Was Yudhishthir a real Dharmaraaj? Whats your opinion? - Page 2

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DharmaPriyaa thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#11

Originally posted by: SRUJAconscience


These posts are very precious for me.I have to save them!😃

Will try to comment here soon.


You are welcome dear friend 🤗 glad you liked our posts 😊 all is God's Glory 😃
you have a Divine power to view everything Spiritually! 😊 eagerly looking for your comment 😃
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Posted: 11 years ago
#12

This is my opinion.😊I've already posted it here http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3874335&PID=101287737&#p101287737 but I felt this is the best place to discuss about Yuddhishtir.😊

Dear Friends,

We are not exploring something for the first time and we don't prefer any half-baked result.Predictions that aren't firmly attached to the ground turn to be useless.They cannot survive long if at all they live they don't fit in every situation.
And now how can certain lines judge a character when the Great Epic is fully-fledged with text worth 18-Chapters!?
If it is Yuddhishtir,we very well know that he was recognized as Dharma right from the beginning of the Epic.What did Aksashvani say when Yuddhishtir was born.Please do recollect those lines from Adi-Parva!
And as soon as the child was born, an incorporeal voice (from the skies) said, 'This child shall be the best of men, the foremost of those that are virtuous. Endued with great prowess and truthful in speech, he shall certainly be the ruler of the earth. And this first child of Pandu shall be known by the name of Yudhishthira. Possessed of prowess and honesty of disposition, he shall be a famous king, known throughout the three worlds.'

The same was proven in the Great Epic.

Manusmriti written by the ancient sage Manu, says 10 essential components comprise Dharma : Patience (dhriti), forgiveness (kshama), piety or self control (dama), honesty (asteya), sanctity (shauch), control of senses (indraiya-nigrah), reason (dhi), knowledge or learning (vidya), truthfulness (satya) and absence of anger (krodha). Manu further writes, "Non-violence, truth, non-coveting, purity of body and mind, control of senses are the essence of dharma".

Where does this base of a character(comprising all the traits) that predicts a person's nature go missing while trying to understand the epic!?

People find Yuddhishtir's actions troublesome at various points.But with the aid of above mentioned traits how can the following be viewed!?

If it is staking his wealth...Who can say all this is ours!?

If it is staking his Kingdom...we know that a king's subjects will bear the same recognition (as People- Praja)for his wife,brothers and children.So does pawning them make any difference!?

Be it staked his Pandava Brothers...he was aware that his siblings were brothers of Kauravas also.

Yuddhishtir staked his wife...I'll ask wasn't she related to Kauravas!?How can you say he staked her like a commodity!?

He boasted about his vast wealth...But who can brag of things that are destined to be lost!?

If you talk about 'vice' there is a question for you...who took it to the level of vice?Who played like a relative and who played like a true gambler forcing to put this and that as a stake...who continued to 'live' in that role even when the game ended?
If at all Yuddhishtir won Hastinapur and Kaurav women what would he have done considering them his daughters!?

Even if you want to know how Yuddhishtir forgave repeated offences?...you have to understand that essence of his character.

For "I sought to cast the dice desiring to snatch from Dhritarashtra's son his kingdom with the sovereignty. It was therefore that, that cunning gambler--Suvala's son--played against me on behalf of Suyodhana."...didn't he refuse Bhima's suggestion to end the Vanvaas in 13 days!?Why did he take up the entire period of 13 years?Why he ordered Bhima and Arjun to save Dhritarashtra's son & Co. from Gandharvas when the later were in trouble!?He must have left them to their fate and take over his kingdom after their end!Even if he didn't will to end them he could have ordered Bhim and Arjun to capture them.But why didn't he do that!?Does Yuddhishtir need any discourse on Kshatriya qualities?How do you approach someone speaking in pain,holding you responsible for their sufferings?Can you pacify them saying they are wrong in blaming you?Perhaps it was a way to calm them by agreeing with what all they said and felt inside.And later prove them as baseless allegations.

