I THINK ENOUGH IS ENOUGH NOW - Page 22

Originally posted by: MaddyO

Yes Cleo did get her reply and I am sure she will reply if she wants to.

You do not know me, so do not presume to write WHAT I MEANT by above comment.

I just meant that after certain posts say 2-3 rather 2 replies mostly the original point is lost. Sometimes some members only want to have the last word as if to imply so they won the argument. So I meant the discussion becomes futile after certain point.

You do not KNOW ME - Rima does, Happygolucky Neena does and so do Fatma201 and Cleo and Abhay.

Rima is THE MOST GENEROUS forum member the first one to praise anybody. Neena and Fatma are also my friends. BTW Fatma I have NOT forgotten about your book name, I was so busy I did not get a chance to visit library, will do asap and send you PM about books names and author name. I noticed you changed your id😃

I AM THE LAST PERSON to NOT LIKE CONTRARY VIEWS - If Neena remembers we had a discussion about this on my Sunday thread where she wrote even if I do not agree with your views I always want to read them. Exactly, I LOVE reading contrary views, what fun it will be to read similar views?

I am not on any mission and I certainly DO NOT CARE TO CHANGE YOUR OPINION! Why would I care?!

I usually make a thread every Sunday where I include posts and thread I have liked to read. I do this especially for newbies cos sometimes due to lack of time their posts do not get read.

If you read my this weekend thread - I LOVED these - 6
http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3957947

You might notice I HAVE INCLUDED ALL KINDS OF VIEWS.

Your comment offended me because you presumed why I wrote it, so this somewhat blunt reply.

I do not want to offend anybody and hurt anybody's feelings. If I have done yours I am first to say sorry here.

We are all friends on the forum. People have different views and that is good so we can have healthy discussion otherwise the forum will be very boring if everyone things the same. The important thing is not to take things personally and have MU. I think we have enough MU on JA to add our own on the forum. 😊

So everyone cheer up and lets all respect each others views.

Ps: regarding the books, check at your convenience and you can send me PM

Originally posted by: AJSharma79

My dear, that is one LONG post...but I enjoyed reading every bit. Before I write my replies to your post/questions, i just wanted to make sure that I don't forget to say that I find your post above very brilliant, eventhough we may not agree on one or two things.

But hey, if everyone thinks the same way, life will be too boring, and Ekta will have no job!

wrong post😕

HI Abhay,

Good to see your reply. But Lord was it long, with lots of different shades, shapes and sizes. I was almost crossed eye reading them. So to spare me from confusing myself, and the subsequently confounding myself I am not quoting any of the earlier post. But I will say something on your latest reply.

To an extend if I try to reply you point to point, I will find myself being a parrot or a record player with a bad sctracth on it. So I will not. Instead I will write what is my opinion on the whole after reading your post.

Firstly, I understand few things very clearly, one the few being:

You are making your own observations on the actions of the characters that are being discussed. The whole point of the forum is to share different views, so I think we are quite clear on that my dear. Why would I think anything otherwise than you presenting an alternative POV?

Secondly, I do get it that your posts are in general. I replied to them for the fun of it, not because I took it personally. Again, we are clear on that.

Third, you wish to give a fresh take on WHY Jodha did it, I only want to give my take on Why not Jodha do it the other way...basically we both are doing the same thing. Which is again, giving our view ...but very different view indeed.

Now to the matter of discussion:

1. All things to me boil down to the Vachan. She gave it in duress. I can accept that. But she maintaining it? No. I cannot agree on that. Why?

a. If she is seen as having to keep the promise to keep Sujamal save, I have an alternative. Ask Sujamal to leave Agra. If he can take a vachan from her, she sure as hell is hot can take one from him. Then reveal the truth to Jalal. Yes, Jalal will flip and take the drama to the new level. But at the very least, she saves two lives.

If Jalal has not learnt his lesson from Ben track then one might as well drown him in that pond. He ought to listen to her when she says that his life is in danger, because she is not that stupid to fear that unknown spirit is going to suck the living daylight off him. If she is saying something, then there must be something worth listening.

b. If she is keeping the secret for the sake of the promise, I think she is being a bit dumb. Yes, you will say only us viewers know that Jalal is aware of the truth. But any woman will be considered as have lost control of her senses if she CANNOT see what is so clear like a ribbon on a pigs head...Jalal's reaction and kind of questions to her. He is COMPLETELY turned from I am your friend' to won't you trust me to tell me truth?'. Emotional turmoil or not is no excuse to be this blind. Not in a queen. Definitely not.

