Please try to answer - Page 2

Originally posted by: IWasHareeshFan

hi, actually even I have so many questions and this is just the first one, I have seen so many posts on various epic shows forum but could not ask any questions as those forums were locked long a go, how now I think I am at right place.

MB is Mahabharat, but what is SB and H

SB is Srimad Bhagvatham and HV/H is Harivamsa.

ohho don't say about picnic,

Yeah, I think just before Subhadra haran, Arjun actually falls asleep in the middle of their gossip sesh with the amount of talking Krishna makes him do. In the forest, Krishna's word dump was welcomed by Draupadi as well. She would've I guess picked up some spatula and actually fought Krishna right then and there if he didn't start explaining why he had been MIA like right that instant.

Really! when did this happen?

Somewhere around the shanti doot choosing in the pandava camp. Before he went to hastinapur anyway.

So I have heard that after he left the world and Arjun was going back to hastinapur

Yeah, grief makes you weird. The pandavas kind of believed Krishna was God by then, for good or for bad. So with than and all the war and post war shenanigans, in their subconscious they probably thought he was immortal or something. So, in that part Arjun has just also gotten one of the cornerstones of his belief system broken just now, and is faced with breaking the hearts of his brothers, Draupadi and KRISHNA'S SISTER! Of course he's terrified! Also could be simply that he just got old right?

haan haan please do, I am waiting would love to here everyone.

btw a devil's thought,

Haan, Swastik will never anticipate this corner of support for their shows!

Originally posted by: wayward

btw have you heard Yamuna story and how Krishna married him?

Originally posted by: IWasHareeshFan

btw have you heard Yamuna story and how Krishna married him?

Yeah that one was pretty cute! 😍

Originally posted by: IWasHareeshFan

My first question is, did Lord Krishna use Arjuna and all that friendship was for political gain or for the establishment of dharma? If yes, then what was the reason of him saying that he could not live on this Earth without Arjuna? Why did he regard Arjuna above everything and everyone? Furthermore, he expressed these sentiments not only in Arjuna's presence but even when Arjuna was absent. Why did he call only Arjuna when the Yadu clan was facing a crisis, and everything was on the verge of destruction? Were there no trustworthy people left in the Yadu clan or anywhere else whom he could rely on completely? If it was just for the political gain then why he could not make friends with Yudhishthir? Why did he not ask for help from Yudhishthir?

And people like Krishna, who did not just speak casually, who did not usually expressed his feelings so openly for everyone, I mean, even if he did express, he did not get overly emotional and use to say just anything. For him, to say that my life, my kinsmen, and everything was above Arjun is not a trivial matter. Saying that no one is dearer to him than Arjun is not a small thing either. He hasn't even said this much for his wives, so why for Arjun?

for 1 minute let's forget Nara and Narayana fact because even his 8 wives were the incarnations, even his brother was known as Sheshnag, so why only for Arjun?

Was this friendship was only for his own benefit and he just arjun for his gain?

Now why I am asking this, this is because I've been reading quite a few opinions where people are saying that Krishna just used Arjun for his own motives, he forced Arjun and all that.

Trust me, when I am writing this I am feeling so bad as I am Parth Madhav fan but still I want to write this to know different opinions and even if we share the same opinion then also to add more points to this claim, everyone's opinion is most welcome.

Please feel free to comment your views here regardless of what you think

God and Evil both work through humans on Earth. So eventually those who are capable in mind & body like the Kauravas & Pandavas will be used (for lack of a better word) by greater forces to carry out their agendas. But only the blessed ones will become instruments of God and do his good work of Dharma-sansthapan. And that I feel is some great use of human life. So if anyone says Krishna used Arjuna, that is of great credit to Arjuna, he isnt the victim here but blessed to be of any use to God. Because when God uses you for any of his works it ultimately leads to your own upliftment for he will not make you do anything bad.

Firstly when Arjuna & Krishna met what were their personal achievements so far? Krishna had killed numerous demons, Kansa, & given a bloody nose to Jarasandha. He had also safely moved his citizens to a city he had newly established & brought relative peace & happiness in his own family & that of his people. On the other hand Arjuna had completed his education, become an archer of renown, defeated King Dhrupada and was living in the forests hiding from his cousins. So at this point Arjuna seems like a pretty normal guy with some extraordinary skills at archery and not someone you would even want to use, especially for a man like Krishna. (At that point actually Bhima seems more able having killed biggies like Bakasura, Hidimb, having rescued the Ps from the lac house, having returned from the Nagaloka many times stronger and hence more "useful" but Krishna still chooses Arjuna)

