I LOVED these - 8

Fateh pur sikari and Jo's tomb - by elasingh - Ela visited Fateh pur Sikari and has post loads of super photos. Must see what super palace Akbar built for his Jodha

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3976323

Jodha's trust broken - by RadhikaS0 - Radhika has started a blockbuster therad with fierce debate going on

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3982152

history_geek has shared new information about Akbar's Mausoleum pictures, little Akbar's divine vision, Sunhara Makan photos (Akbar built for Jodha)

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3976323&TPN=38

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3976323&TPN=41

As usual please share your favorites 😃

Wonderful posts by Newbie - Kaana - Welcome Kaana 😃

Dear friends and fans of JA, I had shared this in some other forum and thought would share this with you all. I liked Radhika's post and was tempted to post mine here as well.

I was trying to understand the characters of Jalal and Jodha and trying to put down what runs in my mind given the current track context. Pl bear with its length. I must admit that I am not a crazy big fan of either of these characters, but these characters have drawn my attentidon and triggered my thinking process. I am indeed thankful to the Producer, Director and the Story writer of this serial for the fantastic job done in impacting people - I am impacted by this serial, it has made me think and understand the true nature of love better, to be precise the undying love - what exactly does it mean and its subtleties.

So, here is my take - this is not based on emotions, but just impressions formed by putting things in perspective.

JODHA: Let me take the character of Jodha first. I have seen comments on her demanding that she behave like a Mughal wife who takes the side of the husband, come what may. There was also a view which said that Jodha is equally responsible for this saga and that any husband would be suspicious of a woman meeting a man at night.

Well, I would like to outright say that we are talking about characters who have got themselves a name in the history and remembered even today. Agreed there is a fiction part to it and for the time being, let us give the benefit of doubt and take the characters to be true to enjoy and understand the serial better. So, going back to my above statement, they are not ordinary normal day to day lovers that we see around. I am sure that there is something unique and looked up to, for it to be cherished even today. So, my thoughts and analysis are based on this fundamental point.

Let us now try to get into the shoes of Jodha and see why she behaved this way and if she was right in doing what she did given her character? I am sure that when look at things rationally, the persons innate nature and drivers need to be borne in mind. So, how can we define Jodha - an embodiment of spontaneous, unsullied love for anyone around, even animals and insects and what then to say for a blessed husband? And, one who boldly stands for a true cause and goes to any extent to eliminate injustice. Who has great values, honor, with truth and trust being her essence.

She loathed Jalal for all the injustice he had done, for his absolute lack of any humanity. But given her maturity she started changing her opinion when she got to know him better. When Jalal started supporting her, she developed friendship for him. The more he started trusting her, when she brought up the various cases and he addressed them, her regards for him increased, which later started blossoming as affection and now is at a point when she realizes that she is in love with him. I am glad that the CV took the time to show this transformation, instead of standard soaps where she just flipped for him or is transformed after a couple of interactions! So, it is all about winning her trust (and it does take time naturally) and Jalal has been quite successful in it. And once he had won her trust, he won her love. Kudos to his patience and perseverance driven by his love for her! He truly and completely wanted to win her and was willing to wait.

Given Jodha's character do you think it will fall in place for her to hug Jalal and say there is nothing to be forgiven. You just mistrusted in the heat of the moment, or for that not even mistrusted me but just said something given your state of mind (and what caused the state of mind is a question I have though??!!). I must say that when I saw that dream sequence of Jalal, I was disgusted. I just did not expect this from Jodha, given her character. Thank God, the author has saved the merit of her character making it as a dream! Now, going back to the arguments posed by someone on Jodha's behavior of moving away from the palace, here is my take on this:

Even before getting into Jodha's behavior, let us understand what this true, undying love that anybody and everybody claim to their lovers or is expected to possess in any affair? Is true love the true feelings of love that ebbs in one's heart for the person or is there anything more to it also? If it is the former, I suppose, many would have made their love story to history. We hear of so many cases of suicide unable to bear separation of the lover. We have Bakshi Banu, with her eternal mad love for Sheriffudin, that she is ready to kill herself or anyone for the sake of her love. For that matter, if we look at it this way, Bakshi Banu's love for Sheriffudin is more glorious than Jodha's, though she died for him drinking poison he was not that evil as Sheriffudin. Because, in the case of Bakshi, she loves her husband like crazy and is loyal to him, despite the fact that he is so sick. She is so blindly in love with him. Does not this character of her (or any similar in the world) deserve an award or a place in history? Also, she is a true Mughal wife who is with her husband, blindly, come what may. We also see Hamida, Salima and for that matter Ruks, who are also so loyal to their husbands. The way Salima considers herself as a spec in front of her husband and puts her husband's dictate and pleasure before hers and is also a well-wisher definitely demands a big acclamation. But why do we not remember her today in history? Why is Bakshi Banu's love despite Sherifuddin not talked off and Jodha's love talked about even today, when she does not even allow her husband to touch her, failing the default minimum expectation from a wife?

Did I answer those who had arguments against Jodha yday? I repeat, I am not a crazy fan of Jodha and so blindly taking her side. I am not Bakshi's follower (having blind crazy love for one where the rational faculty is completely at a loss). I am just putting things in perspective.

Let us take an example. Let us say one fan is crazy about about actor A that she is willing to die for that person. She just cannot stand a word or even a letter against him. She is so loyal to him, anything he does is heavenly and will tear away anyone even attempting to say a negative about him. She dotes on him, praises him always and by default always takes his side irrespective of what is said or done by him. There is another fan, who also loves the actor very much. She also will give her life for him. She also cannot bear any wrong to him. And importantly, she is also there as a true friend giving the right advice, pointing his mistakes and ensuring he is on the right track. She wants him to succeed and does her bit for that. She is not hesitant to do what it takes if it is good for him, even if it means harm for her. His true welfare is her only wish and want. Between the two fans, whom would you call as more loyal?

A true wife is one who is a good friend first and is with the husband in his ups and down and always cares for his welfare, by enabling and ensuring that he is on the right track for his welfare. She gives her best for his best. If however, he fails to see merit in her advice and gets himself into mess, the true wife stands by him still in the need of the hour, though it could be a fact that she was not in agreement to what he did and did try her best to dissuade him. This is loyalty, this is true love.

This exactly what Jodha did, she pointed to her husband his mistakes, she made him see light and also when he did not listen to her and decided to marry Benazir, she decided to take the brunt of that huge mistake on herself. She never let him down or left him. But she did not blindly support him, she did her true bit as a loyal wife and put her best foot to ensure that he takes the right path.

Even during Sukanya's wedding, she took Jalal's side with her parents arguing why he should give away the fort. Even when Jalal said that she is not siding him, she said that she is siding the truth and wanted him to see the truth. Instead of blindly nodding her head away to anything he does, she tried to bring him on the path of the truth. She first found out the truth and once she knew what happened she put her bit to resolve it and maintain the honour of her husband as well as her family. Even assuming that Jodha was madly in love with Jalal then, even then, she would have done exactly the same and tried to make him see the truth and do that which is just, instead of nodding her head away and bringing taint on him. So, when she realized the cheap game of Sherifuddin and that the promise has anyway been done, she tried to honour it and save her husband's honour for that matter and also the marriage which should not be stopped due to unfairness, though she had to play a game for that.

When Jalal rejected Bakshi and when all ladies, including the loyal Salima (very warm and nice character) and Ruks failed to convince Jalal or for that matter were not ready to oppose Jalal, it was only Jodha who fought for it. Now, are we complaining that she went against her husband's wishes and she was not loyal to him? Or are we happy that she took the right step to unite her back with the family? Was she wrong in feeling the pain of Jalal and trying to remove it, instead of not do anything about it and allow him to sulk? She could relate to the pain of each one of them and took it upon herself to redress through right action, even if it means arguing with Jalal. Now, is this not ingenuine love, care, concern and so core loyalty to one's husband?

