Inconsistencies, contradictions within the Mahabharata.

Ashwini_D thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#1
]Since many among us are fairly well-versed with the K.M Ganguli translation of the epic, I would like to create a post which lists out all the inconsistencies and contradictions within the text that people have come across. At the moment I can remember the contradictory citations that some members had posted on the forum regarding Karna's role in Bheem's poisoning. I would request members to post those contradictory citations here.
I guess this would also help in resolving some long standing disputes, where we also discuss and debate (peacefully, ofcourse) whether those citations really contradict each other to begin with.

Edit: I think citations from other translations like the one by Bibek Debroy, if people have access to it, would also make the discussion richer and not just based on one translation of a version.

P.S-I think we can safely assume that most of these apparent contradictions are due to the nature of the text itself (as it had been passed down orally for generations before being written down, which would help explain the inconsistencies that have crept in), and not due to the translation. If you think that the latter is the case, then please do make a note of it while posting and we can discuss it further.
Edited by Ashwini_D - 11 years ago

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Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#2
I ascribe this due to the terms under which Vyasa composed this epic. Remember, he had asked Ganesh to write this for him, and Ganesh put to him a condition that he couldn't stop dictating, or else he'd withdraw. Vyasa put a counter condition that Ganesh had to understand whatever was being dictated b4 he wrote further. That gave Vyasa breathing room to compose verses.

But herein lies the rub. In order to compose verses that confounded Ganesh, Vyasa had to do a lot of literary gymnastics, and in the process, mucked around w/ the facts a lot - writing contradictory things in different places. Like in Adi Parva, a reading of it would make it look like Surya dev just handed Karna over to Kunti & disappeared, whereas Vana Parva mentioned that Kunti carried him in her womb, and had spies tracking him as he floated downstream.

Essentially, this exercise has made me lose most of my respect for Vyasa's work, since it's heavily compromised by the games he was busy playing w/ Ganesh, rather than meticulously put together something true to history. Unlike Valmiki, who painstakingly put together his works on his own, and faithfully reproduced whatever happened, regardless of how it looked for Rama, Vyasa is all over the place, which is why we have citation wars in this forum and elsewhere.
Edited by .Vrish. - 11 years ago
TheWatcher thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#3
Contradiction : Abhimanyu's age.

Lord Soma earlier states that Abhimanyu is his ansh and he would only till the 16th year.

..." And he who was known as the mighty Varchas, the son of Soma, became Abhimanyu of wonderful deeds, the son of Arjuna. And before his incarnation, O king, the god Soma had said these words to the celestials, 'I cannot give (part with) my son. He is dearer to me than life itself. Let this be the compact and let it be not transgressed. The destruction of the Asuras on earth is the work of the celestials, and, therefore, it is our work as well. Let this Varchas, therefore, go thither, but let him not stay there long. Nara, whose companion is Narayana, will be born as Indra's son and indeed, will be known as Arjuna, the mighty son of Pandu. This boy of mine shall be his son and become a mighty car warrior in his boyhood. And let him, ye best of immortals, stay on earth for sixteen years. And when he attaineth to his sixteenth year, the battle shall take place in which all who are born of your portions shall achieve the destruction of mighty warriors... "

But, Abhimanyu is born before Khandav-Dahan and Arjuna had carried the Gandeeva for around 33 years

..." Then Subhadra, the favourite sister of Kesava, gave birth to an illustrious son, like Puloma's daughter, (the queen of heaven) bringing forth Jayanta. And the son that Subhadra brought forth was of long arms, broad chest, and eyes as large as those of a bull. That hero and oppressor of foes came to be called Abhimanyu. And the son of Arjuna, that grinder of foes and bull among men, was called Abhimanyu because he was fearless and wrathful..."

"...Three and thirty years have passed away since the time, when Arjuna, having invited Agni, gratified him at Khandava...'

So what is the final age of Abhimanyu?, was he around 33 or 16?.
Edited by TheWatcher - 11 years ago
Ashwini_D thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#4

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

I ascribe this due to the terms under which Vyasa composed this epic. Remember, he had asked Ganesh to write this for him, and Ganesh put to him a condition that he couldn't stop dictating, or else he'd withdraw. Vyasa put a counter condition that Ganesh had to understand whatever was being dictated b4 he wrote further. That gave Vyasa breathing room to compose verses.


But herein lies the rub. In order to compose verses that confounded Ganesh, Vyasa had to do a lot of literary gymnastics, and in the process, mucked around w/ the facts a lot - writing contradictory things in different places. Like in Adi Parva, a reading of it would make it look like Surya dev just handed Karna over to Kunti & disappeared, whereas Vana Parva mentioned that Kunti carried him in her womb, and had spies tracking him as he floated downstream.

