Akbar - MUZ Kids :: Part-6 : JA is NOT Fiction

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Mihrimah Ahmed

@ShadeOfWhite

Stunner

+ 4

Posted: 11 years ago

#161

Originally posted by: history_geek

Coming to your Point about MUZ conceiving at 42, and giving birth to Aram Bano Begum.

Without writing much, i would only mention one simple thing-->> When the case of Daulat Shah (as per Jahangirnama), is acceptable in giving birth to Aram Banu Begum. Then, why not about MUZ.?. I mean, if MUZ was aging, then similar signs must be visible in Daulat Shad as well.?. Isn't it.?. Or does "anyone" wants to say that Daulat Shad remained in her 20's and "ONLY" MUZ turned out to be in her 40's , and HENCE such a doubt cropped up NOW, on the basis of Age .?.😉 If MUZ was aging , then same applies to Daulat Shad also.?. So, what's the problem.

u killed it🤣⭐️

Edited by tamy267 - 11 years ago

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roshanehkhan

@roshanehkhan

Explorer

Posted: 11 years ago

#162

Originally posted by: tamy267

u killed it🤣⭐️

whom 🤣

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AbHer_neha

@AbHer_neha

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#163

Originally posted by: tamy267

u killed it🤣⭐️

It used to be very natural in those times for women to conceive in their 40s because earlier the life style was such that a normal person could remain healthy for long.In old times, women used to have more stamina. But today our life style is such that we depend so much on the advanced technology...as a result we are getting less healthy. In our times, women have complications in their pregnancy even in a very young age. If Mumtaj Mahal died during her pregnancy in the age of 30s her case may be special. Its not necessary that all begums must have had complications in that or later age. My dadi & Nani both gave birth to kids in their 40s.😉 My father was born after the marriage of my bade papa & the youngest maternal uncle of mine was born after the marriage of my mother.😆

Abhay & comp., I m still reading the thread...will comment on later.😳

Edited by AbHer_neha - 11 years ago

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Ananya

@ann2012

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#164

Originally posted by: roshanehkhan

thats nice to hear don't worry there are many experts in Mughal history here 😆 well as i said i don't know much about medical i ask these questions because i think 30+ having pregnancy almost every year doesn't it effect the health of mother or child? premature baby ? every year pregnancy mother baby survival chances in16th century health care system? & 40+ is count old for pregnancy if i'm not wrong 😕

Sorry to interrupt this discussion 😕 But i just have to add a little point about the efficiency and health of people in that era 😉

Women in 16th century imperial household went on to live well into their 70s-80s. Mariam Makani, Jiji Anga, MUZ, Ruqaiya and even Salima (to name a few) were grand old ladies when death came knocking upon their door. Even Bega Begum and Gulbadan begum were in their 70s when they died. Also, most of these ladies were active on political front at that age. That indicates they were healthy. The kings died early due to excess stress or their addictions taking toll on the bodies.

Mughal kings who abstained from alcohol etc went on to live longer lives (eg: Shah Jahan and Aurangzeb), just like the ladies.

So to think that Mughals and India was hopeless on medical front, is uncalled for. If people did survive to live ripe lives, then the medical system must be good enough. Good enough to save a premature baby and save a mother from pregnancy complications.

Mumtaz Mahal gave Shah Jahan 14 children in a span of 19 years It means she birthed a child every 1.3 years. Childbirth once is a great ordeal (that is what i have heard and read) and going through it almost every year (even past the age of 35) must be daunting.

Compared to that MUZ had 9 pregnancies (according to the thread) in a span of 22 years. MUZ's last two pregnancies had a comfortable gap of seemingly 9 years (Firoze Begum born in 1575 and Aram Banu in 1584). So, here you have the solution that how MUZ survived at 42 but Mumtaz didn't at 38.

Edited by ann2012 - 11 years ago

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RadhikaS0

@RadhikaS0

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#165

hi Abhay,

Wow, another round of interesting discussion since i last visited. I can kick myself for taking a break now and missing all the action! Never mind. I can see you and our friends are enjoying lively debate! :) carry on!

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Cleo12345

@Cleo12345

Navigator

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#166

Originally posted by: ann2012

Sorry to interrupt this discussion 😕 But i just have to add a little point about the efficiency and health of people in that era 😉

Women in 16th century imperial household went on to live well into their 70s-80s. Mariam Makani, Jiji Anga, MUZ, Ruqaiya and even Salima (to name a few) were grand old ladies when death came knocking upon their door. Even Bega Begum and Gulbadan begum were in their 70s when they died. Also, most of these ladies were active on political front at that age. That indicates they were healthy. The kings died early due to excess stress or their addictions taking toll on the bodies.

Mughal kings who abstained from alcohol etc went on to live longer lives (eg: Shah Jahan and Aurangzeb), just like the ladies.

So to think that Mughals and India was hopeless on medical front, is uncalled for. If people did survive to live ripe lives, then the medical system must be good enough. Good enough to save a premature baby and save a mother from pregnancy complications.

Mumtaz Mahal gave Shah Jahan 14 children in a span of 19 years It means she was birthed a child every 1.3 years. Childbirth once is a great ordeal (that is what i have heard and read) and going through it almost every year (even past the age of 35) must be daunting.

