Jodha-Akbar | Soul Vs. Intellect | Updated 22/8.|.2 Posts on Pg-10,11. - Page 7

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

Was Jalal right in testing Jodha thus?

Perhaps tomorrow we may know why Jalal did not take Jodha into confidence and more importantly, why he humiliated her so much instead of just remaining quiet.

Today's episode seems to indicate that the whole palace was controlled by Maham. And therefore Jalal could not take anyone into confidence. It was a piquant situation for Jalal. If this drama had to be shown, how I wish Jalal (and Jodha) had been spared those unutterable dialogs! He could easily use Khyber as an excuse to apparently mistrust her and thus withdraw from her and into the arms of Atifa.

(If his guilt pangs could not be shown for fear of blowing away his cover, at least he could have been spared the "Why am I falling for Atifa" self-talk. )

Was Jalal so sure of Jodha's mental strength and faith in him that he could unleash the furies on her and expect her not to get blown away?

I am trying to think differently here. It is pretty easy for a guy pretending to be angry with someone and feeling guilty and miserable about it inside, to become hyper and react like a coiled spring being let loose.

Because he didn't know how to pretend with Jodha, without her catching him, he went overboard and swung to the other extreme. Once we start off on an emotional roller coaster, even though we know something is wrong, we are unable to stop ourselves on our own.

I am not justifying Jalal. Just trying to understand why he behaved like that with Jodha, when he loves her so much. (The very latest proof being his complete acceptance of her after the Khyber kidnap.. ) What he said to her or shouted to his children cannot be condoned.

But if we see:

Jalal got caught in the whirlwind of his own drama and only managed to come out of it when he realized that he had gone so far that the very life he wanted to protect could go away from him. His use of talaq must have been as much a shock to him as it was to others, when he though about it later.

Perhaps this may be a lesson to Jalal that he cannot do everything oh his own.

BTW, The last scene in Wednesday's episode where Jalal feels that the drama has gone too far and wants to end it asap - how I wish the scene could have been lingered on in today's episode instead of Atifa butting in, like a KMH. How beautiful it would have sounded if Jalal had expressed dismay at hurting his beloved wife so much and distress at the thought of having pushed her to the point where she wants to go away from him.

I come back to the scene yesterday in which Jalal announced his intention to divorce Jodha. The stoic look she gave him from the depths of her soul, asking his soul if it could ever really let go of her soul, was a soul-connecting moment for them. It was this soul-talk that finally pierced the wall Jalal had built around himself these past few days. It was this soul talk that drew him in a trance to Jodha's hojra, after a really long time. He stood staring at her, unable to go to her or away from her.

Originally posted by: Rashmi81

Well said Maddy.

I think he loves her extremely ,that he doesn't have any control over his emotions whenever it is related to her.See today too ,he was angry with that Amanullah khan for hurting Jo and what he did of him.He trusts her a lot and she does too.

I wasn't therefore surprised to see the Precap where she was with him .Because love makes you forget and forgive.

Originally posted by: MaddyO

Radhika I want to add something here. Rambling thoughts which came to mind reading your post.

Trust can be complete but not blind. Same with belief. Does trust means you do not see the faults of the person? Or is it that you see them but even knowing them love the person and know you accept all his faults.

Now Jodha KNOWS that Jalal loves her, even in Khyber track when he had lashed at her, she knew he will come to find her. When she was sinking in river she called out his name.

Jodha knows the extreme reactions of Jalal with her. More than anyone else it is Jodha who has seen that he can lash at her that - if I remember what she said to SB - that when he loves her so much he puts her on a pedestal that she can't stand it and when he hates her or lashes at her in anger she can't even breathe. In all this there is one thing Jodha knows is that Jalal can never be indifferent to her. She AFFECTS him deeply. He loves her but is love constant same always??

Jalal even when he lashed at her and told her he now loves Atifa, never said that he has stopped loving her, he said he regretted loving her. So I don't think Jodha even in her devastated state did not feel some hope somewhere that like all previous instances when Jalal comes back to his senses he will come looking for her.