Part of being royalty is to function while under stress. I will not cut any slack for Jodha nor Jalal as being too stressed that they behaved out of place. That is the burden of royalties. They are trained and molded from young for this purpose. One mistake is fine. To repeat? Why go on a nightly escapade each night? I have issues on this because?

a. She endangers herself too much. Its very bullish action. She can fall into any different kind of harms, especially being caught red handed by the guards while meeting with Sujamal. That will turn everything into one very ugly picture.

b. She endangers Sujamal by passively encouraging him to stay. She KNOWS that Jalal wants his head. Yet, she is not forcing him to leave? Sujamal is not really having Horace Slughorn dishing out luck potions to him right?

c. She expects Jalal (although he has at this point decided to be dumb Jalal yet again) to NOT notice that she is NEVER there when he comes a-calling? How long is Moti supposed to give vague answers to him?

And why is it that she has this persistent need to be the one to reveal the conspiracy etc? She is like having this gene in her to be the person who goes the butler did it'. Is she a MI16 wannabe? I can understand the desperate need to save her husband. But there are smart ways to do it...like talk to Salima, or I just had a bizzare idea...Atgha. You never know. These people hold Jalal very dear. They probably will keep her secret willingly...and at the same time work out who the culprit is. By the way the promise was not to tell Jalal. The others were not included.

I find it very illogical for a person who has the shoot at sight order to be prancing around in Agra, disguise or no disguise. Sujamal is just not displaying very much planning/intelligence here. And Jodha is an accomplice in this. What use is a dead Sujamal? Yes, it is all very heroic...despite the lurking death, to strive to find the person who endagers his brother in law. To not care for his life but to uphold his promise to his sister. But I believe you need to live today to fight another day.

Yes, Jodha explained that Sujamal cannot endanger Jalal's life as he has taken a vow to protect her husband. She is right to say it, and Jalal is right to brush it off. Sujamal did wage war against Jalal. Jalal had no reason to believe him. He took over his territory by war, if Jalal had not wanted to have his head, I would send Jalal for a lobotomy.

However, just like the case of sharifuddin, Jalal was insisting that he cannot forgive him at all. In the end he did. You say that it was because BB was pregnant and situation called for that. I am sorry Abhay, but I find that for an emperor to release the enemy of the state, on the basis of his pregnant wife highly laughable. A king cannot be cruel and unkind. But he cannot be like an invertebrate either. An enemy of the state is an enemy regardless of him being fertile in infertile. If he was released on the basis that he revealed Ben, my take would have been different. But he was not. He was released because his wife was pregnant? What rubbish? Then why have law?

However much I am incensed with that issue. That's not the point of discussion here. So I cease and desist on that point.

The point is, as ridiculous as the point of release was, Jodha managed to persuade Jalal. I think she can move mountains with her tear brimmed eyes, and emotion filled lectures especially to the besotted Jalal.

I would love to see Jodha going back to Amer, although I am reading news that she runs away to the forest? The mystery continues for me... Anyway, both Jalal and Jodha need to get their perspective and priorities straight. And I think a good cooling off period is good for them...definitely good for my poor nerves.

I have written my view on this whole ongoing drama. My stand remains until I see any changes in the characters or plots. I can write more, but I will be repeat myself, and going in jelebi fashion which is so tiresome. I just hope something good will come on Monday...but maybe that is like hoping for Morgana to wear colours and be cheerful...

Cheers

Originally posted by: happygolucky099

i think we should njoy show and forum😊

Originally posted by: happygolucky099

BTW ur name is rima or diya???
i m confused😳

Originally posted by: fatma201

We are all friends on the forum. People have different views and that is good so we can have healthy discussion otherwise the forum will be very boring if everyone things the same. The important thing is not to take things personally and have MU. I think we have enough MU on JA to add our own on the forum. 😊

So everyone cheer up and lets all respect each others views.

Ps: regarding the books, check at your convenience and you can send me PM

Originally posted by: AJSharma79

HI Abhay,

Good to see your reply. But Lord was it long, with lots of different shades, shapes and sizes. I was almost crossed eye reading them. So to spare me from confusing myself, and the subsequently confounding myself I am not quoting any of the earlier post. But I will say something on your latest reply.

To an extend if I try to reply you point to point, I will find myself being a parrot or a record player with a bad sctracth on it. So I will not. Instead I will write what is my opinion on the whole after reading your post.

Firstly, I understand few things very clearly, one the few being:

You are making your own observations on the actions of the characters that are being discussed. The whole point of the forum is to share different views, so I think we are quite clear on that my dear. Why would I think anything otherwise than you presenting an alternative POV?

