Gulabiya vs Vikram - Page 2

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pyar-ishk thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#11
I just have a chance to read your awesome post

I don't think is out of place of TVS to challenge Gulabiya at all to me it make's it fair game. TVS has shown a lot of patience for Gulabiya since she realized Sugni loves Vik. I love that Gulabiya is protective of her daughter but am sorry am not a fan of her methods at all. Gulabiya come's of as borderline rude and condescending. If she had the issues she has now I might have understood but this is since confession is like she was just looking or praying for something so Sugni wouldn't be with Vik.

What annoys me more about the situation is that Gulabiya has forgotten how good & respectful TVS has been to Sugni since day one and her family. TVS even picked up her lifeless body of that cart and put her in his car to take her to the hospital. Vik saved Sugni from those Thakurs trying to do her sar dhakai even after Gulabiya watch her daughter dancing being helpless cause she couldn't stop it. Today he's lower then dirt cause he showed he's human who also has fear like everyone else by losing someone who holds is precious in his life. TVS has never used his superiority to Gulabiya ever time she comes barging in the mansion demanding or insulting him in front of his family.

Why don' Gulabiya use the same determination she used to find out about Reva and see if TVS is really telling the truth. The woman refuse to believe anything he says and just wants to cut of the wedding.

I wonder if was TJ who was ordering Sugni to do a sar dhakai would Gulabiya be facing him like that or on her knees begging him to pardon Sugni.

Vik has been with Sugi alone many times even with all her suspicion but now Gulabiya is forgetting all the values she thought her daughter and also even thinking Vik would stoop so low.

Vik is wrong on all levels for concealing the truth from Sugni no excuses on that but as Sugni mother Gulabiya should've understood and said I know you love my daughter but this goes against everything she wants if you love her the way you say you do then tell her the truth and let her decide but no she wants to challenge him and say she promise to break off the wedding. So when successful the marriage off what will become of Sugni? 😕

The only person I feel sorry of is Sugni cause the two people she loves in the world are playing her as a pawn. CHECKMATE

Edited by pyar-ishk - 13 years ago
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Posted: 13 years ago
#12
At this point I don't want Sugni to get married to either TVS or Adi. Adi is not strong enough as a person and TVS is causing problems between mother and daughter. I think Sugni should go back to Gulabiya because Gulabiya loves Sugni to a point where she is willing to risk her daughter's hatred.
TVS is being selfish in his love for Sugni and fails to see the consequences of his actions.One lie is good enough to destroy a relationship.
I just want Sugni to be a free and independent woman.As for marriage these two Thakurs are not the only options.😊
Hillylove thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#13
Pyar-ishk

Thanks and I must say your post was also awesome. I love how you go to the point about Gulabiya's behaviour, while I have been dancing around it trying to see her POV, still knowing she is not totally right.
She has forgotten all the things Vikram has done for her family.

However, it is not surprising that her reaction is this way. She has perceived knowledge of truth from fiction and obviously Vikram's heart😆 Some people have this thing about evidences being against someone, and accept it as truth without thought or investigation.

Also, some people tend not to remember all the good you have done, once your character becomes questionable even once. I had hoped she would have done more to find out the truth as well.

I guess at the same time, we have to give her some of the benefit of the doubt that she is a Mother and it is also the motivation of her behaviour among other things.

When it comes to TJ who should have been a real Father to Sugni, Gulabiya has no strength. She did not have strength for her greedy siblings and their wives either. The one man who has done some good for her family, she is so quick to judge, until she really found something to judge him for.

I agree with you that Gulabiya could have taken a better approach to dealing with Vikram, instead of challenging him, I found it quite unnecessary and could only lead to the same reaction she received from him. Sugni is caught in between a battle of wills, by the two most important people in her life.

I feel sorry for all three characters, somehow all will be hurt.