Yuddhisthir asked Bhima & Arjun to save the Kauravas who were captives of the Gandharvas...Those Gandharvas captured Kaurava women.It was said that "This contact with other people's wives and this hostile encounter with human beings are acts that are both censurable in the king of the Gandharvas and not proper for him."
Protecting the women esp. of one's own clan is the duty of every man.How can this be a contradicting to Dharma!?

Lusting for someone...let me tell you a person with virtues can never sink into low standards.Especially if he's deeply involved in Truth.How could he make 13 years of ascetic life successful with a strong drive for physical plessures!?

I'll admit that all this logic and reasoning is still lacking and doesn't cover even 0.1 percent of the reality,reality which even I believe it to be of great calibre.

Definitions may differ, people's thoughts may be narrow while interpreting, but the truth remains unchanged.

Only perception of high standard is worth taking up because these characters and their actions are not just for analysis and forgetting.We can never understand a character like Yuddhishtir being ourself!Perhaps partially if, we are a Bhim or a Arjun.But never being embodiments of Kali(Demon)!

To Understand Yuddhishtir's actions

Keeping the conflicts aside,to predict anything about Dharma, a person's path should be that of Dharma!Only a person who really has got into that state of virtues can give the correct sense of a righteous character.

Faulting someone unable to understand his deeds!? This is not desirable.

According to the Bhagavat Purana, righteous living or life on a dharmic path has four aspects: austerity (tap), purity (shauch), compassion (daya) and truthfulness (satya); and adharmic or unrighteous life has three vices: pride (ahankar), contact (sangh), and intoxication (madya). The essence of dharma lies in possessing a certain ability, power and spiritual strength. The strength of being dharmic also lies in the unique combination of spiritual brilliance and physical prowess.

Anyone who is complete with the above qualities can understand what is dharma and bring out the exact meaning of Yuddhishtir's actions.

To disprove...

Even if someone wants to refute Yuddhishtir's actions they can to do it by giving the right way to function provided they are on the same path...dharmic path comprising the above aspects.

Edited by SRUJAconscience - 11 years ago
chirpy_life19 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#13

Thanks a lot for making this topic.I'll read all the posts and reply.I express my sincere regrets for misjudging Yuddhishtir with my half-knowledge!!Though I haven't perceived his greatness completely I sense his ideality.Perhaps by reading all these great posts.
varaali thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#14
Finally got the time to reply...

Was Yudhishthira really a Dharma Raja?

To answer this we have to look at certain incidents and derive our own conclusions.


The first clue that we get to understand Yudhishthira's Dharma -palana is his Q & A session with the Yaksha beside the poisoned lake.


At the very end, when the Yaksha asks why Yudhi wants only Nakula to be revived, Yudhishthira answers firmly

"Dharma sheela sada raja iti maam manyava vidu" I want to be known as a king who always followed Dharma


So how do we know whether Yudhishthira actually followed Dharma or not ? We get the answer from Manu Smriti which says "Dharmo rakshati rakshitaha" He who protects Dharma is himself protected by Dharma.

At the end of everything, it was Yudhishthira who emerged victorious- not Durodhana, Karna et all.The Dharma which Yudhishthira followed all his life ultimately protected him. Dharmo rakshati rakshitaha.


Just as Dharma protects those who protect it, the reverse is also true. Dharmo eva hato hanti. Dhamra kills those who kill it. This was true in case of Duryodhana.


In fact, interestingly at the very end of the war, when Duryodhana was lying mortally wounded with his thighs smashed, Duryodhana confesses

" Janami Dharmam na che me pravruttihi

Janami Adhamama na cha me nivruttihi

I know Dharma, but cannot practice it. I know adharma, I cannot stop practicing it."

In his updaesha to Yudhishthira, Bhishma says:

"Niyato yatra Dharmo Vai, Tamshankha samachara" Where Dharma is clear, practice it without hesitation.