If Jodha had been loyal in the expected way by some of you as expressed by you in yday's post, we would not be talking of Akbar the great today. She brought him fame, she made him do what needs to be done. She was with him in and through and helped him discharge his duties well. She earned him his subject's love and prayers (when other loyal begums were gifting him way jewels and dresses), she gave him what he lacks. She opened his eyes to the truth, brightened his dark life. The true wife plays a key role in the success and failure of her husband, in his good and bad. She is equally responsible, it is her responsibility. While on the other side, the loyal Bakshi was only aiding her husband's fall.

Honestly, Bakshi's love is disgusting to me. She is spoiling her husband. And to win his love, she is killing him (encouraging all his negatives) and was even ready to go against her dear brother. If she could not handle, she could have rather died I suppose and be a martyr of her love for her husband. I could not stand the glorification of her love. But love is indeed blind mostly and such a love is dangerous and importantly, it is not true love in my humble view. It is just desire in high level and where selfishness directly or indirectly rules (I love him so much, I want him so much that I will do anything for that - ain't it selfishness? Instead of, I love him so much that I care only for his welfare even if it amounts to losing him or his love (attitude being more than me having him, his welfare is important)).

Remember Mirza's words that he wants Shivani to be happy with the person she loves. It is not his want but her want that takes the precedence. This is true love. When Jalal did not believe Jodha regarding threats to his life, and she sees that he is increasingly hating her, she did not soften to win his affection back, but kept going as her focus was to save his life even if it amounts to losing his affection for her or for that matter her life itself.

Coming back to the question, what then is undying love? The love that is eternal, lasts long despite all odds? And not just restricted to feelings / emotions of love? For undying love to be there, it has to be primarily unsullied. Emotions alone will not hold fort here. What is unsullied love then? What taint can make it be called as sullied and hence not undying love? Or what is it that make it qualify to be called as unsullied love? The answer as we all know is, TRUST. TRUST is the core of it. It is the very roots on which the love grows and blossoms. How much ever the plant and later as a tree it grows giving beautiful flowers and tasty fruits, if the roots are weak, the tree can crumble anytime. So, however, beautiful, pleasant, loving and intense a relationship it can, if TRUST is not there or if it is not firmly rooted, then that relationship has the risk of crumbling anytime though it may seem in all beauty for the time being. Whereas even if no feelings are there, if TRUST is there, with this healthy roots, it soon grows into a beautiful, healthy tree.

And, this is exactly what has happened now in JA. Jalal's expression of trust won her love but his expression of mistrust now made him loose her. If it is only feelings, emotions or physical expression, then this situation would not have happened. Jodha would have accepted him and the more powerful feeling of love expressed by Jalal now could have swept her off. But it is about the very root, which is shaken now.

So, coming back to Jodha's current state, if she loved and cared so much for her husband, why did she not forgive him when he realized his goof regarding Sujamal and apologized to her? Is she putting her ego in front? These questions are answered I suppose.

For that matter, the answer lies in Jodha's letter itself. In the first place, she is not angry with Jalal and therefore she is not rejecting him and going away. Instead she is deeply hurt in that she has failed to win his trust. And where there is no trust, there is no meaning in that relationship. It will only be a farce to be continuing in that relationship, with scope for exhibition of some emotions now and then but without any core. This shows her maturity and value she gives for trust and thereby true love.

It was a good bit that Jodha said that she was too shocked to hear that he did not trust her and that it tied her tongue. This clearly implies the extent of implicit trust she had in him which has now got shaken up completely. The very root is shaken up. And such a tree can only be vulnerable in future also and also how can it flourish anymore. And, whether future or not, in the case of Jodha it is uprooted. And that is why, I suppose, she has said that, even if he gets her back to Agra, he will not get his Jodha back really.

