The scientist emperor - Page 2

History as you know can be put in any way you like.

Let me state a few facts-
Fact 1- Guru Arjan Dev openly supported Khusrau in the war of succession
Fact 2- Jahangir executed 200 supporters of Khusrau, executed the sons of Abdur Rahim for the same.
Fact3 - It is most likely that Jahangir executed Guru Arjan Dev for the same reason

According to Prof M Hasan in the History of Islam, Guru Arjan Dev was tried for sedation for his support for Khusrau, he was found guilty and he was handed over to Chandu Lal who had him killed. In the same book it says that to allay the fears of the ulema, Jahangir undertook to reverse the religious policy of Akbar and uphold the cause of Islam.

You don't even need to read a book to know that the equality of all religions that Akbar believed in was supplanted with a new policy, the supremacy of Islam. Just donating to a few temples does not make you a liberal.

Jahangir killed Abul Fazl not because of the reasons mentioned by you, but because he wanted the support of the ulema. The ulema was scared by the religious policies of Akbar and they blamed Abul Fazl for misleading the Emperor.

As for assassinating Akbar through poison, no clear cut evidence is there. But Jahangir is a very good suspect, a perpetual drunk and opium eater, whose own father wanted to disinherit him.

But yes, comparing Jahangir to Hilter is an exaggeration.

Originally posted by: vijisridhar

Wow... So Salim was a biologist/zoologist. Daddy Akbar was an Engineer... kya baath hai...awesome details and very interesting.

Thanks for the info.

Viji

And Mother " All in All Azhagu Rani"
Thanks for sharing the facts.

Originally posted by: vijisridhar

Wow... So Salim was a biologist/zoologist. Daddy Akbar was an Engineer... kya baath hai...awesome details and very interesting.

Thanks for the info.

Viji

Akbar was a polymath: an architect, artisan, artist, armorer, blacksmith, carpenter, construction worker, emperor, engineer, general, inventor, animal trainer (reputedly keeping thousands of hunting cheetahs during his reign and training many himself), lacemaker, technologist and theologian.

Originally posted by: Donjas

History as you know can be put in any way you like.

Let me state a few facts-

Fact 1- Guru Arjan Dev openly supported Khusrau in the war of succession

Yes but Jehangir never told the Dewan Chand Rai to kill or torture him. He was told to collect 2 lacs fine which he did not have. So Chand Diwan had personal grudge on him and hence this pertex was used to kill him. If Jehangir killed him intentionally he would not bother to apologise and hand over the Dewan for justice to Arjan Singh's son Hargobind Singh. Yes he is emperor so whatever his employees do will be placed on him(similar to the Durga temple loot by mughal soldiers by Akbar's sena).

Fact 2- Jahangir executed 200 supporters of Khusrau, executed the sons of Abdur Rahim for the same.

That was the 3rd rebellion against Khusrau and his supporters. Jehangir punishment was very harsh and excessive. But the rebels were no saints they had raped and looted along all the villages that they treaded to reach lahore forts. But yes by human standards the impalment punishment was too much. And with Khusrau if he was just kept in confinment he could have rebelled again another civil war another assasination attempt you never know what would have happened. Abul Rahim's sons and Nur Jahan's younger brother were killed for supporting Khusrau in rebellion and the assasination attempts. Yes the punishment was very harsh. But if he had not done that there would be repeated rebellions and civil wars(like after aurangzeb death mughal empire would have ended because of constant civil wars after akbar only). Khusrau was misled and wrongly advised by his relatives and friends.

Fact3 - It is most likely that Jahangir executed Guru Arjan Dev for the same reason

According to Prof M Hasan in the History of Islam, Guru Arjan Dev was tried for sedation for his support for Khusrau, he was found guilty and he was handed over to Chandu Lal who had him killed. In the same book it says that to allay the fears of the ulema, Jahangir undertook to reverse the religious policy of Akbar and uphold the cause of Islam.

Jehangir was a pretender and not an orthodox muslim or conformist. He wanted support from ulema to become emperor so promised them islamic rule which he never implemented later. Indeed he put some ulema in jail some killed for questioning him on why kingdom not run according to ulema. He promise but never implemented anything and did whatever he wanted. Its like politicians saying i will do this do that and when they come in power they say law will follow its course.

You don't even need to read a book to know that the equality of all religions that Akbar believed in was supplanted with a new policy, the supremacy of Islam. Just donating to a few temples does not make you a liberal.

Jehangir built an temple inside agra fort for his wives and mothers. This supermacy of islam started by khurram when he was in rebellion. If jehangir was orthodox khurram would never have projected himself as upholder of islam against jehangir during his rebellion. The britrish, french ambassdor considered him as an atheist that says it all about his religion. Thomas Roe who once was allowed inside his bedroom found christian cross, mother mary and jesus picture, krishna idol and a khuran all three in his room and mentioned it in his book.

Jahangir killed Abul Fazl not because of the reasons mentioned by you, but because he wanted the support of the ulema. The ulema was scared by the religious policies of Akbar and they blamed Abul Fazl for misleading the Emperor.

As for assassinating Akbar through poison, no clear cut evidence is there. But Jahangir is a very good suspect, a perpetual drunk and opium eater, whose own father wanted to disinherit him.

