Dumbledore never planned Harry’s death

lucky_lakshmi thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#1

😊

hey guys...😊

the last many days we have been discussing many theories of the Elder Wand, Dumbledore's Plan and stuff.

his is not a new theory abt anything...But I gathered this one from all that we have discussed the last many days.😃

First, lets begin with a part of Voldemort's soul being blasted n attached into Harry without Voldemort realizing it. When Voldemort disappeared, Dumbledore didn't know that a pat of his soul was in Harry right?

Then in book2, when DD says "he transferred some of his powers to you", I am quite sure he had begun suspecting the same.

N then in The Goblet Of Fire, two things happened which Made DD realize and confirm his doubts

    Voldemort forcibly took Harry's blood. N this wasn't just like "blood relatives". He took Harry's blood which is protected by Lily's sacred Sacrifice, Thereby making sure that neither can kill each other due to the blood running thru their veins. He made sure Lily's sacrifice lives on and thus he and Harry cannot kill one another. N Dumbledore realized it when Harry explained how Voldemort had really come back to life. n by doing this, he made certain that his last hope of living will live on as Harry CANNOT kill him.
  • The connection between Harry's and Voldemort wand. Their wands were already twins but with that act in the graveyard, some powers of Voldemort's wand were imbibed into Harry's. Dumbledore wasn't sure abt that but did seem to come to a vague conclusion abt the doubled bonding now.

But lets not consider the second conclusion now coz that isn't so important here.

Dumbledore realized that if and Only if Voldemort tries to kill Harry, Harry will be tethered to life. Such was the connection between them now.

N then lets jump back to the Deathly Hallows. Here in "Prince's Tale", Dumbledore tells Snape that as long as Harry lives, Voldmeort will live. Then Snape is the person who says "The boy must die?" Dumbledore just says that it is essential that Voldmeort must do it. "Essential" as he has already figured out that due to the blood-bond between Harry and Voldemort, neither can finish off one another.

n then he explains to Snape that 'when the right time presents itself, Harry will have set all matters right and when he walks towards his death, Voldemort will be finished once and for all.'---not quite the phrase but more or less, this is the meaning.

Snape by this time had gotten really angry and shouts at DD that he has brought up Harry only to slaughter him as a pig at the end... (N DD doesn't reply or give justification.)

But was it really Dumbledore's intention?

No...Or I dont think so.

Bcoz he tells Snape to tell Harry what has to be done only when Nagini is kept under protection. ie: Harry will know that he has to finish off Nagini and present himself to death(which will not occur from Voldemort hands)

N then when the part of Voldemort in Harry will die, Voldmeort will again be a mortal. But who will finish him? Let's say---Snape? Ron Heermione? I dont think so...

Coz:

  • Obviously u can't consider Dumbledore to be a fool enough to think that Snape won't die right? Coz if by any chance Voldemort recognizes that he is a spy (fat chance though) or due to any other reason*(say...someone fighting Voldemort wont mind killing a Death Eater right?! Especially that Death Eater who is this "Traitor" and Coward" who killed Albus Dumbledore?!)Though yes, in all fairness, he didn't Plan Snape's Death and never would coz Severus Snape is loyalty and bravery personified and he would ever kill off that man who lived to protect the son of the woman he loved...DD understood love very well right?

But that doesn't mean he underestimated the danger Snape was in.

  • N secondly: Ron or Hermione. AS much as they love Harry and as brilliant as Hermione as, I am sure Dumbledore never counted them to KILL Voldemort. Coz they cannot! He knew they can't. As much as "mental" or "Cracked" Dumbledore may be, it wud be foolish to think they will do it!

Especially when they don't know anything of the plan at all!

Only Harry CAN finish Voldemort. Remember his last words to Kingsley and Lupin..."Harry is our last hope. Trust him"

I wud say Dumbledore knew that Harry is the ONLY hope now that DD is dead.

He knew that Harry will choose to go back and fight for the worthy goal of saving the ppl from Voldemort rather than "Go On..."

U may think I am overlooking the fact that DD never intended to pass the Elder Wand to Harry.

Yes he never did and there is absolutely NO CHANCE that he foresaw Draco becuming the master and then Harry overpowering him...Nothing of that sort.

Well why did Harry COME BACK when Voldemort tried to kill him? He had gone to soem place and he could CHOOSE whether to "go on with Dumbledore" or "Come back and fight for the greater good" right? Dumbledore says that it's his choice whether to go on or go back....

The ugly child in King's Cross also wanted to go back but couldn't go back coz its evil. The fact that Harry is all good and sacrificed himself for the world made all the difference. Bcoz of his goodness, Harry returned. N bcoz Voldemort's soul has NO GOODNESS in it, he couldnt return.