And I now see a comment that Jodha should have explained herself. In the first place, Jalal has not even said that this is a concern and has been only indicating pain. Jodha also feels that she should apologise for pushing him down the other day. She had no clue that her character is being doubted. Also, I share Radhika's view that telling it to Jalal would be meaningless as he will ask for proof and will blissfuly reveal to the traitors as well. His life is at stake and she is working towards saving him, we need to remember this.

JALAL:

While Jalal on the other hand, is valorous king, an embodiment of power and the resultant arrogance. He believes that his sword rules, unlike Jodha who believes that it is heart that rules. He takes pride in his kingship and believes that anything could be got and done as he wished. And, he always seem to be under the influence of others, be it Khan Baba, MA, Ruks or later Jodha. He is more emotional (though he claims not to have a heart) than rational and gives this advantage to others. We have even seen his verdicts given based on emotions (ofcourse, when not emotional he can be rational). Women, in general, are not seen as someone to be respected (but he does treat them with some dignity lest Mughal Saltanat respect at stake!) while Jodha is from a traditional Indian environment where women are revered and wife is a pride of the husband. Some values seem to be lost on him, though his devotion to God is admirable and I suppose his saving grace. But I would not say that he is inherently evil. Imagine Jodha giving such gyan to Aurangazeb! Or is it a tragedy that he did not have a Jodha?!

And, this is why Jalal was losing to her all through. While he was trying to control her and pin her at his feet, he was being controlled by her in a way. The great values of Jodha overpowered his sword and power. She won him completely just by her character. He was impressed by her talent, righteousness and was getting attracted to her by the day. He was convinced by her arguments and trusted her decisions for the welfare of the people.

But in my humble view, though he saw purity in her eyes, he trusted her intent and merit of her acts and words etc., mighty impressed with her talent, he still lacked that one key thing for a successful relationship or to call it a true love and the reason why he faced so many fall. Also, I suppose he was not matured enough. Firstly, he should have understood that it will take sometime to win Jodha's heart, given the background and her strong character and values. So, I was not happy with him, not losing a chance to figure out if she loves him. Like some of the fans, he is also in a hurry to kiss her, have her etc while patience pays J. And, had he been sensible he should have got a doubt about Jodha inviting him for a night in return for the ban of child marriage in is kingdom. He should have gone only with a benefit of doubt to her. The whole thing sounded weird to me, given Jodha's character, she is not going to convert her relationship with him (which she valued and respected and hence all the restrictions) as a deal or a reward.

For this, I suppose, we need to understand how Jodha looks at it. In her mind the physical relationship is only an outcome or a resultant of true love. It is only an expression of one's love. So union of heart is more important and the first thing to happen. So, when Jodha has not even confessed or realized any such feelings for him, such an invitation is weird. Bit of thinking by Jalal could have saved him some disgrace. Agreed, Jodha could have handled this better - she fell down in my eyes here.

Secondly, when Jodha said she did not write any such in the letter while dear Badi ammi confirmed the other way, Jalal believed Badi ammi. He did not even pause to think if Jodha was capable of doing any such. This clearly points out his trust level. He trusts her for her intelligence and righteousness w.r.t. welfare of the people. But when it comes to his personal relationship, there is no implicit faith.

And after this, again chose to go back to her after she saved his life, he did not seem to have resolved the matter. He continues to assume that she called him and then rejected him. I can't imagine someone continuing in the relationship, when trust is at stake. He should have taken the effort to figure it out, sort it out. But his blind implicit faith in badi ammi takes precedence over his trust on Jodha. Dare badi ammi to play so with Salima. She just can't as she is rooted in her trust for Jodha. Only Jalal is vulnerable. Even during Ruks miscarriage though badi amma was being cornered and later escaped with a dupe, he did not bother to investigate the matter any further as to how could such a dupe have got into the palace in the first place and managed to do all this, which ideally should have happened in an able administration.