His behavior was an enigma and she said to Maan Singh that he is bhramit.

Now if she believed that Jalal can fall for Atifa, feel attracted, might feel he loves her, when he announced nikah with Atifa Jodha might have felt Jalal has deep feelings for Atifa - all this she can feel - but still her love did not change, nor her trust about their link.

It is in polygamy set up maybe it used to happen, she could have seen happen to others, that someone caught fancy and it was for few weeks and then the woman was forgotten.

They have been through too much and Jalal has in his extremes also done a lot for her. He asked her to leave and then searched high and low for her when he realized his mistake. So if anybody knows how much extremes Jalal can go to - it is Jodha. Khyber kidnapping he was rightfully angry and forget whose fault but he never doubted her. So by now Jalal knows Jodha and she knows him.

She never stopped trusting him - she could have felt he has really fallen for Atifa but it could be short term. That does not change her feelings, her love or her trust on the kind of person he is.

Even Jodha has started having extreme reactions with Jalal! When she felt he loves another she has lost him she in weak moment tried to commit suicide, when he announced Nikah she said she thought of her babies that is why she has to be strong.

So now both are getting a bit extreme in their reactions! However, they also trust each other a lot more!

Sorry for just rambling!

Originally posted by: MaddyO

Rashmi even when love is deep and trust also - still what is most important for feeding this is communication.
Ok Jodha can understand his reason, does that mean that hurt can't still linger in her mind about what he said to her, not about Atifa but about THEM. Also same for Jalal, what he said after Khyber his small hurts would be inside too.

What we never get from CVs is they talk and talk. Yes she can understand his reasons, but still the sorry has to be said and accepted.

It is just for clearing the cobwebs and for closure of the hurt.

I always wanted to see Jalal and Jodha have a talk night in Angoori baug where he tells her how he heard of Jodha and went to Amer just to see her and how he saw her first time and what he felt and every thing since then. Jodha can share when she started to love him.

CVs show us so much crap but rarely meaningful talk. I wish NOW atleast we get it.
I do want to see it and the sorry and oks.

Originally posted by: MaddyO

Radhika, wonderful post.

No - nothing an justify his shouting at his babies. If only CVs had not included that ugly bit.

Just a thought, Jalal maybe did not trust himself not to get swayed in by Jodha, that he cannot continue the pretense only with Jodha - everybody else he can fool easily. His attraction for Atifa he fooled even MA and Ruk easily.

Maybe it was combination of Jodha knowing that he was pretending and his own knowledge that if anybody can shake him it is Jodha, that he doesn't know how to control himself with her.

I wish they had put some of Jalal's self talks about hurting Jodha and feeling bad about it. If he had done that and the CVs had skipped the really ugly bits in the rage scene then for Jalal's hurt and guilt at doing this to Jodha and trying to find out this plot same time - if viewers had been taken into confidence - we would have cheered for them both.

Instead he came across as callous most of the track and I still do not like his saying ab aap se hi humara wajood hai - with all due respect - Atifa was a cheap woman and she did not need his dialogues just few jewels more from him.

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

Hi Maddy

Sorry I was away today because I was very low after yesterday's episode and I just didn't feel like coming to forum.

Right now I am also rambling and have lots more to say and you had better wait until tomorrow. Read everything first. Because I'm just writing as something is coming to mind.

But i will answer this post now. 😊

Jodha sees the faults in Jalal and never shies away from correcting him. This is different from believing in him.

Belief is inherent. If someone you love has a thousand faults, you can still believe in them. I cannot explain to you about this. It can only be felt.

When Jalal questioned Jodha about Sujamal, she felt he had lost this "belief" in her. When this belief is gone, then nothing remains in a relationship. If this belief is present, then no one can break a relationship.

