Question re Vastra Haran

DrModel thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#1
A question from the MB that my 21st century brain cannot process: IF a lady has the will to choose her husband at a swayamvar and whether to elope and Kanha says its the coconut's will and destiny as to where it chooses to grow once it falls from the palm tree, THEN how can a LADY be staked as gamble? where does the lady's free will go then? or once she has chosen her fate then she has to live by that choice?So Kanha did not agree with betting DPadi and THAT is why Yudi had to spend twelve years in penance?
P.S. Please let this be a discussion of how and why DPadi was staked at dice, whether Yudi had the right to do that and why no one except Kanha protected her.

Disclaimer. For the sake of no fights, I do not want to know or care about who she should have married instead; who was not evil; who was wronged; what must have happened at swayamvar. This is a discussion about DPadi and the Pandavas and the One who guided them and should remain that.

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amritat thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#2
Very good post.👏
Even I have the same question.
I know y u made such a disclaimer. I agree with each n every point in it.😃
This question has been raised on Facebook pages of Mahabharat many times, n the replies have been outrageous. Some people(including women) claim that Draupadi deserved to be molested, bcoz she rejected Karna, n called him a sutaputra. So, basically according to these people, verbal abuse should be met with physical/sexual assault. Disgusting!!
Anyway, without going into controversies, let's discuss.
Yudisthir lost everything, n finally was manipulated into staking Draupadi by Shakuni. Yudisthir thought, that this stake would reverse his losses. But unfortunately, he lost again, n then the rest is history.
Here, a few things need to be pointed out. Some people blame Yudisthir completely for Draupadi's plight n claim that wat Yudisthir did was worse than wat Dushashen did. đŸ€Ș
Anyway, it is true that Yudisthir did a horrible thing. But some people interpret his actions as if he treated his wife as a commodity. But the truth is, he staked all his brothers as well, whom he loved so much. He even staked himself. So, I don't think he staked Draupadi bcoz, he treated her like a commodity. He impulsively staked her, bcoz he thought that atleast this time, he would win.
THAT IS WHERE, he made a HUGE mistake.
He should have realized, that staking a man n a woman are not the same, as a woman's reputation is complicated.
Secondly, he should have realized, that since he was losing all the time, what would happen if he lost this time too.
He optimistically staked her, thinking atleast this time, he would win. He didn't think what would be the consequences if he lost again.
Then, Draupadi is dragged in a horrible state, about which I don't want to elaborate.
She then asks the most valid question at that moment.
"If a man loses himself, does he have a right on his wife anymore?"
Now, unable to answer this question, everybody remained quiet. N taking advantage of this quietness, Draupadi was disrobed, but saved by Lord Krishna at the right moment.
Edited by amritat - 11 years ago
Ketan_ thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#3
I will look at it more humanly, I guess it was because of the heat of the moment that Yudistheer did that. He had lost every thing by then but Shakuni present him with a chance to win everything again and he fell in the gambler dilemma and no, it was not right in anyway that's why it has been condemned.
DrModel thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#4
@ Amrita: I do not want to even acknowledge what is said on some FB pages. NO lady whether in this century or back then deserves to be assaulted because she rejects a guy.
It is said in the Srimad Bhagwatam that THIS game was the ONE thing Yudi did without consulting the Lord.
If you look at his track record, he ALWAYS consulted Kanha. YES, Kanha was closer to Parth BUT he always believed that the FIVE were ONE. However, before going to the game Yudi did not consult anyone or take any advice into account. He charged right in. And who gave him the right to stake his brothers? The VERY brothers who would have staked their life for him? And it is even said that Bhim did protest and say that he would break the hands that staked their queen BUT Arjun stopped him saying that the brothers had to be united.
I do not think Yudi knew that DPadi would be molested and dragged into court and the Kurus would try to disrobe his beloved queen. He perhaps thought everyone was as noble as him. Or else HOW do you explain the fact that sakshat dharmputra can stake the most beautiful woman as she is said to be? It is said that Yudi's innate inbuilt goodness soemtimes bordered on foolishness? perhaps there lies the answer.
DrModel thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#5
Perhaps then, my query needs to be--WHY did Arjun not stand up and save his love? It is said that even though he was deeply devoted to Subhi, he still loved DPadi the most from the depths of his heart? So WHY did he not stand up? was he not ready then? he did not have the pashupatastra or the divyastras then? or was it no the right time? or was he following protocol?? what protocol lets such brave warriors not save their beloved queen? the fact that they were slaves??then how is that dharma?or is it??or did he too believe Kanha would help? and what IF (and thats a BIG IF) Kanha would not have come to help??It is said he ALWAYS comes to help, but that was then in that yug? for that specific lady who it is said was shakti (the same shakti who vasudev swapped his 8th son with and who wen Kansa tried to kill shot up in the sky as ma durga. It is said that that girl was born from the fire as DPadi to help the Lord in saving the earth from the immoral Kshatriyas)
Anyways, I digress, and I guess the zinda lash aspect will play itself out. The promos at the start of MB showed Arjun closing his eyes and a tear falling. I wonder how it will play out.
amritat thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#6