Krishna has already achieved so much on his own. Yet when he meets Arjuan at Draupadi's swayamvar they bond instantly! Maybe being the same age, both being deft archers, a cousin who has been wronged....all this helped them bond? After this Krishna "uses" Bhima to eliminate Jarasandha...which I feel is the only thing which benefitted Krishna to some extent...but even here Jarasandha's death paved

the way for a successful Rajasuya Yagya for the Pandavas, so even here Krishna is not the sole beneficiary. After this every thing Krishna did he did it for the benefit of the Pandavas. He never took away their choices from them, rather gave them the correct perspective to help them choose correctly. Even

after narrating the whole Geeta, Krishna at the end tells Arjuna that he has told him everything...now it is his choice! These are not words of a man who is out to exploit Arjuna. Also while Krishna has chosen to not pick a weapon in the MBH war, no one has chosen to not kill Krishna. So he is taking a considerable risk by being Arjuna's sarathi for everyone knows that Bhimarjuna will be on every single K-warrior's target list from Day 1 of the war. A person who was in it for political gain wouldn't be out in the battlefield with the man who has a target painted on his back.

And why only Arjuna...why doesnt he speak that passionately about his wives who were Laxmi's incarnation or Balaram? Could be because we get almost all information about Krishnarjun from MBH which is firstly about the Kaurava-Pandava feud and Krishna & his personal life & relations are just mentioned in passing or when related to any point in the story. We can say Krishna used Arjuna only if we consider him as God, if we consider him as human & forget the Nara-Narayana aspect then Krishna was of greater value to Arjuna than Arjuna was to him. When Krishna speaks with so much love for Arjuna I think he is speaking as God & God's love for his Bhakta who has always done nishkaam bhakti, for Arjuna is not only his friend but also his bhakta....basically it is God saying he loves his Bhakta who has completely surrendered to him

Originally posted by: wayward

Yeah that one was pretty cute! 😍

cute? Wasn't that scary? I mean considering how and in what situation he married Yamuna and what do you think, whatever people say about Balram in the Yamuna context can be true or not?

Originally posted by: IWasHareeshFan

cute? Wasn't that scary? I mean considering how and in what situation he married Yamuna and what do you think, whatever people say about Balram in the Yamuna context can be true or not?

The marriage part was cute. That was just Kalindi approaching Arjun and Arjun plopping her down in front of Krishna

Balaram thing I feel like happened later. That timeline is a bit wonky in the two books. Also, it very much could be two different women for all we know, or it could be the same one just caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. And as for Balaram's behavior is concerned, well it tracks. Balaram had a long-standing alcohol issue, a major source of conflict between him and Krishna actually. I think they ended up banning alcohol entirely in Dwarka. I don't know if Balaram was solely responsible, but it was a very unpopular decision.

The way he insinuated that Krishna was involved in first the syamantaka incident and then in Satrajit's murder ka conspiracy, both I guess under the influence of alcohol, his behaviour with Yamuna isn't that far out of the realm of possibilities. If he's willing to call his Krishna a murderer, then what chance did poor Kalindi stand?

Also, Balaram kind of ends up moving out of Dwarka only after the Satrajit murder incident and ends up in Vrindavan finally I guess. Although, given his presence in the following Dwarka incidents, maybe he was commuting back and forth. But either way, Krishna and he ended up with a very frigid, and kind of awkward relationship by the time Balaram turns up at Kurukshetra.

The marriage part was cute. That was just Kalindi approaching Arjun and Arjun plopping her down in front of Krishna

Wait, is this true? I heard this but I thought that it is a folklore, but really is this true, where it is mentioned? Even I wanna read this, I wonder why this is not shown in any of the MB stories, this scene will be really cute if they will show this.

his behaviour with Yamuna isn't that far out of the realm of possibilities.

Oh God, this is now horrible, you know what, when I first read this story I seriously couldn't believe what I read, the image of Balram which is shown in TV is veryyyyyyyyyyy different than what is given in books.

I hope whatever is written in H Puran is not a metaphor but actually true and he really used plough to drag the river only and it does not mean something else, you know naa what I am hinting at?

See I believe in divine powers, but the problem here is that the way it is described, first his behavior, then his intoxication and then all this bathing in the river and enjoying etc plus his drinking habit and how he accused his brother, I am not sure but I think even he wanted that jewel of Satyabhama's father.