Secondly, I do get it that your posts are in general. I replied to them for the fun of it, not because I took it personally. Again, we are clear on that.

Third, you wish to give a fresh take on WHY Jodha did it, I only want to give my take on Why not Jodha do it the other way...basically we both are doing the same thing. Which is again, giving our view ...but very different view indeed.

Now to the matter of discussion:

1. All things to me boil down to the Vachan. She gave it in duress. I can accept that. But she maintaining it? No. I cannot agree on that. Why?

a. If she is seen as having to keep the promise to keep Sujamal save, I have an alternative. Ask Sujamal to leave Agra. If he can take a vachan from her, she sure as hell is hot can take one from him. Then reveal the truth to Jalal. Yes, Jalal will flip and take the drama to the new level. But at the very least, she saves two lives.

If Jalal has not learnt his lesson from Ben track then one might as well drown him in that pond. He ought to listen to her when she says that his life is in danger, because she is not that stupid to fear that unknown spirit is going to suck the living daylight off him. If she is saying something, then there must be something worth listening.

b. If she is keeping the secret for the sake of the promise, I think she is being a bit dumb. Yes, you will say only us viewers know that Jalal is aware of the truth. But any woman will be considered as have lost control of her senses if she CANNOT see what is so clear like a ribbon on a pigs head...Jalal's reaction and kind of questions to her. He is COMPLETELY turned from I am your friend' to won't you trust me to tell me truth?'. Emotional turmoil or not is no excuse to be this blind. Not in a queen. Definitely not.

Part of being royalty is to function while under stress. I will not cut any slack for Jodha nor Jalal as being too stressed that they behaved out of place. That is the burden of royalties. They are trained and molded from young for this purpose. One mistake is fine. To repeat? Why go on a nightly escapade each night? I have issues on this because?

a. She endangers herself too much. Its very bullish action. She can fall into any different kind of harms, especially being caught red handed by the guards while meeting with Sujamal. That will turn everything into one very ugly picture.

b. She endangers Sujamal by passively encouraging him to stay. She KNOWS that Jalal wants his head. Yet, she is not forcing him to leave? Sujamal is not really having Horace Slughorn dishing out luck potions to him right?

c. She expects Jalal (although he has at this point decided to be dumb Jalal yet again) to NOT notice that she is NEVER there when he comes a-calling? How long is Moti supposed to give vague answers to him?

And why is it that she has this persistent need to be the one to reveal the conspiracy etc? She is like having this gene in her to be the person who goes the butler did it'. Is she a MI16 wannabe? I can understand the desperate need to save her husband. But there are smart ways to do it...like talk to Salima, or I just had a bizzare idea...Atgha. You never know. These people hold Jalal very dear. They probably will keep her secret willingly...and at the same time work out who the culprit is. By the way the promise was not to tell Jalal. The others were not included.

I find it very illogical for a person who has the shoot at sight order to be prancing around in Agra, disguise or no disguise. Sujamal is just not displaying very much planning/intelligence here. And Jodha is an accomplice in this. What use is a dead Sujamal? Yes, it is all very heroic...despite the lurking death, to strive to find the person who endagers his brother in law. To not care for his life but to uphold his promise to his sister. But I believe you need to live today to fight another day.

Yes, Jodha explained that Sujamal cannot endanger Jalal's life as he has taken a vow to protect her husband. She is right to say it, and Jalal is right to brush it off. Sujamal did wage war against Jalal. Jalal had no reason to believe him. He took over his territory by war, if Jalal had not wanted to have his head, I would send Jalal for a lobotomy.

However, just like the case of sharifuddin, Jalal was insisting that he cannot forgive him at all. In the end he did. You say that it was because BB was pregnant and situation called for that. I am sorry Abhay, but I find that for an emperor to release the enemy of the state, on the basis of his pregnant wife highly laughable. A king cannot be cruel and unkind. But he cannot be like an invertebrate either. An enemy of the state is an enemy regardless of him being fertile in infertile. If he was released on the basis that he revealed Ben, my take would have been different. But he was not. He was released because his wife was pregnant? What rubbish? Then why have law?

However much I am incensed with that issue. That's not the point of discussion here. So I cease and desist on that point.

The point is, as ridiculous as the point of release was, Jodha managed to persuade Jalal. I think she can move mountains with her tear brimmed eyes, and emotion filled lectures especially to the besotted Jalal.

