Radha - Page 2

Vrish

@Vr15h

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Posted: 14 years ago

#11

Originally posted by: _Sanjana23_
I don't know how accurate this is but when I was watching Bramha Vishnu Mahesh, they showed a story with Narad and Shri Vishnu bhagwan. I can't remember exactly but what I can remember there was a curse of separation?
Maybe that is something else. Can someone clarify that?

Sanjana

That curse was the one about Narad wanting to marry a certain princess, who was actually a maya creation, and Vishnu marrying her instead. Following this, Narad cursed Vishnu, and the effect of this was Rama's 1 year separation from Sita as a result of Ravan's abduction of her.

They showed this episode in the AS Ramayan. I'd have to find out which one, but it was in the Aranyakand period, if I remember right.

Edited by _Vrish_ - 14 years ago

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Vrish

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Posted: 14 years ago

#12

Thanks for moving my posts to this thread, Lola. Looks like Brahma, er, Priya/Shruti granted you the powers 😆

I read the above accounts, which are interesting, needless to say. However, in all accounts of Krishna, Radha is never mentioned as his wife: if anything, they (Krishna & Radha) are held as an example of how some great lovers are never meant to be together. Krishna had his 16,108 wives: Radha wasn't one of them.

In fact, I've read/heard that Radha was already a married woman when Krishna seranaded her. Any idea about who her husband was, and what else is known about him? After Krishna returned to Mathura and left Gokul/Vrindavan for good, anybody know what happened to her? Was she 're-united' (in a manner of speaking) w/ her hubby, assuming that she had one?

I recall that once in the 80s, one major family in the city I lived in did a lavish 'marriage' ceremony of Radha & Krishna, which attracted a lot of media attention & controversy. Don't remember the details, but that was when I first read that Radha was already married.

Edited by _Vrish_ - 14 years ago

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Semanti Chakraborty

@DharmaPriyaa

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Posted: 14 years ago

#13

@ Vrish,
Radha was wife of Rayaan (that is the name found in Brambha Vaivarta Puran, but I also know many sources that tell the name as 'Ayaan'). Radha became his wife due to the curse of Shridama in Golok. Shridama told her, " you have to take birth on earth, & you will be known as a woman who has extramarital afire," , so Radha had to fulfill this curse marrying Rayaan.
I don't know whether you will accept any other source or not, but can't resist myself from giving you another interesting information. In most of the Bengali literature, specially in 'Shri Krishna Keertan" & in the Vaishnav Padabali literature, it is commonly found that Radha was a married lady when she met Krishna, those sources don't accept the fact that Krishna married Radha earlier, but they always accept that Radha was the wife of Ayaan (the name is slightly different here, as I said before). & now, there is no Bengali literature who does not believe this fact! Actually, I'm a Bengali girl & read the ancient Bengali literature & Padabali's from my childhood, & also believed that Radha had a husband named Ayaan. Honestly speaking, this concept was so firm in my heart that at first I became very shocked when found Radha as an unmarried girl in Ramananda Sagar's Shree Krishna! I like to say one thing, if this fact is not true, then how can the ancient Bengali poets write this again & again? They were well-equipped with the knowledge of Sanskrit, it has been proved by the Historians. Then we can conclude that they read Brambha Vaivarta Puran & took this fact from there. In those sources, we find another thing. That man, Ayaan, was a great devotee of Lord Vishnu in his previous birth, & he wanted Maa Lakshmi as his wife when Vishnu came to give him a boon! Vishnu fulfilled the wish of his devotee, & thus Radha became his wife on earth! & this is also found that Ayaan was a devotee of Devi Durga & when he saw his wife with Krishna suddenly, the Radha prayed to her Lord to save her & Krishna took the form of Devi Durga. Ayaan saw that Radha is worshipping Durga!

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Janaki

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Posted: 14 years ago

#14

The two versions I ever read mentioned Radha as an unmarried woman when she met Krishna. Radha was older than Krishna, yes, but these sources mentioned her as being only one to two years older. They say that Radha married Ayaan after Krishna left Golok for Mathura, because Radha was still a young girl then and not at an age to marry. After all, Krishna and Radha's relationship took place when they were both young, because it was Krishna's adolescent phase.

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Vrish

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Posted: 14 years ago

#15

Originally posted by: Urmila11
@ Vrish,
Radha was wife of Rayaan (that is the name found in Brambha Vaivarta Puran, but I also know many sources that tell the name as 'Ayaan'). Radha became his wife due to the curse of Shridama in Golok. Shridama told her, " you have to take birth on earth, & you will be known as a woman who has extramarital afire," , so Radha had to fulfill this curse marrying Rayaan.
I don't know whether you will accept any other source or not, but can't resist myself from giving you another interesting information. In most of the Bengali literature, specially in 'Shri Krishna Keertan" & in the Vaishnav Padabali literature, it is commonly found that Radha was a married lady when she met Krishna, those sources don't accept the fact that Krishna married Radha earlier, but they always accept that Radha was the wife of Ayaan (the name is slightly different here, as I said before). & now, there is no Bengali literature who does not believe this fact! Actually, I'm a Bengali girl & read the ancient Bengali literature & Padabali's from my childhood, & also believed that Radha had a husband named Ayaan. Honestly speaking, this concept was so firm in my heart that at first I became very shocked when found Radha as an unmarried girl in Ramananda Sagar's Shree Krishna! I like to say one thing, if this fact is not true, then how can the ancient Bengali poets write this again & again? They were well-equipped with the knowledge of Sanskrit, it has been proved by the Historians. Then we can conclude that they read Brambha Vaivarta Puran & took this fact from there. In those sources, we find another thing. That man, Ayaan, was a great devotee of Lord Vishnu in his previous birth, & he wanted Maa Lakshmi as his wife when Vishnu came to give him a boon! Vishnu fulfilled the wish of his devotee, & thus Radha became his wife on earth! & this is also found that Ayaan was a devotee of Devi Durga & when he saw his wife with Krishna suddenly, the Radha prayed to her Lord to save her & Krishna took the form of Devi Durga. Ayaan saw that Radha is worshipping Durga!

