Duryodhana-not just a villain - Page 7

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Posted: 11 years ago
#61

Originally posted by: panchaali

"very evil manner"?
Come on, that is tooo strong an adjective to define a laughter.

It was considered in those days ( and it was not just an innocent laughter)

In Sanskrit there's a sloka Atithi Deva Bahva (Your Guest is God)

Insulting him was like insulting God and insulting a man by his linage was like disrobing a woman (was considered in those days)

But there are some people, who have certain inborn traits that make them more vulnerable to evil.

Come on now you are making Duryadhan Dwapar Yuga's Voldemort 😆



Voldermort is better in comparision to Duryodhan ...Pls
Dont intermix athithi devo bhavo for a molester
Draupadi should cite athiti devo bhavo wat abt sanskars of duryodhan who earlier commited crime of attempting to burn his cousins alive
Poison bheem
I dont get ur logic.
No amount of justification would justify act of duryodhan..Its similar to present scenario of society that always find fault in victim,wat about taming beast inside man..
Its coz such absurd support coming from people to shield the perpetrators of heinous
crime..
that still draupadi exists and is being disrobed every second every minute..
Utter insensitivity


Edited by Gods_child - 11 years ago
Medha.S thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#62

Originally posted by: BeautifulBillo

Erm Sri Krishna called Duri the most evil man on earth in the MB

So are we questioning God's judgement too now???

Krishna's eyes blazed again, "You are no innocent, Duryodhana. You are the most evil man that draws breath in this world. Why do you try to deceive us, or is it yourself you need to deceive? Or do your sins weigh on you so heavily that you no longer know what dharma is? That you no longer see right from wrong, good from evil, darkness from light?" They all shifted uneasily in their places to hear him; no conscience in that sabha, save Vidura's, was clear. Krishna said, "Duryodhana, you are beneath contempt," and fell silent.

Menon, Ramesh (2006-07-20). THE MAHABHARATA: A Modern Rendering, Vol 2 iUniverse. Kindle Edition.


And even if someone does not believe in god or does not believe in Krishna, it is not very hard to see that Duryodhna was not good nor nor fair.

I mean i can find so many faults in the statement that "he was fair" that it hurts my head.

He deceived the Pandavas throughout the gambling match.

Decieved his own father by telling him that he just wants to send away the Pandavas and Kunti for sometime while he was planning to murder his cousins and Kunti behind his back.

Shakuni was not the one who raised Duryodhna, he had his own kids to worry about.

Shakuni was never the one to put ideas in Duryodhnas mind.

Duryodhna was the one who came up with heinous plans and Shakuni, Karna, Dushasan were always their to do everything to please their 'LORD'.

Shakuni only helped him in executing his plans.

Duryodhna wanted Indraprastha, not Shakuni.

Duryodhna was jealous of the Pandavas and their kingdom and wealth. Shakuni helped in acquiring it.

Do all sweet little children who get bullied by cousins, decide that the best way to get back would be Poison them and throw them in the river?

No! they complain to their parents.

Shakuni was not even involved in the poisoning.

Shakuni didnt teach Duryodhna to make lewd perverted gestures at his sister-in-law.


Next time, when you get startled by someone( Especially your relative) tripping in front you and end up laughing, DO NOT ACCEPT AN INVITATION from this relative for he might try to humiliate you and strip you naked in his home in front of his guest.


If he really was so fair, why was he pouting and whining around like a brat threatening that he will poison himself, hang himself, enter in fire etc etc. if Pandavas came back from the exile?

There were some rules that he had agreed to when Pandavas were sent to exile.

What did Duryodhna do? He 'DESPAIRED' that Pandavas will come back for their own Kingdom() and Karna couldn't take his Lord being so upset so he told them that :-

They all will gear up and march to the forest on their chariots. They will QUITELY kill the Pandavas.

Only after that will Duryodhna and all of them will have peace while the Pandavas will "disappear" on some unknown journey forever.

They will be a match for the pandavas as long as PANDAVAS WERE IN DESPAIR AND WITHOUT HELP.

If Duryodhna really was so fair then why did he agreed and they were stopped on their way by Ved Vyas.


Duryodhna was a growna** man, not some simpleton toddler. He was adult enough to have a mind of his own.
No Shakuni, Gandhari and Pitamah had control over him.