Essentially, this exercise has made me lose most of my respect for Vyasa's work, since it's heavily compromised by the games he was busy playing w/ Ganesh, rather than meticulously put together something true to history. Unlike Valmiki, who painstakingly put together his works on his own, and faithfully reproduced whatever happened, regardless of how it looked for Rama, Vyasa is all over the place, which is why we have citation wars in this forum and elsewhere.


I think the above piece about Vyasa dictating the epic to Ganesha could have been added to the epic as a way to explain the parts where the epic meanders significantly from the main plot or the ongoing sub-plot, as it has been excised from the critical edition.
Edited by Ashwini_D - 11 years ago
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#5
Abhimanyu was indeed 16 years old. There are many indications in the text itself.

"Dhritarashtra said, 'Hearing, O Sanjaya, of the slaughter of the son (Abhimanyu), yet in his minority, of that lion among men, (viz., Arjuna), my heart seems to break into pieces. Cruel, indeed, are the duties of Kshatriyas as laid down by the legislators, in as much as brave men, desirous of sovereignty scrupled not to shoot their weapons at even a child. O son of Gavalgana, tell me how so many warriors, accomplished in arms, slew that child who, though brought up in luxury, yet careered over the field so fearlessly. Tell me, O Sanjaya, how our warriors behaved in

p. 78

battle with Subhadra's son immeasurable energy who had penetrated into our car-array.'

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m07/m07031.htm


Dhritarashtra said, A mere child in years, brought up in great luxury, proud of the strength of his arms, accomplished in battle, endued with great heroism, the perpetuator of his race, and prepared to lay down his life--when Abhimanyu penetrated into the Katirava army, borne on his three-years old steeds of spirited mettle, was there any of great warriors, in Yudhishthira's army, that followed the son of Arjuna?'

Ashwini_D thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#6

Originally posted by: ..RamKiJanaki..

Abhimanyu was indeed 16 years old. There are many indications in the text itself.

"Dhritarashtra said, 'Hearing, O Sanjaya, of the slaughter of the son (Abhimanyu), yet in his minority, of that lion among men, (viz., Arjuna), my heart seems to break into pieces. Cruel, indeed, are the duties of Kshatriyas as laid down by the legislators, in as much as brave men, desirous of sovereignty scrupled not to shoot their weapons at even a child. O son of Gavalgana, tell me how so many warriors, accomplished in arms, slew that child who, though brought up in luxury, yet careered over the field so fearlessly. Tell me, O Sanjaya, how our warriors behaved in

p. 78

battle with Subhadra's son immeasurable energy who had penetrated into our car-array.'

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m07/m07031.htm


Dhritarashtra said, A mere child in years, brought up in great luxury, proud of the strength of his arms, accomplished in battle, endued with great heroism, the perpetuator of his race, and prepared to lay down his life--when Abhimanyu penetrated into the Katirava army, borne on his three-years old steeds of spirited mettle, was there any of great warriors, in Yudhishthira's army, that followed the son of Arjuna?'


Thanks for the post. But are we safe in assuming that minority, by definition in the Dwapar Yug, means as being under 16?
TheWatcher thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#7
Actually, the above citation does not prove anything, a 33 year old Abhimanyu would still be a minor against a 70-90 year old person(s) ( Karna, Drona etc.). As I said, it is contradictory, the two citations given by me state both of the possibilities.

Its just one's personal preference - If you want to beleive a god then he was 16 years, if you want to go by logic - then Abhimanyu was 33 + years
Edited by TheWatcher - 11 years ago
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#8
^^ Why is it so illogical that Abhimanyu was 16 years old? 😳 People back then fought in wars in their teens if it was necessary. Moreover, why is "believing God" have to be the opposite of so-called logic? Isn't the whole Mahabharat itself a sacred text? So if one wants to be all rational and not believe in any of the sacredness of the epic, it's kind of difficult because there are divine interventions throughout the epic.
...Diala... thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#9
it is illogical because in the first year of exile, Bhima talks about Abhimanyu's discomfort in their plight.. when Abhimanyu was supposed to be 3 years old.. does that sound logical by any chance?
TheWatcher thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#10
The logical possibility of Abhimanyu being 33 year is very high, he was born before Khandav- Dahan and Arjuna carried Gaandeev for 33 Years so that makes Abhimanyu 33 years, this is logical, him being 16 is not, no citation say that he fought when he was 16.

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