B R Chopra portrayal of Karna with reference to KMG - Page 22

Originally posted by: Cotswolds

Sabhayata, I too believe shalya was a great warrior but we are debating what he said about him..his overhype like a PR person. He tends to do that.

Also please note that when krishna recounted karna sins, karna hung his head in shame.

Bold how does that matter

I am not saying karna was sinless definately he made mistakes which krishna ji recounted at end

like i said i believe in the sins that krishna ji recounted but then i also believe in the praises

i dont believe in things that suit me and not in those that don't suit me

Originally posted by: Sabhayata

i am confused what are you disagreeing with when did i say anything about some one being a vegetarian sorry confused 😕

regarding daanveer for me he is because of his these two acts which are enough for me .But if someone doesn't think so that is fine as well to each his own

[Quote=Cotswolds]I am trying to be consistent and following CE and it only narrates his sin in dyuta. So I am not talking of bheema poisoning at all. But please note that As per CE, drau never rejected karna by calling him sutputra.




I believe in Karna's praise because he did put up a fight to support the praise, Shalya on the other hand did not. Had Karna died against Arjuna without putting up a fight - I wouldn't have cared for that statement.

We can also discount Krishna's sin count since he only did that to infuriate Arjuna, Krishna may have added a few more sins just like he over-praised Karna.

Edited - Double post

Originally posted by: Cotswolds

Vegetarian example was a simile to draw parallels to Karna.

KK daan and kunti promise occurred in that period when he vowed not to refuse anyone anything as per KMG. Looks like his danveer tag is based solely on those events.

Danveer tag is a person's nature.. His inherent generosity to help to anyone without any expectations.. This is not meant to be an act simply out of duty.

ok now i understood

like i said that is your opinion and i respect it

but i don't think like this

for me he daanveer because of the two kinds of things he gave in daan he gave away his life and victory in daan which is why he daanveer for me.

Its not like he gave way normal things like wealth and all to indra he gave away a part of his body and victory and to kunti the life of 4 of his enemies cum brother's that too without asking that is why he is daanveer

i dont think these acts can be compared to someone eating vegetables or not

like i said to each their own you dont think he is daanveer if he took the vow its fine but for me he is

so we can agree to disagree

Originally posted by: TheWatcher

I believe in Karna's praise because he did put up a fight to support the praise, Shalya on the other hand did not. Had Karna died against Arjuna without putting up a fight - I wouldn't have cared for that statement.

We can also discount Krishna's sin count since he only did that to infuriate Arjuna, Krishna may have added a few more sins just like he over-praised Karna.

Originally posted by: Sabhayata

like i said that is your opinion and i respect it

but i don't think like this

for me he daanveer because of the two kinds of things he gave in daan he gave away his life and victory in daan which is why he daanveer for me.

Its not like he gave way normal things like wealth and all to indra he gave away a part of his body and victory and to kunti the life of 4 of his enemies cum brother's that too without asking that is why he is daanveer

i dont think these acts can be compared to someone eating vegetables or not

like i said to each their own you dont think he is daanveer if he took the vow its fine but for me he is

so we can agree to disagree

Originally posted by: Cotswolds

But TheWatcher.. Hearing all those sins.. Karna hung his head in shame. He did not try to refute nor was he upset due to krishna's blatant lie. This goes on to prove krishna words were true.

So you also agree here that Krishna does have a tendency to over praise or heap unworthy praise.. That is precisely the point of other members..

My apologies - I forgot to add 'IF' in my last sentence.

Karna had no time to refute, Arjuna got angry and started firing shafts at him, I don't expect him to go on a debate rather than baffle Arjuna's shafts.

Just because someone did not refute someone's claims, doesn't make it true.

this will probably be my last post in this thread since i think there is not much left to discuss anymore things are just going round and round in circles

All i wanted to say is my true and at least as per me my unbiased opinion on karna

i dont view karna as a traditional hero for me he is grey shaded character who has negative sides to himself as well as positive side

he begins as an anti hero who is a capable warrior and wants to prove that to the world in the process gets involved with unrighteous people .And then starts his journey towards being one of the antagonists from just an anti hero.He is involved in some despicable acts and seems to only have a negative side to his character which gets highly enhanced in dyut sabha

but then one gets to see a different side to this character in his conversation with surya dev and then indra dev .A person who is always ready to fulfill his vow no matter what even if it means to give away his life .At this point he doesn't seem like just a villain but perhaps some one who is capable of being better .Then the truth of his identity gets revealed to him the very people he hated turn out to be his brother's and he is offered to lead those enemies now brothers and marry their wife and rule over them.And now this guy who has committed despicable acts against his enemies cum brothers ,whom he always wanted to kill and hurt all of sudden refuses this offer.He thinks that his enemies cum brother's are righteous and deserve to win then he further he even promises to spare their life(4 of them)

at this point its clear he is just not an antagonist or a villain he is so much more than that a character who can be loved and hated ,criticized and appreciated

which makes him the most interesting character for me and one of my fav

and i think the same thing applies to many other characters as well.they can appreciated for something and criticized for some other

for example like yudhistir (since urmila pointed out to him)yes i do criticize him for dyut sabha but despite that he is one if my favs',Because certain other things he does overpowers what he did in dyut sabha for me

some of them are

1)the way he takes care of dhrit and gandhari after the war

2)He is the only one who realizes the destruction this war has caused and laments it

3)He was ambitious but he knew when to keep his ambition on this side and think of bigger things something that dury couldn't which is why he sent the peace proposal

4)Out of all panadavs he is the one who comes up with strategies on his own hence the most intelligent

personally i don't hate any one in mahabharat for me all character's can be appreciated for some acts and criticized for other acts

here ends my last post as for other members enjoyed discussing with you guys hope you guys enjoy further discussions😊

Originally posted by: TheWatcher

My apologies - I forgot to add 'IF' in my last sentence.

Karna had no time to refute, Arjuna got angry and started firing shafts at him, I don't expect him to go on a debate rather than baffle Arjuna's shafts.

Just because someone did not refute someone's claims, doesn't make it true.