"If ever I behold the sons of Pritha return to the city, I shall again be emaciated by renouncing food and drink, even though there be no obstacle in my path! And I shall either take poison or hang myself, either enter the pyre or kill myself with my own weapons. But I shall never be able to behold the sons of Pandu in prosperity!

"Sakuni said, 'O king, O lord of the earth, what folly hath taken possession of thee! The Pandavas have gone to the forest, having given a particular pledge, so that what thou apprehendest can never take place! O bull of the Bharata race, the Pandavas ever abide by the truth. They will never, therefore, accept the words of thy father! If however, accepting the commands of the king, they come back to the capital, violating their vow, even this would be our conduct, viz., assuming, an aspect of neutrality, and in apparent obedience to the will of the monarch, we will closely watch the Pandavas, keeping our counsels!'

p. 19

"Dussasana said, 'O uncle of great intelligence, it is even as thou sayest! The words of wisdom thou utterest always recommend themselves to me!'"Karna said, 'O Duryodhana, all of us seek to accomplish thy will and, O king, I see that unanimity at present prevaileth among us! The sons of Pandu, with passions under complete control, will never return without passing away the promised period. If, however, they do return from failing sense, do thou defeat them again at dice.'

"Vaisampayana said, 'Thus addressed by Karna, king Duryodhana with cheerless heart, averted his face from his counsellors. Marking all this, Karna expanding his beautiful eyes, and vehemently gesticulating in anger, haughtily addressed Duryodhana and Dussasana and Suvala's son saying, 'Ye princes, know ye my opinion! We are all servants of the king (Duryodhana) waiting upon him with joined palms! We should, therefore, do what is agreeable to him! But we are not always able to seek his welfare with promptness and activity (owing to our dependence on Dhritarashtra)! But let us now, encased in mail and armed with our weapons, mount our cars and go in a body to slay the Pandavas now living in the forest! After the Pandavas have been quieted and after they have gone on the unknown journey, both ourselves and the sons of Dhritarashtra will find peace! As long as they are in distress, as long as they are in sorrow, as long as they are destitute of help, so long are we a match for them! This is my mind!'

'Hearing those words of the charioteer's son, they repeatedly applauded him, and at last exclaimed, 'Very well!' And saying this each of them mounted his car, and sanguine of success, they rushed in a body to slay the sons of Pandu. And knowing by his spiritual vision that they had gone out, the master Krishna-Dwaipayana of pure soul came upon them, and commanded them to desist. And sending them away, the holy one, worshipped by all the worlds, quickly appeared before the king whose intelligence served the purposes of eye-sight, and who was then seated (at his ease). And the holy one addressed the monarch thus.'"



Edited by Medha.S - 11 years ago
Cotswolds thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#63
@Medha.S - Lovely update. I agree with all your points. Dury was evil and had done outrageous things. I especially can not condone anyone insulting Drau, a hapless woman. The blame can not be shifted to Shakuni, a view popularised by BRC.
I also dont think it was Adharm when Bheema killed him with a trick. It was a tit for tat.. long overdue.
He deserved that painful death.

I dont understand when people are so quick to point all "adharma" by Pandavas during war but they are silent about evil schemes of enemy. Why to expect Pandavas win only by fair means when enemies employ machinations ?
Kuruwar was outcome of greed, ambition of Dury and his supporters. Yes.. he was a villain.
582445 thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#64

Originally posted by: Cotswolds



I dont understand when people are so quick to point all "adharma" by Pandavas during war but they are silent about evil schemes of enemy. Why to expect Pandavas win only by fair means when enemies employ machinations ?
Kuruwar was outcome of greed, ambition of Dury and his supporters. Yes.. he was a villain.


Cotty you must think that all the tricks Duryadhana did was when he was trying to get the throne by POLITICS and politics is DIRTY .. Politics followed no rules even then .. if Pandavas could play and answered them with same politics it was fine. It wasn't that they didn't try. In Vyasa Mahabharata after Yudi lost the Dice game Bhima asked Yudi angrily Why he agreed to play dice on the 1st place. Yudi answered " I wanted to win throne of Hastinapoor winning in this game but unfortunately I lost to Shakuni" ..

but look at when the war is concerned Duryadhana followed the Dharma of a Kshatriya in fight. .