Jalal and Jodha, both, affect each other deeply. Jalal affects her in ways we see but do not register. Jalal rages and so his reaction is easily seen. But Jodha withdraws into herself and this is a result of Jalal affecting her deeply. With no one else does she withdraw into her shell. When anyhting is to befall Jalal, she knows instinctively, and she is there to somehow protect him. Like today. She had no reason to be there in the nikah room. But some magnetic pull took her to him, some sixth sense told her she had to be with him at that moment.

Love is a strange thing. It makes you both strong and weak. Jodha's love made Jalal strong enough to be able to put her through a gruelling experience and Jalal's love made her strong enough to withstand every test and emerge unscathed. Jalal weakened only once in this track and that was when Jodha's eyes searched his soul for a reason to divorce her. Jodha weakened only once and that was when she tried to commit suicide.

But Jalal was able to come out of his moment of weakness and bring his plan to completion, without any trace of emotion or guilt. Jodha was able to strengthen herself for the sake of her babies and prepared herself to withdraw to Amer, giving time to Jalal to renew their relationship sometime in future. (Just as Jalal had earlier given her time to return to him when she was ready.)

I think Maddy, somewhere Jodha knows inside her that Jalal's words are not to be taken seriously at times, esp when he appears to be raging. She seems to have learnt the hard way that it is better to withdraw and remain silent till he cools down rather than fight with him when he is raging away.

Yes, perhaps in those days, women learnt to take their husband's affairs and marriages in their stride. Perhaps they had no choice but to bear with it and hope that their husband would come back to them some day.

I was really happy to see her steeling herself for her babies' sake. When a woman starts on the journey to motherhood, she cannot think of anyone or anything except her babies and how to protect them. Yesterday, she was so sure that she had to live for the sake of her babies, she could not beg Jalal to let her stay on in some corner in Agra, she had to return to Amer even if that caused her family infamy. For the first time, the maternal instinct was born in her and she was determined to bring her kids into this world and secure their future till such time as Jalal should see reason and return for her and their kids.

(Maddy, the maternal instinct is not born the moment a woman learns she is going to be a mother. It develops slowly later. I am just mentioning this because someone may question where the maternal instinct was when she tried to commit suicide. At that point in time, she was too emotionally low to feel anything inside her. Only when she crossed the threshold of her personal pain and stopped hurting could she think of her babies and their future.)

I love your rambling thoughts, Maddy. 🤗

Do keep sharing them. 😊

GN :) Let's continue tomorrow. I don't know if i can come online during daytime, but I will catch u later in eve or night. :)

Originally posted by: MaddyO

Radhika, wonderful post.

No - nothing an justify his shouting at his babies. If only CVs had not included that ugly bit.

Just a thought, Jalal maybe did not trust himself not to get swayed in by Jodha, that he cannot continue the pretense only with Jodha - everybody else he can fool easily. His attraction for Atifa he fooled even MA and Ruk easily.

Maybe it was combination of Jodha knowing that he was pretending and his own knowledge that if anybody can shake him it is Jodha, that he doesn't know how to control himself with her.

I wish they had put some of Jalal's self talks about hurting Jodha and feeling bad about it. If he had done that and the CVs had skipped the really ugly bits in the rage scene then for Jalal's hurt and guilt at doing this to Jodha and trying to find out this plot same time - if viewers had been taken into confidence - we would have cheered for them both.

Instead he came across as callous most of the track and I still do not like his saying ab aap se hi humara wajood hai - with all due respect - Atifa was a cheap woman and she did not need his dialogues just few jewels more from him.

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

What I'd really like to see is a greater emphasis on the dynamics of the interpersonal relations among Hamida Bano, Salima Begum, Ruqaiyya and Jodha. 4 strong women living together must have had some moments of angst as well as some moments of female bonding.

Traces and hints are shown but never explored in depth.