I can't stop loving my Vikram though😆





Saviosaraff thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#14
Well said hillydee, Laila and Radev, Our TVS is a man to reckon with any girls dream. Gulabiya's overprotective approach because of her own insecurities is ruining her daughters life. Gulabiya feared for her daughter even before Reva Manzil came into picture. Even after TVS promised her in front of his whole family that he would marry Sugni, she still did not believe him and kept nagging her daughter which made Sugni run to TVS for confirmation and that brought them even more closer while distancing mother and daughter. Infact the moment Gulabiya met Reva TVS had told her that she still did not know the whole truth. But our G was so hellbent on breaking up the relation that she refused to listen to TVS side of the story. TVS had no other option but to challenge her. Gulabiyan's frustration and insecurities is making her take all the wrong decisions. To make matters worse she is again going to force Sugni to choose bet her love and her mother today.
Yes love is blind and our Sugni is madly in love but with that love also comes a first time where a man has shown concern for her, has stood up for her and has protected her. It is the first time she has not seen lust in a man's eyes but love and concern for her. How can she not trust such a man who had a no. of opportunities to take advantage of her but never did so.
As for the weird Dhanuma she is a double crosser. she tries to get Sugni killed at the same time she tries to convince Gulabiya not to tell Sugni about Reva knowing it will break the SugVi relationship. I personally feel she knew all along that Reva was alive but wanted TVS to enjoy his freedom, but the moment she realised his intention to marry a bedni she brought Reva back into the picture. This show is all about the life of the Bednis and people like Dhanuma will never want a Bedni to lead a respectable life and be an example for others to follow. She never wanted to let the Bedni work in the haveli and earn her livelihood so letting a Bedni become a Thakurayin was out of question. Dhanuma is never going to let that happen.
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Posted: 13 years ago
#15
Pyar-ishk
Your post is awesome so very well analysed.
atria thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#16
Very nice post. 👏
Somewhere I understand Gulabiya's problem, initially she was totally imprinting her own anxieties on her daughter, the class difference is so stark that she couldn't believe Vik would ever marry Sugni. The thing is, now she has a valid point against the marriage, but having been so negative earlier, she can't convince Sugni without solid proof. If she had been more positive before, she could have said to Sugni-- I've always supported your and thakur malik's relationship, if I am asking you to pause now you need to think why. But here Sugni thinks its her prejudice against the thakurs at work.😕

Vikram, yes he should have told the truth about Reva the moment he found out. But he had a moment of weakness there. I believe initially he didn't come in with a proposal because he likes to do things with minimum fuss, and he knew the proposal would cause his family to go bonkers, so he wanted to lead into it gradually, letting everyone take the time to get accustomed to the idea of him and Sugni. I'm unclear of when he started to speed up his courtship, did his dance with her occur around the time Reva was found? So when Reva was dead, he wanted to savour the courtship as it were, but once she was found alive, he was confused about what to do next, but didn't want to lose Sugni at any cost. That would explain the sudden urgency of his actions. Now he's caught between a rock and a hard place. I think he finds it hard to divorce Reva because she is so dependent and helpless. But he is also in love with Sugni. Of course his actions towards Gulabiya are a bit harsh, but would we rather he cried in front of her? His strong personality is the biggest attraction of this serial, and its good that even in this twisted situation he is attempting to solve it rather than passively letting the women deal with things like in most serials.👏
Kalapi thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#17

🤗 Hilly Dear , as usual I love reading your post, although I haven't had the time to response lately, but I have the time now, so will pen in my thoughts 😃

Originally posted by: hillydee

Hi Everyone!!


Please this post is not to create tension, please enjoy and respond if you like. A good debate is healthy for the heart.😆

I know it may seem out of place for Vikram to challenge Gulabiya, but let us say for argument sake, Gulabiya did have her priorities wrong. Wouldn't you want a man who is not weak and will stand up for you no matter who it is? Time and time again, we watch these serials, with these mamas boys, who watch their love interest be abused by their family or society, and they are silent, isn't Vikram a pleasant change to these boys? I really did not see a right out disrespect towards Gulabiya, only a man who decided he is not backing down, not even to her Mother. Let us face it, the only fears Vikram seems to have is losing Sugni, and letting down Reva, so Gulabiya seems like the least of his problems.

