A journey of Trust - Page 3

Originally posted by: MaddyO

Kshthi REALLY missed you and your posts
Glad you are back😃

For Jodha, either she trusts a person or not. She does not need a proof for trust or for lack of it. Jalal needs proof for trust. His trust is conditional and there is a reason for why he is the way he is. Simply put, she is all heart and he is all mind. Together they are the soul. So, do they trust each other completely now? For me it is a resounding no. They are getting there though. She still does not trust him to be with her no matter what and unconditionally. He still does not trust her to be his and that he is her life as she is to him. Both of them need to understand this about the other and make sure these doubts are cleared.

Love this para of yours

I think Jalal trusts Jodha now with his life but not his heart,
Even very early in their relationship he knew he could trust her with his life, now she has given him proof of that

What he craves is wanting to trust her with his heart, to be able to give it freely to her

Glad you put it this way...he has hard time understanding the matters of the heart!! And he is unsure too...

Yet he still does not understand that when he makes it 4 in a relationship everytime, he ends up hurting her

His eyes and attention is so much on Jodha, he does not notice who all have eyes on her and not in good way. MA, Ruk, SD, BB so he stands in middle and somehow makes her alone on the other side. She would not be if he chose to confide in HB & SB yet somehow he always ends up going to the others.

He being on in the inside of Agra madhouse, he can not see the people for they are.. he has been in this system since birth and hence can not have an objective view. Till date, this has been his biggest failure. While he is percpective enough to read outsiders, he can not read the insiders.

You made me want to think back about episodes and put his acts purely for her, and those due to her for him

Abolishing das pratha, earning his people's love, wanting Rajvanshis' to like him - all of this he did due to her but for him
Gave fort to Sukanya for her, as he said it was not given to Amer's Sukanya but HIS Jodha Begum's sister

Jodha used to communicate with him very freely early on in their marriage, she used to go to him and say everything she wanted to freely. Now she is so wary - this makes me so curious

What is cause of her wariness, now tired of the on a pedestal one min or insulted publicly the next?
Like she told him after Ben, he does not believe her till she gives him proof, he does not ask it of others but always of her.

He never invited confidences from her... he was never aproachable. And also, earlier she did not have anything to lose. She was free with her hate and feelings... Now she can lose his regard, his affection and him. She does not yet have that trust that he will still ne with her, no matter what she speaks.. He has said it to her, but his actions till date says otherwise.

She keeps quiet now cos she does not have proof about the dhakka or Sujamal

If she discovers her love can she give it freely without worrying he can now break her heart to pieces even more easily? How can she tell him unless he tells her first?!

So how can they both confide without the trust?!!!

Love
Maddy

Originally posted by: rock&roll

First of all,I must say very nice post by kmmdesai...👏..Nice to read a good general discussion after a long time...

Very nice response by adianasr too.

Adding some more thoughts here

I wrote this in an earlier topic too and am repeating it here.

From what I know,a first time hurt(like in Jodha's case) can be handled by a strong woman. But when hope and trust is kindled with initiative and consistent kindness from the so called "abuser" or "person with power" and the woman begins to trust him and then things go back to square one,it is devastatingly hurtful.Far worse than the earlier situation .This is a small thing,but it is the beginning.Hope Jallu does not do anything stupid or act without thinking any more. Will take a a very very strong person to come out of this. 😊

Originally posted by: ann2012

Awesome post 👏👏

Very well-written and worth reading again & again 😳

Jalal and Jo are so different yet so alike. Though they their upbringings and surroundings were as different as night and day, they seem to have been molded from the same clay. On the surface they may seem poles apart in their likes/dislikes and how they achieve their ends. But they happen to be very similar on the inside. Their ways might be different but isn't it surprising that their goals appear to be the same?

Few common traits they share:

1. Love their families fiercely

2. Stubborn

3. Hot-headed

4. Have an acute sense of justice

5. Ability to see beyond than what people normally see

6. Awaam-loving

7. Patriotic

8. Liberal

People can't forge a relationship if they don't have a common ground.

Their love would have happened even if they had a match which wasn't supposed to be a political arrangement or started on a hateful, bitter note. Even if Jalal hadn't sworn an oath to possess Jodha and been attracted to her unavailability & finally succumb to her, their love saga would have flourished even if they met in a normal situation. These two individuals were just so remarkable that the attraction between them would have been inevitable.

Trust is something that is built slowly over time. But such big incidents have happened in our dearest couple's lives that there is a healthy amount of trust in their relationship, despite the rocky start they had. Jo has done more than enough to win Jalal's trust and blind faith.