The Ruqaiyya-Jodha talks have always been memorable. Both these ladies - intelligent, well-read, beautiful, dynamic, able to lead, mentally strong yet emotional and vulnerable at heart - are close to Jalal in their own way. Instead of taking them to extremes of goodness and evil, these two could be kept more human and "normal" in their actions and reactions. Jodha should be allowed to speak up more often and shown to maintain her self-dignity against insults by anyone, be it Jalal, Ruqaiyya or Maham. (I loved her "main tumhe zinda nahin chodungi" dialog to Maham yesterday. I wish she had been allowed to walk up to Maham and give her a tongue lashing before Jalal revealed himself.) Likewise, Ruqaiyya should be kept gray and just simmering beneath the surface but not changed to a full-fledged vamp. She can be shown to be friendly with Jalal but discontent with his deeper and more abiding love for Jodha. And I wish her auda rant is reduced a bit. It is jarring on the nerves now.

Note: The comments below are to be seen in the context of the Wednesday episode only, without considering the Thursday episode.

In Wednesday's episode, the highlight was the way Ruqaiyya starts off by revealing how she never tried to understand Jodha, carried away as she was by jealousy-turned -to-hatred for her. How she always tried to destroy Jodha's chances of happiness. From here, she moves on to how she and Jodha are now sailing in the same boat, rejected as they have been by Jalal for another woman. She hopes Jodha understands her jealousy and heartbreak better now and can thus forgive her more easily. She has a slight twinge of regret that Jalal may be divorcing Jodha because of her. And she is ever so slightly hopeful that Jalal may still feel something for Jodha and refrain from actually marrying Atifa. Jodha does not react to anything she says but towards the end does gesticulate that she does not hold Ruqaiyya responsible for her fate and expresses her sentiments that whatever Ruq may say now makes no difference to her because the die has already been cast.

It was such a beautiful and gut-wrenching moment of two women trying to come to terms with the loss of their husband to another new woman. Till then, they had tried to win his love in their own ways and be close to him but ultimately, at that moment, both seemed to have lost out to another contender. Till then, Ruq had tried hard to defeat Jodha but when she finally seemed to have won in her mission of getting JJ separated, victory didn't seem to taste so sweet, mixed as it was with her defeat too. Jodha, who had by now transcended all levels of pain a human being could face and had resigned herself to her fate with fortitude bordering on fatalism, couldn't care less about what Ruqaiyya or anyone had to say about her relationship status with Jalal. As far as she was concerned, the relationship was over, at least for the moment.

Similarly, the Hamida-Jodha moment was poignant too. Hamida has also mostly resigned herself to accepting Jalal's obduracy, for try as she might to influence him, he remains steadfast in his resolve to do only that which pleases him. But Hamida is as close to Jodha as she is to Jalal. She perhaps accepts Jodha as a daughter more than even Bakshi Bano. For somewhere in Jodha, she sees her own traces. Jodha views herself as her husband's equal and has a strong sense of justice for which she doesn't mind taking on even Jalal. This quality appeals to Hamida, who had always walked as an equal with her husband and had always sided with the just, even against her son.

Jodha feels the pain of leaving this second mother, perhaps for ever, and breaks down. What i like about Jodha is that her relations with her in-laws are independent of her relationship with Jalal. Even when she was in ghrina, she always respected his family. Hamida, on her part, didn't let down Jodha's faith in her and offered her a place to stay on with her in Agra and her support

She knew how hard it would be for Jodha and her family if she were to return as an abandoned wife to Amer. That Jodha couldn't bear the thought of living in close vicinity to Jalal and suffer his neglect everyday was another matter.

Jodha-Salima talks are the talks of soul sisters. They are both on the same mental wavelength and of similar dispositions and are mutually attracted to each other's company because of this. They both love Rahim equally as their son.

Only once we have seen Salima-Ruq interaction in which Salima had the upper hand.

Ruqaiyya has been shown to care for Hamida in her own way, though this care increases significantly when Jodha is in a tough spot with Jalal.

Four beautiful women - how many tales must have been buried of their relations with each other.