Yudhishthira never hesitated, because to him, at every point, his dharma was clear to him.

...To be continued. I will add more details later, citing examples from the Y- Y samvada.

Urmilla- Can you open the Y-Y samavada thread?



Edited by varaali - 11 years ago
varaali thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#15
Shivang...
aise "like" button press karke chale jane se nahi chalega. 😆

Please add your valuable thoughts too.
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Posted: 11 years ago
#16
Awesome posts everyone! I confess that I never bothered to understand any other character except Bheeshma (Bheeshma ke siva koi nahi mera 😆). Hence my petite knowledge derived various conclusions, under the influence of opinions shared by others, which were negative due to the dice hall happening in particular. The posts here have helped me increase my knowledge and understand Yudhisthira a bit. 😊
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Posted: 11 years ago
#17

Cool-n-Fresh:

You are welcome dear 😊 it's really our pleasure that you have been influenced by our posts 😊 please put your views too if possible 😊


Varaali didi:

Really very beautiful post on Yaksha-Yudhishthir sambad 😊 Please do continue posting from that part with your great analysis 😃 I think this thread is the most suitable to discuss it 😊 also can you please discuss the conversations of Yudhishthir with cursed Nahush in Van parva? I feel that is too a worthy part to discuss, especially on the criteria of being a true Brahmin 😊.

Here is a thread link for you 😊 Shivang bhaiya posted his views about Pandavas including Yudhishthir in this thread long before. You will get an idea about his POV from here 😊

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/indian-mythology/1549100/favorite-pandav-from-mahabharat-and-why

DharmaPriyaa thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#18

[Recently I have collected an excellent article on Yudhishthir written by Dr. Nrisinghaprasad Bhadury, the famous Bengali researcher of Mahabharat & Krishna related topics. That article is too long to translate here so am trying to summarize my feelings & realizations after reading that.]

To understand how & why Yudhishthir was a Dharmaraaj, first we have to understand what definition of Dharma for him was. In short, it was universal welfare & impartiality.

Just think, the persons of epic Mahabharat who are marked as great warriors of Dwapar & fought valiantly in wars, none of them got the word war' or yuddha' as a prefix in their names! But the peace-loving man who could not fight well with weapons due to own extreme Satta Guna, who can never be treated as a great warrior, whose teacher scolded him on the first day of Examination for failing to fix target, was blessed with that prefix in his name at the very moment of his birth; he was named Yudhishthir, the person who remains calm even during war'! So which war is this?

Definitely it was the war of mind. Yudhishthir was equal-visioned throughout his whole life. He always wanted & tried to make everyone pleased including his enemies, but unfortunately none was pleased with this nature of him, not even his brothers & wife. This was his actual battle field where he had to fight always with himself only. He could see everything & that quality made him feel after Kurukshetra war that he had lost everything. The victory became more painful than defeat, as the feelings of every painful people around him grabbed his heart.

On the day of Dronacharya's bird's eye-piercing test his nature was cleared to all. The incident can be taken as symbolic. When Drona expected that Yudhishthir would be successful to fix his target on bird's eye, the student simply replied that he could see everything & everybody. Drona took it as his external failure but internally his failed student was completely fixed in his own target of Dharma, was steady in his own principle. And that principle was universal welfare which is always based on a broader point of view. Also judging on a matter from many different perspectives was his inborn nature. So how could he see the bird's eye only? Moreover, it was also evident then that he had not a fixed target on Hastinapur's throne. With this symbol, almost all deeds of Yudhishthir can be explained. When Duryodhan & Co. was caught by Gandharva army & kaurava ministers requested Yudhishthir to do something, Bheem took it as a revenge taken by their friend Gandharvas (I think, Arjun, Nakul, Sahadev too thought the same which was expressed by Bheem in words) & became very happy. But he was Yudhishthir only who could see the whole matter from various other perspectives like he saw everything during Drona's test. He thought that it is Dharma to save the people who are seeking for help, saving the sharanaagata is right at that moment. He also thought that it was matter of honor for women of their family who did not commit any crime to hurt Pandavas. Last but not the least, he might have thought that saving kauravas from enemies will also be a revenge, which will show kauravas what sin they have committed by insulting their own kulvadhu, & now their enemies come forward to save their kulvadhus from danger! This is like a sweet revenge taken by Yudhishthir where even the shameless Duryodhan felt ashamed for a while. This power of judgment from all points of view made him Dharmaraaj, the righteous king.

