palace, reinforce each other like a jugalbandi which ends up making Jalal out to be a kind of ruthless, all-conquering, invincible force of nature.

Soldier:Use koyi nahin rok sakta..

Bharmal: Jalal ki shamsheer hawaon ko kaat sakti hai..Use kisi baat ka dar nahin, ne maut ka, na jahannum ka, na qayamat ka ( a very strange lapse into pure Urdu!) ..

Soldier: Uski nazar mein jeevan ka koyi mulya nahin.. maut ka farishta hai wo..

Bharmal: Uski mitti shaitan ne buni hai.. Uske seene mein dil hi nahin hai..

And now the punch line: Kayi rajaon ne us se bina lade hi ghutne tekh diye..

So you see the advantages of this cleverly applied tactical and strategic violence - real and psychological - calculated to make Jalal feared to an inordinate degree. Whether all that is attributed to Jalal is true or not, whether he is really so omnipotent or not, is besides the point. All that counts is that he is believed to be so.

Given this level of fear, which has effectively reduced a (presumably) veer yoddha like Bharmal (please disregard the excess avoirdupois around his midriff!) to a mass of quivering jelly, calling out to the Almighty to send him a savior who could defeat Jalal, and scaring his wife to death in the process, why need Shahenshah Jalaluddin Muhammad fight at all?

Even if he had to, this fear in the minds of his opponents was probably, as weapon against them, worth a whole lot of soldiers! This is psywar, circa the 16^th century.

The shapath: I had thought this too to be grossly overdone, but this time around, I realized that the very OTT quality of Jodha's reaction is really a cover up for her helplessness in the face of the twin outrage: the desecration of Kali Ma's shrine, and Motibai's attempt to immolate herself fearing rejection and disgrace.

Jodha does not question the physical weakness of her femininity, but she seeks to make up for it by the ferocity of her shapath, the apparent impossibility of which is both an extra spur action and a salve to her badly bruised psyche. In her cold, determined rage, Jodha, in the alternating shots of her and her bete noire, seems more natural than Jalal with his trademark half sneer.

The siren song: Jalal is in fact busy setting out his goals for Rajasthan. Yahan ke har zarre par hamara haq hoga.. Yahan ki mitti, yahan ka sona, yahan ki khoobsoorti.. sab hamara.

And then the indefinable pull on his whole being: Suna aapne, Khan Baba? Yeh Amer humein pukar raha hai!

Soon he will be off, in defiance of his Khan Baba's express instructions, and will launch himself on a very dangerous voyage to the heart of the enemy's territory, all in response to the call of Amer and of the Registan ki Gulab. Only, unlike the unfortunate Greek sailors lured to their doom by the song of the Sirens, apna Jalal will emerge triumphant from this mad adventure, watched over by his kismet!

Violence tactical: Sharifuddin: In this closing segment, everything that Jalal does is calculated to, firstly, make sure his subordinate is always kept off balance, never sure if he is trusted, and thus does not dare to take the slightest liberty with his lord and master. Ghulam sawaal nahin poochte, Sharifuddin, sirf baja farmate hain..At which Bairam Khan, normally distant and unreadable, casts an approving sideways glance at his pupil.

Secondly, to impress upon him that an emperor who seeks to write his own destiny with his shamsheer must never, ever let the control of his affairs slip from his own hands. So Sharifuddin, like his other subordinates, need never hope to take advantage of even an instant of such slackness from his emperor.

The whole spiel of forcing Sharifuddin to taste the meat personally before Jalal will eat it is meant to drive home the same point: Jalal trusts no one, and Jalal will ensure that he is both implicitly obeyed and feared. Hum hukum ki tameel chahte hain, tumhara jawab nahin...Bairam Khan looks on, amused and approving.

Then, Waqayi lazeez hai yeh (the grapes), par agar wo tumhare halak se nahin utarta, to tumhara halak abhi si waqt zameen par hota! One could hardly make a point more bluntly than this! No wonder Sharifuddin's face is ashen, even as Abdul smiles from the other side.

Finally, Hum Shahenshah se pehle ek yoddha hain. Aur ek yoddha kabhi apne dushman ko sambhalne ka mauka nahin deta.. Aur hum idhar isi tayyari ke saath aaye hain ki use tayyar hone ka mauka hi na mile..

The tactical code of action for Jalaluddin Muhammad could not have been put more succinctly, and the gleam in Jalal's eyes is matched by that in his Khan Baba's.

The prophecy: I have nothing to say about the OTT goings on between Shaguni Bai (with a strangely unlined and youthful face under all that junk of beads and scatty hair) and the hyperventilating Mynavati. Suffice it to see that they vy for the top spot for overacting.

There are two curious points. One, Mynavati calls one of the ladies standing around her jethani, which means the wife of Bharmal's elder brother. But she is not in white and is all decked up, so she cannot be a widow. If so , how come it is not her husband who is the Raja of Amer?

Two, Shaguni Bai seems to have left all her cowries behind when she sashays out, having reduced Mynavati to a hysterical fit of impotent rage. Mynavati later casts the whole lot down from the terrace. Does this mean that Shaguni Bai has an inexhaustible supply of the charmed cowries?