Two things clearly said Duryadhana wasn't an evil but a grey one
1. Balarama who was real flawless persona in the epic was angered by Bhima's unfair attack
and went to kill Bhima. If Dury was a pure evil I don't think a great human being like Balarama [only one who was able to keep himself away from the war] would take such drastic step

2. Vyasa wrote in Duryadhana's death Devtas showered flowers on him. he beautifully said he is getting the death of a true KSHATRIYA .. "The death a true Kshatriya wants I am getting a death like this. Who is equal to me" .. Here Vyasa portrayed DURY like a true hero, a true Kshatriya .. who is embracing his death like a true KSHATRIYA will .. Vyasa didn't stop here but told devtas showered flower on him seeing Pandavas felt ashamed and left the place to let him die

You can easily make a black and white divide in a religious book but when looking it as epic .. mytho history and above all a LITERARY piece then calling any protagonist or antagonist as clear evil is demeaning the writers beautiful creation
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Posted: 11 years ago
#65
I am never a fan of Pandavas.. And I have a soft corner for Karna..
So from a neutral POV, I want to know how people would define / justify Duryodhana's behavior in tonight's episode.. 🤔
582445 thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#66
Duryadhana is an interesting character .. a curious case of wonderful personality going through gradual decay because of jealousy, anger, ego and constant fueling

We see his beautiful mind and power of becoming a rebel to social norms when for the 1st time he stood for Karna .. people try to find political motive here but I guess VYASA didn't get it .. here is what he said to Bheem when he was busy to curse Karna

" Bheem these words don't suit you. Strength is biggest wealth of a Kshatriya. its difficult to recognize source of a A valiant man and river. Fire born from Water, Bajra is created by bone of Dadhichi. ... Acharya drona born from pitcher, Lord Gautama was born from Shaft. I also know how you pandavas came into this world. Along with armor this Sun like Tiger in human being can't be a deer born"

Does it sound like a man playing mind game here? At least I don't find so

Next incident .. what still has its evidence in India

1. Malanda in Kerala : The story behind the temple

Duryadhana reached Malanda in search of pandavas. He was thirsty and asked for water from an elderly woman. The woman gave her water but the next moment realized being a Dalit she gave water to a man from higher caste. She told Duryadhana everything and was expecting death when Duryadhana's word stunned her, he said "Mother, one who give water to a thirsty does no crime. She is only a mother and mother has no caste." villagers came to meet this royal man who for the 1st time said such things to them. Duryadhana to show his gratitude accepted their wish and granted them a temple where dalit will be priest of the temple.

Villagers believe Duryadhana's soul still prevailing there and if any tortured soul or poor man worship there he/ she will get solace

3. Temple in Uttaranchal

A tribe worship him believing Duryadhana as their father figure. To the contrary of pandavas who was always cruel to unprivileged tribes [incident of Ekalavya, Khandava dahan n another that was unconvincingly explained as accident] Duryadhana was definitely kind to them . else y they will still respect him like their father

4. I have already said it in my previous comment how unlike Pandavas he got a death that a Kshatriya ever desired. Why this man get the ultimate end of a true Kshatriya and not pandabvas. If you are ready to believe in anything n everything that is written I won't ask you. but if anyone here has the mind to QUESTION and logically explain things with own mind then may be it will make you think

If one knows these much about Dury then he/she will definitely conclude that dury was a great persona but he wasn't. his weakness didn't let him be. His jealousy and hatred made him do evil stuffs what is unforgivable by many [though Gods forgave him and blessed him with heaven] .. but why we cal him an evil .. its not that pandavas were flawless .. they made many mistakes, committed crimes ..

then why Duryadhana is the only evil just because he lost the war .. just like Hitler is the only evil in history but not harry Truman even after killing innocents even more in number than Hitler ?? If anyone can give any LOGICAl answer that I can't break I will accept it but No religious explanation and no emotional gibberish ..
Edited by SayaneeH.Lecter - 11 years ago
Cotswolds thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#67

Originally posted by: SayaneeH.Lecter


Bhima asked Yudi angrily Why he agreed to play dice on the 1st place. Yudi answered " I wanted to win throne of Hastinapoor winning in this game but unfortunately I lost to Shakuni" ..

Yes. This definitely shows evil intentions of "righteous" Pandavas. No arguments. Yudhi was a gambling addict but trying undeserving win through dice reflects poorly on Pandavas, especially Yudhi.