Though in face of evidence it is bound to get questioned. Jalal didn't lap up and believe every word that MA said about Jo's nightly meetings until he saw two of them himself. He will get curious and angry. And, as you rightly said, more than a trifle bit insecure.

Jodha is one of the best women he can come across in his entire lifetime. Jalal or anybody wouldn't believe their luck to be married to such a lady. His reactions in some part also show this insecurity. He doesn't want to lose her, the only reason he hasn't confronted her so far. But his trust in her still stands and will always remain.

Originally posted by: kmmdesai

Thanks Maddy...😃

My replies are inline..

Love

Kshithi

Originally posted by: MaddyO

Wow Ann super post. Loved it and especially the last para I made bold.

Just one Q, where has my hot headed Jodha gone to?! Please come back for MA & Rukayya!

Originally posted by: kmmdesai

Thanks Ann..

You have written wonderfully.. 😊

They are similar on their goals and in some characteristics. Yet, they seem different too.. in their heart and mind. Jalal thinks from his mind and needs logical proofs for him to believe anything. Jodha is not like that. She is all heart. She was the first one to forgive BB and Sharif, whereas, Jalal still not completely convinced of Sharif me thinks. This is just an example.

He is in between a rock and hard place. He is afraid and insecure of losing her affection. And he can not ask her, because he may lose it either way.

Love

Kshithi

Originally posted by: ann2012

Thanks Maddy 😳

The hot-headed princess has just vanished along with her hatred for Jalal! Jodha lost her temper due to these two reasons:

1. when she hated Jalal

2. when she was denied something

She has started loving the person she hated. She always gets what she wants as Jalal can't refuse her anything. So, when the reasons have gone for good then why will the anger linger 😉

Originally posted by: kmmdesai

Hey Friends,

Finally got the internet and everything is set. MIssed you all mad people...🤗Phew, never take internet for granted...I learned my lesson...never again!!!!!

Hooo u callin mad gurl...not bein on the InterNets has set sumthin shakin in that noggin...

First I have to apologize for not replying for many posts and threads and PMs. I will be going through them as soon as possible.

Interesting episodes we are having now and lot of debates it has sparked (why am I speaking like Yoda?!).

Yeah...wondering am I as well, if soul mine transported has been...is with you...the force is...

This is in continuation of my much older posts. You can say that all these posts are part of Venn diagram with intersections and unions. And also I would have written few things here and there in other posts. So, kindly stay with me if you felt if this is repetitive. I have also not read the recent posts and hence do not know if anyone else has already touched these topics.

Abb...math me mushkil se pass hui thi...the only Venn I know is in Pongal...and all that intersected there was ghee, nariyal and mirchi...go figure...ermmm...or not...my figure is went already...

(Those who have absolutely no work right now, please read my older posts if interested. Links are below. http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3836599 and http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3841285)😉

I have explored Jalal and Jodha individually in the previous posts. This is something I wanted to write for a long time, i.e. the journey of Jalal and Jodha together. I also want to remind and mention a lovely post made by Divya on trust sometime back and a reply from Sandhya on the very same post. These are somehow connected to this post. (Maddy, these posts would be my nomination for your weekly posts by the way). So here it is...

Explored Jalal and Jodha...hmmm..ain't gonna touch that one with a barge pole babe..

.you said it...not me....😛

A good relationship is like a good wine. As the relationship matures and grows, so does the flavor and the experience. Jalal and Jodha's relationship has been through many trails and experiences. Is this enough to make a good wine of a relationship?

The same applies to Balsamic Vinegar...makes good salad dressing...just saying..is all..

It was an interesting juncture at which Jalal and Jodha's path cross for the first time. Jalal, having a terrible childhood and having seen and done things which a normal child would not have, even for that era, was in a position of power and control. But, for Jodha, her trails and abuse started only after she met Jalal. Till then she was a pampered princess.

His past was behind him and power and control were his two best friends. She lost all the control and power over her life and from her life. He made her to be a symbol and embodiment of all of Rajavanshis. She was a figure-head to control and tame the Ranjavanshi's heart and land. For her, he stood for all things evil and hateful. He wanted to tame her and she wanted to defy him.

Often I hear complaints about Jodha's behavior during the initial days of her marriage. That she was hateful and rude towards Jalal. And she cared for Amer more than him. But why shouldn't she? The whole purpose of her marriage was to keep Amer safe. She was merely doing the job which her parents assigned her, isn't it? And why shouldn't she be rude to Jalal? Her dignity was compromised in unimaginable ways and she had no power to change it. We can live without lot of things, even love. We cannot and should not live without dignity and respect.