That is why he is vulnerable (as it is not yet complete true love for her) and so when badi ammi told about Sujamal affair, he believed it though he claimed not to or did not want to (though he didn't believe initially it did not sustain). He was only trying to convince himself that she is not at fault, though there an element of doubt was brewing in him. And that is why even when he went to Jodha's room to get the truth out of her, he was prejudiced, he went with an assumption, but was only cherishing a desire to hear the other way. This cost him dear. The way he handled the matter was pathetic. He was emotional and not rational. This is not becoming of a great king especially. And if he had complete trust on her character, he would have handled it completely differently. He could not sense that she was constrained, though she said that she is constrained. That is a crucial point and he missed it. Also, if he had applied his mind, he would have figured out that it is not falling in place - as Jodha was willingly engaged to Suryabhan who is now dead, he has even eavesdropped on their conversation. So, where is the question of her having an affair from childhood? It is very funny to hear that she drank the poison to win his trust and later take revenge, when she said clearly that she may not open her eyes again. And she would want to live in the first place to take revenge on him. He did the same mistake earlier and accused her of bearing someone's child. And she established her purity, which Salimar swore during her discussion with him. Khair! When Hamida and Salima trust Jodha totally why can't he? Every time, his badi ammi says something he deems it as a fact. Why can't he logicise it? But if one were to raise a finger against his dear badi ammi they would be dead, here again, he is emotional and not rational. Remember Jodha tells him to look at truth and not carried away by relation?

Even now, when he runs to Amer to bring Jodha back, he has failed miserably - he did not pause to think as to what Jodha would have done. He knows that Jodha has pledged not to go to Amer in parithyag state. I am not sure if he even checked with his security folks on which direction Jodha went. He seems to be operating on impulse. Not sure how he could run a kingdom!

I feel his dream scene of being accepted so easily also depicts immaturity and misplaced view of Jodha. He seems to lack to understand her. But maybe, you cannot blame him in a way, given the environment in which he has been living. He definitely is not used to these and is unable to fathom I suppose. He is in the learning process.

I somehow feel there is some character assassination of Jalal or was it meant to be projected so?

And after he understood that Jodha has an affair, due to his love for her he could not hurt her directly, but he still wanted to take his revenge and wanted to hurt her by killing her lover. Pl recollect Mirza's words here again - he is happy if Shivani is happy - true love is selfless and genuinely wanting the happiness of the loved one. So, here, it was not Jodha before him. Had he told her that he will unite her with her lover and gives her azaadi from his rishta, as her happiness is more important to him, I think Jodha would have been floored for a change. But his emotions and desire takes precedence.

Also, he has been wanting to have her so much, but is constrained by his promise and also does not want to upset Jodha (fear of loosing her). It was not that I will wait for her to want it. I want her to be comfortable first. Even in Sujamal case, he says MA that I do not want her to think that I am doubting her. Instead if he had had an open conversation with her saying he trusts her but he heard something about her and would like to know about it, things would have been different. This is how true friends behave.

It is not that his love is not true. He loves her very much that he cannot live without her - he is so emotionally bound with her. But as we discussed before, only emotions are not enough for true love. It is just one part, but a bigger part is TRUST. That is why, we see Jodha not making such advances as him or being so emotional or irrational, as trust is the basis of her love. She even told him that she no more hates him as he trusts her. So, this is the biggest lesson for him, that trust is the core of true love. And once he has this unsullied trust in her, their relationship can never be at risk. Even badi ammi cannot do a thing!

Ekta and team has done a brilliant job in bringing out these aspects and in building such a deep relationship so well. They are taking us slowly to the scenario where Jalal and Jodha develop this implicit unsullied trust in each other, laying the strong foundation from where they kick start the journey of eternal love, which made history.

Till then, Jalal deserves only MA where his unsullied trust lies at the moment. Isn't it said that you get what you believe in?!

I actually felt disgusted after the showdown by Jalal. I wanted to quit the show (not yet again Jalal was my feeling, am tired of this!) and definitely wanted Jodha to move away for him to learn the basics.

Thanks for your patient reading.

Originally posted by: jiya.k

I liked this thread RUQAIYA SULTAN by najma123...


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