Compared to that MUZ had 9 pregnancies in a span of 22 years. MUZ's last two pregnancies had a comfortable gap of 9 years (Firoze Begum born in 1575 and Aram Banu in 1584). So, here you have the solution that how MUZ survived at 42 but Mumtaz didn't at 38.
[/QUOTE

Ann, Thank you for your input and the example you have quoted.
I am person of science and it takes a lot to convince me to write something to support or oppose a claim...for the same reason, I refrain from commenting on something i feel i don't know enough about eg Mughal history ...however, when I say that I am sure...it means I am sure... And I am not getting paid for this( I do charge a lot for my medicine related comments btw 😉)...the only reason I am here is because of my fascination for history.
Ms/mr Roshankhan still hasn't answered my question...what made you conclude that MUZ could not hv given birth to the the kids mentioned here? Doubts...everyone has that...are you confident that the claim that MUZ had 10 kids is false?...I repeat, my response is restricted to the medical aspect and I don't waste time responding to ' I think' or ' maybe' comments...so please claim beyond doubt that a woman above 30 cannot conceive and give birth to the number of kids mentioned here and I will certainly respond to that . I am not claiming that MUZ had all those kids with Akbar( I havnt done the research on this) ...let the TM respond to that...all i am saying is that it is medically possible...if anyone else has questions please ask me directly( PM if you want) and I will certainly answer it as long as it is an intellegent question...if I don't have an answer, I'll make sure that I find someone who can answer that ( medicine only...no history please)...Thanks.

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ILTHBEB

@ILTHBEB

Trailblazer

+ 4

Posted: 11 years ago

#167

Lol, whats an interesting discussion..can women become pregnant over 40 years age or not? So how did MUZ become pregnant at 42 years old?
Well here are many history n medical science experts. so they can give these answers perfectly i won't give any knowledge but as a student of Statistics, bio statistics n informatics i m sharing a practical example here. 3 years ago we had been sent to a rural area n hospitals in that area collecting data to do census on infant mortality. After collecting few date on road we met with 2 ladies. 1 lady's age was 21 n another lady's age was 45. We got to know their relationship was daughter n mother. The surprising issue was both were pregnant. After asking few questions we got to know the elder aged lady's pregnancy was happened accidently after a big gap in time span of her last child took born. the gap was 10 years.

Edited by nabiii - 11 years ago

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ILTHBEB

@ILTHBEB

Trailblazer

+ 4

Posted: 11 years ago

#168

Originally posted by: roshanehkhan

thats nice to hear don't worry there are many experts in Mughal history here😆 well as i said i don't know much about medical i ask these questions because i think 30+ having pregnancy almost every year doesn't it effect the health of mother or child? premature baby ? every year pregnancy mother baby survival chances in16th century health care system? & 40+ is count old for pregnancy if i'm not wrong 😕

i have a statistical date where i read in previous era when there was not invented birth protection system or was lack of the system of protection , many ladies started to b pregnant frm early age till almost 35-40 years hence there have been recorded many couples had beget almost 10-17 children but the high rate of infant mortality most of children would haven't survived. Moreover, we can't deny in past era ladies had high energy n stamina than the ladies of this era perhaps the reasons behind it were hygenic environment, pure food, less pressure in society n family than at present.

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RadhikaS0

@RadhikaS0

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#169

@Everyone,

GM!

The background to this thread and the comments herein have followed a trend.

First, there was a doubt about the existence of HK/MUZ.

then there was a doubt whether Akbar married her and if he did, was it only a political alliance or a love story.

Then there were doubts whether they had any 'relations' for the first few years of marriage because Salim came on the scene 7 years down the line. (At least, now everyone seems to agree on forum that MUZ was the mother of Salim/Jahangir.)

Then there was a doubr as to how many kids Akbar and Jodha had together, as a testimony to their love. The thought behind this seemed to be that Akbar may have soon 'lost interest' in HK if he 'stopped having kids' with her. (Though how anyone can correlate love, marital relations and no. Of kids is still beyond me!)

After this thread, the doubt seems to be now restricted to some kids like Murad, Shahzadi Khannum, Khannum Sultan, Aram Begum. This indicates we agree mostly that the other kids at least are HK's.

Cleo and others have corroborated that it is medically possible for MUZ to have had Murad soon after Salim and the daughter @42.

This is great progress for MUZ on our forum. Day by day, we are believing more and more in her story and the doubts are narrowing down.

Pretty soon, I'm sure all these doubts will vanish too and we will all be privy to the true face of HK and swear by her epic love with Akbar.

Abhay, Kamal, Lizzie, Ann, Jaipur friend, and co:
Take a bow! Your sincere efforts are paying off!

The reason I summarized the above journey of HK on the forum was to encourage you, my dear friends, that you need not lose heart. Your research isn't going down the drain. More and more are getting convinced more and more by your findings. The questions are lesser now and more specific. This is your reward and I hope you guys cherish it. :)

When we seek truth honestly and selflessly, the whole universe conspires to help us attain that truth. The next time you feel disheartened in your research, pls remember these words. Hopefully you will be able to move ahead with renewed zest. :)

Thanks so much from all of us for your tireless efforts!

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roshanehkhan

@roshanehkhan

Explorer

Posted: 11 years ago

#170

Originally posted by: Cleo12345

first a correction in name its not Roshankhan 😆 its roshaneh khan😳 i already written my doubts about the pregnacy issues i don't know what you want me to ask more 😕 do you want me to pm you? when i asked you about the medical things i not at all mentioned history
& i'm not surprise that you saying i'm not claiming MUZ had all these kids same here