Why do conservative moslems come to western countries?

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Antlers

@Antlers

Sparkler

Posted: 10 years ago

Why do conservative Muslims come here, or stay here, if they disdain everything about our religious freedoms, democratic values and culture?

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Shahid Ashrif

@Deepthought

Explorer

Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: Antlers
Why do conservative Muslims come here, or stay here, if they disdain everything about our religious freedoms, democratic values and culture?

The motivation for migration is the same the world over: economic or political (or even a combination of both.)

The vast majority of 'Muslim' migrants to the UK took place between mid-60s and mid-80s. They were largely economic migrants, seeking a better life. The Mirpuris came in numbers because of the effect of the building of the Mangla dam back in Mirpur district. There was also significant numbers of migrants from East Africa due to the Africanisation programme and persecution of East African Asians, many of whom were British passport holders. The UK government only permitted them entry reluctantly even though they were UK passport holders and when the UK government failed to convince India to take these migrants. (Why should India give refuge to UK passport holders when the responsibility for them lay with the UK government.) This largelyGujarati population from East Africa had Muslims and Hindus among them, A significant number of them settled in Leicester giving the town a whole new lease of life.

Since then there have been refugees and asylum seekers coming to the UK due to wars, some in the Middle East, or parts of Africa. Some of these refugees/asylum seekers were Muslim.

It is not so easy to label any religious group as conservative or liberal. It depends on the position/values of the 'definer'/user of such terms as conservative or liberal. In reality in any faith community not only is there a diversity of views, but values may vary from one generation to the next. Furthermore any one individual may have 'conservative' values/attitudes on one aspect but 'liberal' on others.

Islam does clearly teach Muslims to respect the laws of the country in which they reside. But then again, how many people follow what are supposedly clear messages in their (own) religion? If people break the law, they need to be prosecuted as per due process in that country. However in a democracy, different views can be aired. There have been anarchists living in the UK more more than a century and a half. Those people do not believe in the values of the UK and would do away with the government. There have been fascists in the UK in the past (since the 1960s) and there are still some around, often in the guise of rightwing racist parties, BNP, EDL etc. who not only vilify but also attack Black/minority communities, and more recentll, Muslim communities.

All of the above is easily accessible information and much of it can even be found in UK government official publication.

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Really whats the point

@Unhinged

Inactive

Posted: 10 years ago

Quick response to this without making it a religious topic. If you cant respect and abide by the local rules, you need to pack that bag and go back to where you come from. But imagine this it has happened several times in history, Its just how much population you have and how influential you can become by ruthlessly taking over the land.

This applies to people who come to India from neighboring countries and Indians who go to other countries. Like for example Tamils who went to Sri Lanka and want a Tamil state. Like Bangladeshis who slipped into India and eat from India and think they have rights. Like middle eastern people who go to western countries as refugees and then want to setup Muslim laws in west and follow sharia law and genital mutiliation and child marriages. Like whites who occupied north America and pushed native Indians into reservations. Like whites again who occupied Australia and pushed aboriginals into wilderness.

Its happened before and will keep happening.

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1047050

Suspended

Posted: 10 years ago

benefits.

But illegal immigrants from Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Iraq etc really have little choice when NATO forces are bombing their countries and France is still looting Africa.

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Really whats the point

@Unhinged

Inactive

Posted: 10 years ago

IMO Indian Muslims or at least the ones i know are not as conservative as middle eastern ones. Of course there are nut cases every where. They don't have to be Muslims, I know lot of Hindus who are conservative. There is this family who used to be my neighbors. There are BAPS don't know if you heard of them. I have not seen any one more conservative then these lot. Not the least I know Christian conservatives who are extreme too. So don't just say Muslims, it can be any one who falls in to that conservative bucket.

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sudesh kumar

@qwertyesque

Rocker

Posted: 10 years ago

to go to strip clubs and make money

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Shahid Ashrif

@Deepthought

Explorer

Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: qwertyesque
to go to strip clubs and make money

What that a response to the previous post on the subject?

Despite the fact that some people wear their religion on their sleeve, there are large disparities between their actual behaviour and what values they claim to subscribe to. prostitution is common across the Indian subcontinent and Pakistan's brothels have a thriving trade. Are Muslim women not servicing the needs of Muslim men enagaged in 'non-Islamic' activities. The Arabs have historically and still do find ways to rationalise their sexual liaisons.

So we have all this malarky about Indian societal/moral values and yet we have prostitution (male and female), rape, sexual explpoitation of children, and incest etc.

My own view is that in most cases religion is just the background wallpaper of our lived lives. In by far the majority of cases, religion is a given - that is, we are born into a particular faith community and have or exercise little choice in the religion we hold but generally assume it is better than other faiths.

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Really whats the point

@Unhinged

Inactive

Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: Deepthought
My own view is that in most cases religion is just the background wallpaper of our lived lives. In by far the majority of cases, religion is a given - that is, we are born into a particular faith community and have or exercise little choice in the religion we hold but generally assume it is better than other faiths.

It is fine if we think ones own religion is better than others, but the problem starts when you start persecuting and go as far as killing some one for being from different religion.

Havent we seen this scenario before from dark ages crusaders and Spanish inquisitions to current day genocides in the name of religion.

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Shahid Ashrif

@Deepthought

Explorer

Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: Unhinged

It is fine if we think ones own religion is better than others, but the problem starts when you start persecuting and go as far as killing some one for being from different religion.

Havent we seen this scenario before from dark ages crusaders and Spanish inquisitions to current day genocides in the name of religion.

I don't disagree with anything you're saying.

I nailed my colours to the mast way back in the late 1990s by defending on the BBC, Salman Rushdie's right to publish his Satanic Verses, despite the death threats i received.

I continue to speak out and condemn those who kill, or encourage others to, in the name of religion. And sometimes that involves challenging the disingenuous attitude of some Christians who make out that the behaviour of Muslims is some ways unique. As you have pointed out, it isn't. In Sri Lanka, Buddhist monks were very much involved in whipping up hatred towards the Tamils, and in Burma, the same is happening.

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Why do conservative moslems come to western countries?

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