Yes, I for one love seeing a strong man, and as you and me both knows, Indian Tellyland doesn't have many, nor does the telly land have a realistic grey man who can be lead. For the Indian audience, Hero/heroines must ne the goody goody ones.

But having said this, I say the way open TVS challenged Gulabiya was more an open defiance, of do what you might, but Sugni will not listen to you. He knew he have her wrapped around his little fingers. He knew what he is doing isn't right and that if Sugni knew the truth - will walk away, and wasn't backing out for the right reason's namely marriage to Sugni will be illegitimate.

Now, Varun acting skills are mature and exceptional. He just knows how to convey a range of emotions and in 1 scene, he expresses a variety of acting skill. In a sense, I am getting greedy and I want Cvs to really work this time, giving us a character that is hard to be judgmental about. But then we all know how Cvs can mess up too. So, I am just hoping for the best 😃

On the other hand, even though my personal view is that Gulabiya is over doing it, due to her insecurities, I believe she is truly not aware of her behaviour and how her methods are further distancing Sugni.
I think it is sickness(not really a bad one) that most parents, especially Mothers have when it comes to their children, they impose their past experiences on the lives of their children. Often enough, our fears somehow bring the laws of negativity towards our children to experience same. Maybe I am superstitious, but how often with our own parents, do we hear, don't do this or that, and somehow we draw the same situation they are talking about. I often wonder why this happens.

Yes, parents can be over-protecting when it comes to kids. I know firsthand😆, and it is the basic protective instinct all parents share. Yes, those instincts might also be counter-protective and prevent kids to try out new things and experience the world in their way. How will the kids will learn, if the kids don't experience the good with the bad? Very True...

But here Gulabiya, to begin with was happy with the fact that TVS was going to marry Sugni. She, as a mother and a bedni, first made sure with the open promise from TVS that he has the intentions to marry and was not just leading Sugni into anything else. She didn't even give much of a thought about her chance encounter with TVS near Reva (where she saw him). But when TVS denied his being in Reva the second time ' it was then Gulabiya became suspicious. Any parent could be at that point. In an Indian setting where arrangement is so prevalent, the girl's parent after meeting the boys family for the first time, will conduct checks on the boy and his family . To me Gulabiya, had to make sure things were as white as it seems'

.
Often enough parents forget the values they taught their own children, when they see them in trouble. Why spend so many years teaching them the right values, and in every situation they face doubt your own taught values? The Sugni that we met from day one, was a principled, strong willed, ambitious and determined young lady and that is who Vikram fell in love with. Sugni never wanted to live the life of a Bedni, so I believe Gulabiya should trust the daughter she knows and allow her to make her own mistakes(if that is what she is doing). We know within ourselves, that it is the most annoying thing when our parents are hell bent on preaching to us, and we feel misunderstood and that we are not trusted.😆 No matter how great their intentions are. When you are in love for the first time, no one can tell you anything, everything is beautiful, until your hearts becomes broken. They say it is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. I think Vikram Singh should be written beside that saying.😆
If, I were Gulabiya, I could do the same too, because, here she now knows that what TVS is doing is not right, she has proofs in her hand now, but can't prove them becuase TVS is clever and has the resources to quickly implement changes. Besides with the loyal Dhanuma to aid him and the prevalent prejudice against Bedni, nothing is working in her favour. So, did not find her character out of place...a girl's mom should be over-protective than under in my POV...

Vikram is a mature man, not a boy, he will not succumb to Gulabiya like a little boy to be scolded, "Leave my daughter." Even if we believe he is wrong, he is still an experienced MAN, and Gulabiya seems to be forgetting that. It can't be easy for him to fight his family, the Thakurs and Gulabiya to marry a Bedni, not knowing how to divorce and insane woman without looking like the bad guy, What should he really do? Vikram is a man with many responsibilities, he has a family to take care of, a wife who cannot take care of herself and his responsibilities to society. He is fighting to keep Sugni with all this on his shoulder, not to mention he has shown many instances of getting rid of all those responsibilities just for her.