Two things clearly said Duryadhana wasn't an evil but a grey one
1. Balarama who was real flawless persona in the epic was angered by Bhima's unfair attack
and went to kill Bhima. If Dury was a pure evil I don't think a great human being like Balarama [only one who was able to keep himself away from the war] would take such drastic step

Dury was his favorite disciple. He was upset with Bheema, his another disciple, for violating code, ethics of mace fight. When, confronted with question on dharma/adharma by Krishna, he retreated saying he would always be proud of Dury. Dury was indeed a great, fearless warrior.

2. Here Vyasa portrayed DURY like a true hero, a true Kshatriya .. who is embracing his death like a true KSHATRIYA will .. Vyasa didn't stop here but told devtas showered flower on him seeing Pandavas felt ashamed and left the place to let him die

Dury was wronged by Bheema in the fight. Bheema had no chance before Dury who was adjudged the best by Balrama. It was again stupidity of Yudhi to ask Dury to choose a weapon and choose anyone for fight. Krishna severely criticised him for that.

You can easily make a black and white divide in a religious book but when looking it as epic .. mytho history and above all a LITERARY piece then calling any protagonist or antagonist as clear evil is demeaning the writers beautiful creation

Again, I agree. Various interpretations,connotation, clever play of Sanskrit words, deep spiritual, hidden meaning make Mahabharata such a fascinating, never ending study. I was fascinated by Ajaya, a story of Mahabharata from Dury's POV as well as Yuganta which strips everyone of heroism. So you are right. All characters are gray and no black and white.



Sayanee, I am not debating good qualities of Dury and as you can see I am in agreement with you on all points. And my "Personal" grudge with him is due to VH. I feel strongly about it and my mind is biased against him due to that sole incident.

If I have to choose one villain from MB, I would choose Dury ahead of Shakuni, Dhrit, Yudhi.
Edited by Cotswolds - 11 years ago
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Posted: 11 years ago
#68

Originally posted by: Cotswolds



Sayanee, I am not debating good qualities of Dury and as you can see I am in agreement with you on all points.

But.. If I have to choose one villain from MB, I would choose Dury ahead of Shakuni, Dhrit, Yudhi.


I understand and respect your POV. Personally I have characters whom I love and hate and some with whom I share both of these feelings but I don't call anyone evil here not even Shakuni. I guess what he did was somehow justified. Anyone in his place would crave for revenge ..

About VH I am not justifying him here .. but I feel Yudi and Pandavas were more at flaw in this case. Dury wasn't the one who gambled on his wife.. in Hindu marriage A husband take an oath of protecting his wife and his dignity. I found none of five brothers trying a bit to do so. When a husband sells his wife so easily how can u expect anything from a man burning with vengeance and anger who is now considering nothing but his slave. AGAIN I am not justifying Dury just saying he is undoubtedly villain in VH episode but Pandavas commited bigger crime here. Atleast my logic say so

Ajaya is a wonderful study but that's not what made me like Dury.. for the 1st time it was BRC Mahabharata scene after karna's death .. Duryadhana's tears was so true that I felt a man who can love his friend to this extent can't be an evil but a wonderful heart deep down all cruelty . For me
Edited by SayaneeH.Lecter - 11 years ago
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Posted: 11 years ago
#69

Originally posted by: SayaneeH.Lecter



About VH I am not justifying him here .. but I feel Yudi and Pandavas were more at flaw in this case. Dury wasn't the one who gambled on his wife.. in Hindu marriage A husband take an oath of protecting his wife and his dignity. I found none of five brothers trying a bit to do so. When a husband sells his wife so easily how can u expect anything from a man burning with vengeance and anger who is now considering nothing but his slave. AGAIN I am not justifying Dury just saying he is undoubtedly villain in VH episode but Pandavas commited bigger crime here. Atleast my logic say so

Ajaya is a wonderful study but that's not what made me like Dury.. for the 1st time it was BRC Mahabharata scene after karna's death .. Duryadhana's tears was so true that I felt a man who can love his friend to this extent can't be an evil but a wonderful heart deep down all cruelty . For me



I again agree that Pandavas have to equally share the blame for VH. Nothing can justify their behaviour as well. As you said, you were swayed and influenced heavily by celluloid characterisation.
Similarly helplessness of Drau in VH from BRC is etched in my memory. I may blame it on effective acting by Rupa and Punit.. But it was difficult for me to appreciate him from that episode onwards. Again, a personal grudge you may say...
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Posted: 11 years ago
#70
How has ajaya dealt with VH?
Edited by bhas1066 - 11 years ago

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