Similarly, when Jayadrath abducted Draupadi, all were ready with a fixed target on the criminal's death-punishment, but only the failed student of Drona's class could see his sister Dushshalaa & aunt Gandhari behind Jayadrath's life. If his universal vision did not work then, who saved Jayadrath's life that day? Did he not follow that day only these words of God, Adweshta sarvabhutanang maitrang karun eba cha/ Nirmamo nirahankara samadukkhasukha kshami'?

Another place can be noted to understand this sama-buddhi' or equal feeling to all. In Udyoga parva, when messenger Sanjay was returning to Hastinapur, Yudhishthir not only sent his message with him but also sent a loving & caring well-wish to each & every man of Hastinapur. None was absent from that wish. King Dhritarashtra, Duryodhan & his brothers, Karna etc enemies, all the servants & guards of the palace, all the queens & wives of kauravas, all the unmarried daughters of their clan, last but not least all the common people including poor, old, handicapped & even the prostitutes of Hastinapur was blessed with his wish & prayer. In each case his words were, May they get whatever they want, may their hearts be full with pleasure.' This place can easily remind us the words of Lord,

"Suhrinmitraa udaasin madhyastha dweshya bandhushu

Saadhuswapi cha paapeshu sama buddhi bishishyate."

So, if this sama-buddhi' is the basic nature of Yudhishthir's Dharma, then it is the part of Sanatan Dharma itself. Also, note that it is quality of a yogi as said by Lord.

Yudhishthir had no greed on any royal throne. Even after getting Indraprastha, when all was suggesting him to perform Rajasuya, he disagreed after listening from Krishna that how adharmi Jarasandha was in those days. At once Yudhishthir thought that if greed of power can make a person so cruel then why should a king perform Rajasuya? He did not allow again doing so until Lord Himself told him to do. And Lord knows everything; He knew that Rajasuya is needed to increase Duryodhan's jealousy which will make a clear way of his fall. So Lord requested Yudhishthir to perform Rajasuya (also, to punish Jarashandha) & the later surrendered himself to His order. Again, we know that in 13 years exile Yudhishthir only repented for his wrong deed in dice game but never for missing the royal pleasure. Draupadi & Bheem tried again & again to make him sad for sacrificing the wealth but all went in vain. The king, who can remain a tyagi in spite of seating on royal throne & don't feel worse in exile, can be taken as a nice example of Yogaarura person as described in Geeta:

"Gyaan-vigyaana triptaatma kutashtho bijitendriya

Yukta ityuchyate yogi sama loshta ashma kaanchana."

Also, from the above incident we can see that, Yudhishthir surrendered himself to Lord completely ("Pandavaanang bhabaan Naatho bhabantanchashritaa bayam"), long before the war where Arjun was asked to do so by Lord Himself. Also in Udyoga parva, this surrendership is very clear. He could not listen to: "Sarva Dharman parityajya maamekam sharanang vraja", but he did exactly the same.

Yudhishthir was not selected by Lord for teaching Geeta. But the Yogaarura person described in Geeta was already within him. Also:

"Dukkheshu anudbignamanaa sukheshu bigataspriha

Beetaraag bhaya krodha sthitadhi muni uchyate."

So the criteria of Sthitadhi person also match with Yudhishthir.

Now, Lord says:

"Aaruruksho mune yogang karma kaaranam uchyate.