Caveat: I am going to do all these early posts as if I was still at the beginning of the show, without the foreknowledge that comes from a second viewing. Without this mental discipline, one cannot possibly enjoy them, as one would be overcome by depression at the thought of what is to come halfway down the tale. I hope you agree with me. Sandhya, Khushi, are you listening?

Ok, folks, this is it for today. It was not so bad after all, was it, Lavanya? And even if Jalal's sneer does not please you now, possess your soul in patience. Soon, very soon, he will be a D'Artagnan, face alight with bold, rakish glee as he catches his first glimpse of his Nemesis!😉

See you tomorrow!

Shyamala/Aunty/Akka/Di

Khushi dear,

You have to learn to insulate yourself from what is to come halfway down the road, otherwise you will work yourself into a state of depression all too soon! There will then be no point at all in my doing these posts.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: ---Khushi---

Thank you so much, Preeti, and of course Lavanya too, for all this info.

I agree with you about the architechture of Akbar's mausoleum at Sikandra, Preeti, he must have designed it himself in advance, like the Pharaohs of Egypt with their pyramids. I am afraid I am unlikely to go anywhere out of Pune for the foreseeable future, for my mother is a serious cardiac patient, and for the last 4 years since she fell ill, I have never left Pune even for a day. Still, if it is in my stars, I shall make the pilgrimage one day, for it will be a true pilgrimage. I am so glad that despite the vandalism by the Jats in the 18th century, it has been so well restored and preserved.

As for my posts for the first 9 episodes that I had not covered the first time around, I intend to keep PMing you, to see if I can tempt you to come on board, starting with my retake on Episode 2 above!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: Sabdabhala

WANTED TO ADD ANOTHER SMALL BIT OF INFO, ALBEIT UNRELATED

WHEN YOU ENTER AGRA XITY THROUGH THE EXPRESSWAY, MUCH BEFORE THE TAJ MAHAL, WHICH OF COURAE, EVERYONE VISTS, THERE IS A TOMB CALLED

ITIMAD UD DAULAH

IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE TOMB OF NOOR JEHAN'S FATHER

I HAVE VISITED SIKANDRA, TAJ FATEHPUR ETC SEVERAL TIMES, BUT I VISITED ITIMAD UD DAULAH FOR THE FIRST TIME DURING MY LAST VISIT

THE TOMB IS SMALL BUT MAGNIFICIENTLY MADE. SUCH BEAUTIFUL INTRICATE DESIGNS ON MARBLE. IT IS SAID THAT NOOR JEHAN HERSELF EMBROIDERED DESIGNS OF CLOTH, WHCIH WERE COPIED BY THE CRAFTSMEN

WHOEVER VISITS AGRA NEXT SHOULD DEF SPEND SOME TIME AND CISIT ITIMAD UD DAULAH

ITS NOT THAT CROWDED AND WONT TAKEMUCH TIME. BUT I AM SURE ALL OF U WOULD ENJOY IT

My dear Gargi,

So this is your latest incarnation? What a fickle child you are! I simply cannot keep track of your fast changing ids!😉 I actually thought you were SHADES OF NATURE, and addressed her as Gargi, poor thing, and she was too polite to contradict me!

I am very pleased to have you back with me, and do argue your points as vigorously as you did the first time around. My own take on Episode 2 has been modified since June 19, 2013, as you can see from my latest post on the pre-page.

As for my affection for you, my dear, that will never change, regardless of how our respective views clash. I shall in fact be quite upset if you did not stick with me on this thread till I continue writing here.

As for my knee dear, it is as dicey as ever, and these posts help take my mind off it for a bit. I hope you are doing very well with your hospital work.

Affectionately,

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: AnnaPaquinFan

@ Shyamala auntie, wonderful take on the first episode, absolutely delighted to have you back among us ! 👏 I confess you made me nostalgic.😳

I'm not watching the show in ZEE Anmol , I didn't even know about the repeat telecasting, but reading your post , aroused in me me very strong emotions and I'm rushing back to watch the 1st episode of JA .😳

I also confess that I watched the beginning episodes till Ganghour only for Paridhi's Jodha, Jalal used to actually repulse me with his overdone eye make up , which was no fault of his I admit , ( but it was very annoying for me for some reason ) and what I consider as very poor direction in his scenes ( again no fault of RT) , but I found Paridhi's Jodha very refreshingly beautiful n her very picture of classic sheen n elegance, even in those very bad costumes . I used to really love her bonding with Sujamal. Jalal started capturing my interest from Gangaur onwards. Classic royal Rajput look suits RT very much .

I agree with you in totally, on what you said about Naved Ji's Bairam Khan. Absolutely delightful to watch. He had natural creepiness. 😉

I'm going to read other reviews on this thread,n try o take part in discussion, though nowadays due to grilling hospital duties, I've very little free time.

I still remember my 1st comment in your thread, fiercely defending Jodha , and for which , though our views were of contradictory type, I received your compliments and eventually managed to secure your affection even. And I hope that tradition continues. Our views will always contradict to some extent , but that's exactly why I love reading your views, it's gives me a high to read opposite views, laid down so beautifully as yours , and contemplate over them n even some times, look at a thing from an altogether different perspective.

Hope you won't deprive me from the pleasure of reading your analyses . Forgive me for any typing errors, currently OL from mobile.

Take care of your health m'aam. 😳

with regards. Gargi.