TVS being mature, itself is a problem in a sense. He isn't a boy unsure of the world. He knows and is experience in the ways of the world to the point that he can manipulate it to his advantage. That to a mother is a cause for concern. We might say TVS is respectable, but to Gulabiya the bedni, she hasn't seen any thakur who hasn't taken advantage of a bedni yet. For her to judge TVS otherwise that too where precious daughter are is concern is very difficult. That too, right now when she knows that TVS is married. Besides how will Gulabiya know that Thakurain is mentally unstable or TVS relationships with her? Even experiences psychiatrist misses the sign of mental illness ' and all indications to her, Thakurain seems healthy.

Beside, does she as a mom really wishes her daughter (who aspires to go away from the bedni tradition) to become a second wife? May not be, in the truest sense, Indian (or the hindu culture) don't have divorces (we marry for 7 yrs). So, her conflicts are much deeper. Let see if Cvs shows us how an uneducated women in rural India really thinks these day? Besides, in a sense, thakurs are so powerful that they can easily get s girl (they can just pick them up and polices will do nothing against them), but for a Bedni to go against a powerful Thakur takes a lot of courage, since then no one will support them..So Gulabiya know surely what she is up against now...

I am a lady, I would tell the truth, but I can't think for a powerful Thakur who is going against the world to marry his forbidden love and not wanting to throw his insane wife in the streets.

Whether we want to love him or hate him, he is something to be reckoned with.👏


Edited by Kalapi - 13 years ago
Hillylove thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#18
Hi Kalapi🤗

Excellent Post, always love to read your point of view. I am definitely looking into your POV from a Mother's perspective, and your points are valid. My issue is more her approach and in the beginning I was not really getting her enthusiasm towards Vikram. At the same time, I understand totally if she wanted to make sure his intentions were honourable, but there is something off about her methods. I think I here approach is also guided by her past experience. Her past and Sugni's present (before we found out Vikam was still married), was somewhat different. TJ was never good to Gulabiya and he was straight up married, impregnated her and never supported Sugni in any way at all. Vikram on the other hand was nice to Sugni and her family from day one, so there is an exception to Vikram. Now that we found out he is married, considering his consistent behaviour, could she not at least try to find out the truth?
I am more getting I told you so from her attitude it seems deeper than just being a worried Mother.

Sometimes, I think as a Mother we assume all Mothers think the same, but not all approach parenting the same, some motives are not healthy for the children. I think Gulabiya is one of those parents who may love their child, but their way of life and thinking is not healthy for them.
Remember in the beginning she was going to let Sugni do Rai for the Thakurs, but it is Sugni determination that made her eventually support her. So, that is why I am confused, she was willing for Sugni to do the Rai before, but before we knew Vikram's wife was still alive, she was questioning Vikram's motive?

I need some more time to understand Gulabiya, she seems a bit complicated in how she thinks and operates, but maybe I am looking into this too much.

As you said, I hope the CVS utilize the good idea of this show, and not ruin it for us.
Edited by hillydee - 13 years ago
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Posted: 13 years ago
#19

Originally posted by: hillydee

Hi Kalapi🤗


Excellent Post, always love to read your point of view. I am definitely looking into your POV from a Mother's perspective, and your points are valid. My issue is more her approach and in the beginning I was not really getting her enthusiasm towards Vikram. At the same time, I understand totally if she wanted to make sure his intentions were honourable, but there is something off about her methods. I think I here approach is also guided by her past experience. Her past and Sugni's present (before we found out Vikam was still married), was somewhat different. TJ was never good to Gulabiya and he was straight up married, impregnated her and never supported Sugni in any way at all. Vikram on the other hand was nice to Sugni and her family from day one, so there is an exception to Vikram. Now that we found out he is married, considering his consistent behaviour, could she not at least try to find out the truth?
I am more getting I told you so from her attitude it seems deeper than just being a worried Mother.