Originally posted by: The.Lannister

haan, that I failed to understand, What actually Krishna gained by all this, I mean if he just had some political gain then he could have used kauravs as they were very influential at that time, he just got one thing, blame for this entire war, what else did he get from this war? naa, I am not doing sarcasm, but I actually want to know this, was that something which he personally could gain from that war? like any political gain or something like that?

Originally posted by: IWasHareeshFan

Wait, is this true? I heard this but I thought that it is a folklore, but really is this true, where it is mentioned? Even I wanna read this, I wonder why this is not shown in any of the MB stories, this scene will be really cute if they will show this.

The marriage ka SB version and Kalindi's version as she tells Draupadi you can check here...it's brief, but gives a pretty image (it used to be more detailed but it seems they've recently revamped the site and shortened everything):

https://vedabase.net/sb/10/58/index.htm

https://vedabase.net/sb/10/83/index.htm

Oh God, this is now horrible, you know what, when I first read this story I seriously couldn't believe

See there's nothing in the books that says that a divine being can't make mistakes, take Indra only for eg, outside of the Vedas, he's a pretty questionable dude. The TV shows usually play it safe because Balaram is a major deity, and offending the more conservative part of the fanbase is definitely bad for business. The plough thing is most definitely a metaphor for advanced agriculture techniques that he might've pioneered, but bringing up Yamuna-as-a-woman definitely raises some red flags.

Balram's dependence on alcohol to me at least seems at least partially a sort of a ptsd reaction. See, how the brothers have been fighting enemies constantly ever since they leave Vrindavan. Krishna, as we see, adapts much more quickly to the change of pace from their dangerous but still happier existence in Vrindavana, while Balaram clearly struggles. He wants nothing to do with this new-world-establishment-of-dharma with Krishna...he is fighting because he has to and he's good at it, that's it. All he wants at this point is to go back to the simpler times.

We see a similar reaction (although from a different trigger) in Vasudev, who also spends most of his time partying it up with his junior wives, leaving the upbringing of Subhadra and the rest of his younger kids (a direct result of aforementioned partying) to Rohini and the boys to handle. Devaki mostly shut down, with the story of Krishna showing her her previous 6 sons being probably a metaphor for stress-induced hallucinations. They were all kinda running rugged, and on pure adrenaline for most of those decades.

Personally, I don't think Balaram was very greedy or something you know, he was just very bad at handling his liquor and very suggestible on top of that. During the syamantaka epi, when he hears Satrajit's accusation, his first reaction is to go fight it out with Krishna and make him return the gem, but the moment Krishna produces a satisfactory alibi, Balaram does a complete 180 and is almost ready to murder Satrajit! The same can be seen in his dealings with Bheem and Duryodhan, the way they basically play tug of war with Balaram, confusing him incessantly in the process! See how he was about to marry Subhadra to Duryodhan, but then wanted to murder him after the dice hall but was again back to supporting him by Kurukshetra time.

I feel like Krishna must've supported the Dwarka liquor ban hoping to force Balarama to quit, but I don't think he ever thought that Balarama would choose his intoxication over his brother, and actually move out of the home they'd built together.

hello everyone, see what I found, if we go by this then we don't even need any interpretation as everything is already mentioned here, on the one hand it is used like a metaphor but see on the other hand how it is written. I don't know at this point that this is a metaphor or not.

I don't know why the link is not working but this is the link

Also I got this from one of the previous forum, I have not directly accessed this from anywhere.

http://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_046.htmlhttp://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/vishnuparva/hv_2_046.html

Holding the plough in his hand, strong like a snake and sparkling with the mace in the (other) the intoxicated (balarAma), the best among the powerful, sparkled with his face swaying (due to intoxication), like moon swaying in the nights of cold season.

rAma told yamunA: O great river! I wish to take bath. O the one who goes to the sea! Come to me in your form.

Rejecting the words spoken by the intoxicated sa~NkarShaNa (balarAma), stupefied by her womanly nature, she did not go to that place.

Then the powerful (bala)rAma, stirred by intoxication, became angry. He took up the plough in his hand, keeping its point down, ready for dragging.

Then the garland of lotus flowers fell on earth. The flower buds were released and the water became red with the pollen of flowers.

Using the plough with its point down, (bala)rAma dragged the great river yamunA as though the river was a woman swerving from her duty.

The frightened river along with its perturbed water and many ponds deviated along the route made by the plough.

That river flowing forcefully in a curved manner as indicated by the plough was distressed like a woman, due to the fear of sa~NkarShaNa (balarAma).

With her banks similar to thighs, bimbAh (the fruit of the Momordica Monadelpha) as lips, splashing water and broken foam as her girdle, the river was distressed, as the water breached its banks.