Like that i read in some book Akbar would always kill his enemies by poison and wanted to kill someone and prepared a potion but by mistake drank that. So all these rumors cannot be believed because if jehangir want to kill akbar he can easily do so, he has access day and night to his father and all servants also can be bribed to kill him. Anyways who shall oppose him once Akbar is dead he need not go into rebellion and wait for 36 years. He could have done it 10-15 years back only and become king. His rebellion was not only to become a king but personal issues which reached to a dead point between his father and him.

But yes, comparing Jahangir to Hilter is an exaggeration.

Like you say history is complex no one can say who did what, when etc. Everyone had good and bad points. Like that Pratap never gave Shakti singh half the kngdom he had promised and told him to leave palace with his kids and go away. Akbar killed Kamran's sons to secure kingdom for his children etc. Just because Akabr was liberal in religion we cannot consider him as very good and jehangir more religious as bad because we must see the entire life all the atrocitites etc as a whole committed.

Do you know Ashoka the great after kalinga war killed his 99 brothers to become king after converting to buddism. Akbar killed his cousin brother and their kids to secure empire after he became liberal. So it all depends on circumstances. Just because a person start respecting all religion equally does not mean he became very good and another follows the religion his parents taught him does not make him bad. These kings used these liberal images when it suited them and used different rules to run kingdom. If they were so liberal why not abolish death penalty and forive all enemies and treat all humans equal and distribute land equally to all people. So liberalism was used because they realized that they cannot run a kingdom of many religions citizens there will be utter chaos but not when it came to threat to their throne etc.

Thanks didnt Know this. 😃
Love him as the king
of course he is a evergreen crush ...

Originally posted by: vijisridhar

Wow... So Salim was a biologist/zoologist. Daddy Akbar was an Engineer... kya baath hai...awesome details and very interesting.

Thanks for the info.

Viji

daddy akbar engineer???? how cum?????😆😆😆

Originally posted by: Donjas

Akbar was a polymath: an architect, artisan, artist, armorer, blacksmith, carpenter, construction worker, emperor, engineer, general, inventor, animal trainer (reputedly keeping thousands of hunting cheetahs during his reign and training many himself), lacemaker, technologist and theologian.

omg!!!!!!!!!! really!!!!!!! where can i get more info. in detail about him...plzz doo tell..am damn curious...😲

Very Nice Discussion on this thread.
I would like to share my views here, which i reached upon after reading a lot...!!!!!!.😊

I agree, "to an extent", regarding interpreting history in any fashion. But, i do not feel that this argument of doubting "EVERYTHING in history" is correct.

This clause of putting ALL the EVENTS in the garb of doubts is something, i feel is not right.
I am saying this because sometimes we "ASSUME" that a particular event is NOT recorded or is under dispute, but we assume it without verifying it..😕.!.

But, if we try to ascertain the issue by digging the OLD books ourselves, we may get an entirely different picture. Also, if we try to cross check it from DIFFERENT accounts of THOSE times and then reach a conclusion then also it clears a lot of issues..!.. 😊

I am giving one example to support my fact, relating to the present topic of discussion, only.


I am talking about Jahangir and assasination of Guru Arjan Dev.
Though, modern sources/digital😕🥱 sources propound that Jahangir was responsible for assassination of Guru Arjan Dev. But, if we look into the sources of those contemporary times, then that is NOT the case.

They DO NOT hold Jahangir responsible for death of Guru Arjan Dev. I have tried to DIG on this issue from many OLD accounts and NO ONE says that Jahangir did this.

1.
This is a HIGHLY RARE account written in FARSI language.
Name - Dabistan-e-Mazahib Written in mid 17th century.

Right now it's RARE translated copy is available in the Digital accounts of Ministry Of Information and Technology, Govt. Of India. 😕 I have NOT read this account but got this issue verified from a friend of mine. The account gives almost similar description of Guru's death as given by the TM. It was Jahangir's Finance Minister Chandu Sahab who did this wrong act. He was angry with Guru since the Guru had rejected an alliance with his family.😕 Rest story has already been written here.

This book has 12 chapters. Probably in second chapter it gives this incident while dealing with Sikhs.

2.
Similar thing is given in the Sikh Archives - The Sikh Religion, Volume - 2, Page-70. I have personally read this. Here also Chandu Sahab is blamed.

3.
From the accounts of a traveller. I can not recall the name but mentioned the same story as above.

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So, finally after verifying from::
3 different accounts written in different areas in different languages by different people. All speak same thing. They do NOT hold Jahangir responsible. EVEN Sikh Archives give him a clean chit..!!..

**********************************************************************************************************

This was ALL i had to share.
And, i just wanted to tell that by searching MORE one can reach a fairly correct idea of many events (if not all).

History is NOT so badly twisted.

We can conclude it provided we DIG HARD.

The only thing is Read ourselves, if possible from MULTIPLE OLD accounts, rather than new ones.


P.S. - This is JUST my opinion, as i try to conclude ANYTHING ONLY after verifying it from a "variety" of contemporary chronicles.😊

great post dear...i liked it very much...:)
tfs

but i hve one query...why didnt d tiger...didnt ate the deer????wats d logic behind diz??