Yogaarurasya tasyaiba shama kaaranam uchyate."

Here is the answer that why did He choose Arjun for Geeta upadesh but not Yudhishthir. Arjun was Aarurukshu', wanted to attain the highest peak but not on the peak. So he had to perform Nishkaam Karma to reach the peak. On the other hand, Yudhishthir was already on the peak, he was Yogaarura, so he had no more need of Geeta upadesh. Karma for Arjun & Shama for Yudhishthir. [Of course, Arjun was much more balanced among the 5 brothers & a good student too, for which Lord said that I am Arjun among Pandavas', but that is a different topic so am not discussing it here.]

In spite of being against of a blood-shedding war, Yudhishthir finally agreed to fight in the Dharma yuddha, only keeping in mind that there is a greater cause (Dharmasangshthaapan) & before the war he again surrendered all upcoming karma at Krishna's Feet. Thus his war became a nishkaam karma, & even after winning the whole kingdom he was ruling it like a perfect sannyasi, which shows us an example of anaasakti' or absence of attachment.

Let me explain another fact. In Karna parva, we know that Yudhishthir scolded Arjun & Arjun was going to kill him for keeping own promise. Then Lord stopped Arjun by saying that, "If a lie can save a life, then it will be treated as the great Dharma", see, basically Krishna applied the same rule on Yudhishthir during Drona vadh. That day Yudhishthir showed that he too knew about this great Dharma uttered by Krishna, but Arjun did not. So again today, Krishna teaches this lesson to Arjun only. Also He knew that the half-lie had hurt Yudhishthir severely, merciful Lord was consoling His devotee by supporting him that way. With this single leela, Krishna simultaneously performed two jobs, teaching another lesson to Arjun who firstly disagreed to it, & telling Yudhishthir indirectly that he had not committed any sin by uttering a lie.

So we can see that, the Dharma of Dharmaraaj is always derived from the Sanatan Dharma said by God. Without Krishna he was nothing. Vyas Dev said that:

"Yudhishthira Dharmamayo mahadruma

Skandhoharjuna Bheemsenasya shakha

Maadrisutou pushpaphale samriddhe

Mulang Krishna Brahme cha brahmanashcha."

So Krishna is his root. If He did not supply nutrition then how could this tree of Dharma survive? The Lord always nourished him, protected him, & kept his organs (Bheem & Arjun) under own guidance, so that the tree can stand safe and sound! Let me finish with Krishna's words to Yudhishthir: "You have achieved everything with your truthfulness & simplicity...you want nothing except truth & Dharma, you are a real Dharmaraaj."

Edited by Urmila11 - 11 years ago
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Posted: 11 years ago
#19

Originally posted by: -Shruti

Awesome posts everyone! I confess that I never bothered to understand any other character except Bheeshma (Bheeshma ke siva koi nahi mera 😆). Hence my petite knowledge derived various conclusions, under the influence of opinions shared by others, which were negative due to the dice hall happening in particular. The posts here have helped me increase my knowledge and understand Yudhisthira a bit. 😊


Welcome dear sister to our MM 🤗 yes I know you love Bheeshma Dev very much 😊 & as you know that Bheeshma loved & supported Yudhishthir from his heart 😊 so you must know & think about him positively too, right? 😃 anyway thanks dear for reading & appreciating our posts 😊
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Posted: 11 years ago
#20

Many people believe that Yuddhishtir made mistakes and he's DharmaRaj for name sake.They even raise that all the Pandavas including Kunti committed sins.So what makes them so special?

If they want to think this way they can!But they have to understand that,Pandavas and Kunti are special,very very special!Not for being emodiments of Devatas or so and so...but they are special for being Great Devotees.Their Bhakti made Krishna to remain always with them.Krishna cannot be tied with any relation or dealing.The only way to gain his mercy is through unfailing Devotion and they could modify themselves perfectly towards his service.What else is required!?This was sufficient for Krishna to show them the right path.😊








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