N then after he comes back, if Voldemort tries to kill Harry again., Harry wont die coz of the same reason he came back b4.

On the other Hand, (Using any wand) if Harry tries to kill Voldemort, HE WILL DIE. This is bcoz he gets transported to that place between life and death just like Harry was. But here, unlike Harry, he hasn't a choice coz of the unspeakable evils he committed in life. The world could do without him. He CANNOT return coz he has nothing good in him. That way he dies.

I think this is the way Dumbledore planned it.

But the last part of his plan ( to die undefeated as the last maste of the EW) didnt work out. It went haywire but the ALL the better

Which is why, when Voldemort says that "Dumbledore last plan backfired", Harry says "it has backfired on you"...That means that, even though he has the Elder Wand with him now, its all the better for Harry coz, now:

    If Harry isn't the owner of the Elder Wand(According to DD's plan): If Harry does AK on him, he will die anyway as according to DD's plan. N if he does AK on Harry, Harry won't die coz of the reason he returned b4. But Harry and Riddle are different and so the case is different for both.
  • What really happened(as Harry became the owner accidentally): n if HE DOES AK b4 Harry can, then the Elder Wand, which will NOT attack its master, will rebound the spell on Voldy itself and he will be killed by himself

Of course, even though the EW part wasn't in DD's plan, I guess it all came down to finishing of Tom Riddle.

N I think it was elegantly done by JK Rowling. Coz whatever be, however dumb and foolishly complacent Voldemort was, He was damn skilled---The reason why Dumbledore always respected him. N Jo did well by killing Voldemort by himself and not making it seem like he was defeated(VIRTUALLY) by Harry though it did come down to this that he was defeated by DD's brains, Harry's good heart, Snape's Bravery and the valiant fight put up by anti-Voldemorters and of course his own acts of evil....

For those of you who did persevere n read thru this say--- frustratingly boring theory, do u think I did get it right or am I going too gaga looking for clues in the book abt Dumbledore "grand" plan!?😆😳

Edited by lucky_lakshmi - 17 years ago

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-Krupa- thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#2
Gosh!..you guys & your theories!..hehe..well, maybe that wasn't how DD planned it..but it still ended naa?
lucky_lakshmi thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#3
Lol...
But I think we are messing up DD's plan..I was juss tryin to make it a bit clear at least to myself 😳
Anant_lover thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#4
wow lakshmi u went all out!!!! 👏 gr8 job.....i read the whole thing and u did a brilliant job 👏
Eloquent thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#5
Well, I don't think that DD never went through a period where he didn't consider Harry's death.

I think he knew or suspected about Voldemort's Horcrux (singular, I think DD thought Voldemort had made only one at that time) right in the First War itself. Because he says to Snape(when he charges him with protecting Harry): Voldemort will be back. Harry Potter must be kept safe.

Then when that tragic scene occured on 31st Oct, 1981, DD suspected about Harry being an accidental Horcrux. Maybe, he thought, at the time, that Harry was the only Horcrux..that Voldemort had been intending to make his first Horcrux with Harry's death...

But, I think, Dumbledore knew, from PS/SS to GoF, tat Harry would, ultimately have to lay down his life, for LV to get finished. I think, he considered Harry's death as a very sure thing and feared to tell Harry about it. He says a line in OotP: What did I care if faceless, nameless people died in the distant future, if you, Harry, were safe?

Don't you think, DD's talking about feeling guilty(before GoF) about knowing the fact that Harry had to die.

Then, GoF, went and changed all of that and gave DD hope..hope that Harry would live. And he planned accordingly.

But, I believe, he envisioned Harry's death during the first our books, and felt sad for the boy and so he became attached to Harry and came to love him...as he hadn't done after being estranged from his own family!
lucky_lakshmi thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#6

Originally posted by: xMarauderx

Well, I don't think that DD never went through a period where he didn't consider Harry's death.

yess I too think he first thought Harry will have to die. But I guess he did at last finalise that Bcoz of Voldemort's insistance that he should be the one who will kill Harry, DD knew that he will want that at any cost, I guess Dumbledore understood that Harry stands a chance if Voldy tries to kill him. acoording to his plan, Harry WILL NOT die...(against the common notion that he will die according to DD's plan)

everything (Voldy tring to kill Harry) had gone according to Dumbledore's plan..everything except the passing of the Elder Wand...which was all the better and backfired on Voldmeort himself

Edited by lucky_lakshmi - 17 years ago
lucky_lakshmi thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#7

Originally posted by: Abhi rocks...

wow lakshmi u went all out!!!! 👏 gr8 job.....i read the whole thing and u did a brilliant job 👏

awwww.....thanks soo much yaar..thats really sweet of u😳

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