Sometimes, I think as a Mother we assume all Mothers think the same, but not all approach parenting the same, some motives are not healthy for the children. I think Gulabiya is one of those parents who may love their child, but their way of life and thinking is not healthy for them.
Remember in the beginning she was going to let Sugni do Rai for the Thakurs, but it is Sugni determination that made her eventually support her. So, that is why I am confused, she was willing for Sugni to do the Rai before, but before we knew Vikram's wife was still alive, she was questioning Vikram's motive?

I need some more time to understand Gulabiya, she seems a bit complicated in how she thinks and operates, but maybe I am looking into this too much.

As you said, I hope the CVS utilize the good idea of this show, and not ruin it for us.

Hilly dear, always enjoy these healthy discussions with you.

Well, I actually appreciate where Gulabiya is coming from, as a bedni at 14 yrs (?) of age taking up the responsibility of a family to support. To her this is the only form of work she was capable to do (actually happens even now in lot of areas of India where sex trade is very common). Males in the family were useless, rather they encouraged such a trade because there is enough money and they don't have to do much in terms of manual labor as long as the women are active. Hukum's intentions to start Sugni in the trade also arose from his feeling that Gulabiya, who is prized in the profession is getting old. One thing I never understood was whether Gulabiya never wanted Sugni to be in this trade (except for I instance, and I will come to it later) because she felt degraded herself doing it (but she didn't know any better and all neighbors were in the trade too and in that sense the trade by itself wasn't looked down upon) or because Sugni, herself didn't want to be in such a trade (that came from Sugni's self respect and was inborn) and she made sure that Gulabiya understood her perspective.

Anyway, even before Gulo knew TVS to be married, she never trusted him rather saw all that TVS did for Sugni as might have an ulterior motive to all the apparent goodness. She had that feeling especially because it was apparent in the village that Sugni will not follow into the ancient trade just for money, so the man need to 'lure' Sugni with something much more precious as a sense of gratitude or even better love. So, Gulo made sure that, that Love was not just love, but will lead to marriage and hence the promise in front of TVS family.

It was only that instance when Gulo was not well (although, she still wanted to do rai) that she allowed Sugni to perform the dance. But we can't forget what happened before. Sugni was adamant that Gulo will not dance, the mamas were pressurizing them purely for the monetary gains (although we can't forget the importance of money to the family – they are not the saving types, so even if they earn well they spend more eating and drinking) and at one point was ready to start the minor girl in the trade just because mamas felt there weren't any other options. It was then Sugni decided to do the Rai and Gulo was ok with. It was definitely better for Sugni who is the adult to do the Rai then a minor girl, if it came to that…my POV

The questions, isn't about whether Gulo is right or wrong in being over protective, but the very fact is that TVS (now that the truth is out) is doing what every other thakur did in the past to bednis, in the name of Love…we shouldn't forget even JS was in so called 'love" when he took in Gulo, it is another thing that that very 'love' disappeared once she was in bed. So, to her all men only expect one thing from them and once that is fulfilled they leave them. There haven't been any other instances of things being different. Think about her younger brother who wanted a girl child, not because of love for girls' rather because when of age she will follow into the ancient trade and support her father with the money earned. If this is what is prevalent all around, can we blame her if she took all the goodness TVS showed them with a bit of salt?? How as a mother, Gulo will make sure that same fate isn't waiting for Sugni?? Now to her, TVS always was overly nice doing things without expecting much in return and now the fact that he wants to marry her when the first wife is still alive, is only adding up, as to her now TVS was never true, rather all his goodness was only leading to one thing that she knew with all her life.

Hillylove thumbnail
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Posted: 13 years ago
#20
Kalapi I see your points, I can understand your POV.

However, I don't feel that TJ ever loved Gulabiya, I believe he was just following custom. The only Thakur other than Vikram I felt was in love is Adi's Father and of course the other Thakurs who left their wives. If you can even call those relationships love. Why I believe Vikram's love is true, is that he did not know his wife was still alive up until recently after he fell in love with Sugni, plus he was never in love with the wife to begin with.

TJ told Gulabiya she was a mistake, plus he never supported her for about 8yrs I believe. That man was never in love, Gulabiya was just a paid mistress he fancied more than the norm initially.

Just my usual thoughts

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