I would love to see Jodha going back to Amer, although I am reading news that she runs away to the forest? The mystery continues for me... Anyway, both Jalal and Jodha need to get their perspective and priorities straight. And I think a good cooling off period is good for them...definitely good for my poor nerves.

I have written my view on this whole ongoing drama. My stand remains until I see any changes in the characters or plots. I can write more, but I will be repeat myself, and going in jelebi fashion which is so tiresome. I just hope something good will come on Monday...but maybe that is like hoping for Morgana to wear colours and be cheerful...

Cheers

Hi AJ

Just now happened to see the reply.

BTW, I introduced different fonts, shapes, sizes, etc. in my reply to make it easier by separating the earlier comments which we had in our discussion.
Another point of mentioning the earlier reply(in multi-font cum color format) was that now the discussion was becoming repetitive, as the available points/options had already been discussed. And, the discussion was heading NOwhere now, as we are back to square one.😊
As far as replying point to point is considered i just re-iterated my earlier points, as your views were already covered in the old reply.

Coming to the present comment. I will NOT answer, atleast this point by point as this goes TOTALLY off the mark, that why Jodha did NOT do this.?😕.
I started to find the reasons why she DID this. Hence, i stick to the original topic.
Though reading different views are always refreshing.😊

And yes, i also enjoyed this discussion and this was for fun only, as you mentioned.


Anyways, i am answering some points from your reply.
No, this time not point by point but some general observations only.
Before i start i must say, again our discussion would boil down to that "Vachan".



Regarding the point that Jodha can take Vachan from Sujamal, to leave Agra and THEN reveal to Jalal.
If she takes Vachan from Sujamal, to leave Agra. It's fine. So, Sujamal leaves. But after that ALSO, how can she reveal this to Jalal.?. As she is still bound by the first "Vachan" which Sujamal had taken from her.



Regarding the point that why Jodha does NOT see, Why Jalal is behaving in such a manner.?.
For this question, Jalal HIMSELF has given a DIFFERENT reason that -> I am upset Jodha Begum, You lied to me regarding the reason of your leaving Harem.?. Why is he asking indirectly. Afterall, he gives the impression that he is upset about the fact that after winning a harem election, she is leaving now. He, himself has given a different reason.


Regarding why Jodha goes out and endangers herself. This point was mentioned in the first reply only, that Jodha will face the music for this, and NO ONE HOLDS Jalal wrong here. So, i won't elaborate on this. This is already discussed earlier.
And, she is NOT going out to enjoy fresh air, but only in a hope that may be Sujamal got some lead. (Though, this night outings idea as we agreed above is totally out of Blue. NO point mentioning this again.😕). Neither is Sujamal having some luck potions as far as i know (this was very humorous.😆), still he tries to somehow get some lead(though he himself knows how he is going to do that.😕 Also as per spoilers he is going to enter the palace.?..)

Moti has already played her role here.😉 She is no longer expected to give vague answers to Jalal. As Jodha is no longer going out NOW. This i mentioned in previous reply also. So, i stop here.

Also, the point mentioned that One needs to Live to fight another day is very fine. But before fighting one can not lay down the arms as well. And, Sujamal is doing the same.

Now again i have one point which we both agreed to in your latest reply. That:
Yes, Jodha explained Jalal that Sujamal cannot do that act. She was correct. For Jalal rejecting Jodha is ALSO correct. So, again we boil down to the same point. Whom do we hold responsible for this MU regarding Sujamal. As on this topic, neither you nor me find Jalal or Jodha wrong. Both are very much correct.😊.


Regarding the rubbish of releasing Sharif from Jail on the basis of his wife being pregnant, is something which i am NOT saying from my POV. But, this was the POV of Jalal and Jodha that there could be no good present then her husband Sharif for Bakshi Bano, on that occasion. This was their POV.

BTW, as you mentioned that why laws exist then, and why(how can) Jalal release any enemy of state on such grounds.?. This question(i feel) pertains to history. So, i would like to mention that EVEN IN REAL history, Jalal had FORGIVEN Sharifuddin multiple times(i guess 4 times), and reason was that he was his sister's husband. The point which i mean to say is that rules very much exist BUT it is the Emperor himself who applies it according to his WISH.
I feel this clears the air about releasing Sharif on such personal grounds.😊

BTW, Not only Sharif but many other defaulters of the state were released/forgiven by Real Jalal on such grounds. They will also come on the show later. We can see them there.

Rest points repeated many times here by both of us. So, i am also of the same view, should hope for cheerful episodes now. I hope now we get good stuff now.

Signing off by a quote here - " We can have many disappointments, but have hope alive, for it NEVER betrays us".😊