The understanding of her psyche requires one to go beyond the quagmire of a Stockholm Syndrome type BDSM relationship, that most femmes mistakenly identify as a (Glawggg! Puke!) ..romance...minus the B n D factor here...and that too coz she put her dainty foot down..plonk...'pon his intentions..

And Jalal, being influenced by MA and BK, and the way he was bought up, the circumstances made him the man he was. He did not think that dignity, respect and even love are something everyone needs, even him. He understood only power and he expected that is what others want it too. He used power as a tool, to control and a boon, to bestow upon people who earned his favor.

I disagree here...he gets dignity, respect as concepts...but limits that only to a select few...and that too conditionally...

I am going off topic and all things changed and for the better later on anyway.

But, let's talk about trust. Jodha knew she was marrying a man she hated and that he hated her. Even though the man hated her, she trusted that a king will give her the respect in accordance to her status in his life that is of a wife and queen. He broke her trust then. And he continued to break her trust. Every time there was a misunderstanding or a problem, he broke her trust that he will be with her no matter what or that he will be her strength. Repeatedly, her dignity was compromised and he was not with her or because he was not with her. Remember the scene where she asks him to release Sharif? All she ever wanted was a partner in life, who will be with her thick and thin, sharing her sorrows and triumphs equally, and with no conditions attached. Is he that partner now? How can she trust him, especially, whenever there are conflicts, his support in her was always a question and not a certainty? What is the guarantee that her dignity will be intact, if there is any MU's and conflicts? Would she have told him about Suja, even without that promise? These doubts will not be there when there is absolute trust.

Dunno if he EVER hated her...he said he did...but that was DumbAss Thwarted Lustful Male talk...all testosterone and no neural firing... He was, and still is Obsessed with and by her...

But yeah...in that confused morass state of emotions..which he, of course,being male, would deny...he treated her abominably...objectified her... But the bulb chamkaaoed when she went SooSiiite... That's when the circuits started firing in his head...and he started to do the awesome task of THINKING..!!!!!!!

Not that she didn't make her share of faux pas...but she was in alien...(and sometimes I mean that literally) territory... And skeptical and suspicious of all and sundry...who wouldn't be...with all that he heaped upon her...how does a Public Apology...and to those who say he did not even have to do that...cover up the indignity of being accused and imprisoned for the crime of malevolently terminating a pregnancy...She is Royal..in her own right..and a Begum of a ShahenShah to boot... That was dunce time for him...

Jalal has seen so many things in his childhood that trust does not come naturally to him, understandably so. People have to work hard to earn his. Jodha did earn his trust to a large extent. Her scarifying her life to save his paved a big way for his ultimate trust. But, circumstances have taught him to be wary. He trusts Jodha, but with a pinch of salt. No wonder, because, he has seen that most of his enemies are the once close to him. Can we blame him when is on guard and still keeps himself away from giving all in to Jodha? He is treading a new path, of emotions and feelings, which are not natural to him. He has seen her heart and the love she is capable of. Given his past and his deeds, will he not be insecure? Will he not have even a tinest of doubt whether is worthy of such love, or worthy of her? If he is unsure and insecure with Jodha, that is only expected. With his insecurities, will he not fear losing her affection to another, even if that other person is not a lover? Will he not doubt if he will ever be the center of her universe, as she is to his? Even if it is so, will he not fear losing all of it in a blink of time? After all, he does not trust his own destiny and fate that anything will be permanent. These insecurities will not be there when there is absolute trust.

That is it...hitting the nail bang on target...it's himself he does not trust...all others are extensions from there...good insight my L'il one... Big 'un here is proud of ya..

...

There are lot of similarities and differences between these two. Since, the question of the hour is trust, these two are poles apart. For Jodha, either she trusts a person or not. She does not need a proof for trust or for lack of it. Jalal needs proof for trust. His trust is conditional and there is a reason for why he is the way he is. Simply put, she is all heart and he is all mind. Together they are the soul. So, do they trust each other completely now? For me it is a resounding no. They are getting there though. She still does not trust him to be with her no matter what and unconditionally. He still does not trust her to be his and that he is her life as she is to him. Both of them need to understand this about the other and make sure these doubts are cleared.

Love,

Kshithi

Love ur thoughts, as always..well composed, articulate and sensitive...🤗

Originally posted by: MaddyO

Yes but I was talking about with MA & Rukayya, it is painful to watch Ruk always talk tauntingly and insultingly and Jodha just take it. Why should she? Jodha is perceptive enough to know MA hates her and so does Rukayya. There was a period after vishpaan where Jodha did not talk to MA at all. I had made comment about it how she talks with Ruk but just smiles at any comments of MA. Why can't Jodha be Jodha of old with Rukayya atleast?