Completely agree with u.

NO WOMAN deserves to be molested for rejecting a man.
N, yes Yudisthir should not have staked anybody, not even his brothers.
N not only Arjun, all the other brothers should have protested.
But you see, there's a peculiar thing in Mahabharat.
And that is, words, promises, oaths are given more importance than righteousness.
We see Bhishm siding with evil, to keep hi oath.
Karna sided with evil, to keep his oath of friendship.
Arjun agreed to SHARE his wife, to keep his mother's words.
The same thing happened here too.
The Pandavas were bound by the rules of slavery, n their eldest brother's mistake. N hence, they let this horrible thing happen to a woman.
I personally don't support this. No rule can be more important than wife's honour.
But I guess, that is the peculiarity of the epic.
BLR_babe thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#7
staking a women is and was wrong for ever ..
u shd also consider a gambler's mindset .. a gambler always believes he can win and get it all back . they always think another chance will turn luck my way and keep gambling away drawing themselves into greater debt .. yudi at that point after losing himself as well as if bros saw a ' credit line' in terms of drau and to win everything back ...

drau b4 being dragged qustioned the messenger when yudi staked me b4 or after he lost himself ' .. even after being dragged questions ' am i his property ' ' if wife is considered as property i belong to 4 others , did they agree ' , ' even then how can a man losing everthing including himself can stake me' .. most of the things u r asking .. no one had any answer then i dont think anyon can answer now 😒

dice game proved already known fact younger pandavas would never go against the word of yudi .. not even for love of drau .. and yudi was bound by law .. which meant he has no rights since he lost

this also points the weakness of men .. once they lose their power /job / money they become wimps ...
Edited by BlrBabe - 11 years ago
DrModel thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#8
It is said that the time Yudi spent in the forest, he did penance for staking DPadi and his brothers and atoned for his sins. He apparently gained a lot of spiritual merit during this time.
Also, that is why to atone for his sin when Yama asked him to pick only one brother to live after the water incident he picked Nakul?
I think there lies the difference between that yug and this,
In that yug words meant a LOT; these may be words from the ramayan but PRAN jaye par vacchan na jaye I guess.
I just wonder, would the unity between the five be divided if one had protested and they knew this and so kept quiet?
I also wonder if Krishna knew this would happen which is why he went off to fight with Shalva?
the thing is: that dice game should never have happened, Shakuni should never have played for Duri and Yudi should never have agreed to go.
Edited by DrModel - 11 years ago
Arijit007 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#9
yup, i agree with you guys, but, if that event wouldn't had happened then what would have made pandavas especialy yudhisthir angry on kauravs.
srishtisingh thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#10
k ket me try.yudi did his first mistake by accepting invitation and then went on betting everything he had.may b when he realized that he had gone too far he yearned to get everything back but he had only him and his bros.if he left the game he would not have had anything (not his kingdom) .so he tried to make up for that by betting his bros and himself. when he lost himself he did not have any right to protest.if he did then technically he would b breaking rules so two options b a matryr or get arrested for violating rules.drau too represented a possible escape from this situation so he took that bait.nw when that disgusting situation arised there were two ways before him:he defies his king and accept the consequences because technically he had lost by rules so he didnot have any right,then whole hastinapur as well as his indraprastha against him.anybody would not stand for him because technically kauravas were right. or accept everything
now let us analyse his bros situation :if they protested and went against his bros on this,kauravas would have gotten their long lost wish.their strength was they always stood together whatever situation was.their protests would have further weakened yudi political position.so general message to everybody would have been"are iske to bhai bhi iske sath ni h to hum iska sath de".
yep I know this everything sounds disgusting but I think in this whole scenario the mind played a crucial role than heart and conscience

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