Urmila

Thanks for this account - yeah, it does sound more credible to me. I find it somewhat hard to believe the other account - that Radha married Raayan/Ayaan after Krishna's departure, and given how readily Krishna married all the 8 wives that he had (I'm not counting Narakasura's captives for the moment), it seems that had Radha been unmarried, Krishna would have gone all the way and married her, rather than leave that unfulfilled. But if she was already married, that would explain his seranading her from a respectable distance.

On your surprise about why the original Krishna serial didn't reflect what you read in Bong texts, reason is that these translations happened long after the original events, and the authors typically did have/ make use of poetic license. To use a Ramayan analogy, there is nothing in Valmiki about Rama worshipping Durga before his war w/ Ravan, or the 108 lotuses, or his war w/ Ahiravan & Mahiravan, or Luv/Kush stopping his Ashwamedha horse, but it's all there in Krittivas Ojha's Ramayan. So in addition to translating, obviously he added a lot. (Incidentally, have you read his version of the Ramayan? Unfortunately, I'm not as fluent in reading Bengali as much as speaking it, and even if I was, it's written in a poetic template in 15th century Bengali that's tough to follow.) Similarly, other authors of stories about the Vedic period often took liberties w/ the stories e.g. Durvasha's curse to Shakuntala that Dushyant would forget her was a Kalidas invention.

The above controversy that I mentioned regarding the Krishna-Radha marriage happened in the 80s or 90s in Kolkata, and I recall that it did stir some controversy, not least b'cos of the lavish way in which it was done. During that time, I recall reading someone mention that Radha was already married, so no way was it possible for her to marry Krishna. In fact, if anything, their story is sometimes held out as a model of how 2 people can be great lovers but it's not in their fate to be married.

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Semanti Chakraborty

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Posted: 14 years ago

#16

Urmila

Thanks for this account - yeah, it does sound more credible to me. I find it somewhat hard to believe the other account - that Radha married Raayan/Ayaan after Krishna's departure, and given how readily Krishna married all the 8 wives that he had (I'm not counting Narakasura's captives for the moment), it seems that had Radha been unmarried, Krishna would have gone all the way and married her, rather than leave that unfulfilled. But if she was already married, that would explain his seranading her from a respectable distance.
Oh, that's really very interesting information, can you please tell me what is that source? I will love to read it! Actually, different sources show the same incident differently, as usual. But if we want to accept only the main source Brambha Vaivart Puran, then we can see that Radha married Krishna when she was young lady & Krishna was a little boy, & that incident was shown before her marriage with Rayaan, (have you read my previous posts in this thread?), but I'm not sure whether she married Rayaan after Krishna's departure or before that, I didn't find any source to clarify it. But it's my personal believe that Radha was not then in the mental stage to marry another person, & according to the Bengali literature, it is clearly written that when Radha went to meet Krishna secretly, she had to suffer criticisms from her mother-in law & sister-in-law, who were against her & were always ready to complain Ayaan against her! As per my knowledge, Radha's great pain was only shown in each source after Krishna's departure, then the poets were not interested about her marriage/ marital life. I didn't find a single trace of Rayaan/ Ayaan after Krishna's departure, only Radha's viraha was in limelight then, not her husband!

On your surprise about why the original Krishna serial didn't reflect what you read in Bong texts, reason is that these translations happened long after the original events, and the authors typically did have/ make use of poetic license. To use a Ramayan analogy, there is nothing in Valmiki about Rama worshipping Durga before his war w/ Ravan, or the 108 lotuses, or his war w/ Ahiravan & Mahiravan, or Luv/Kush stopping his Ashwamedha horse, but it's all there in Krittivas Ojha's Ramayan. So in addition to translating, obviously he added a lot. (Incidentally, have you read his version of the Ramayan? Unfortunately, I'm not as fluent in reading Bengali as much as speaking it, and even if I was, it's written in a poetic template in 15th century Bengali that's tough to follow.) Similarly, other authors of stories about the Vedic period often took liberties w/ the stories e.g. Durvasha's curse to Shakuntala that Dushyant would forget her was a Kalidas invention.
Yes, I know all these facts you mentioned! I have read Krittivaas Ramayan so much that I can recite almost the entire Krittivaas version without the book! It's my very dear scripture! The Durga Puja of bengal has come from the concept of Durga Puja in this Ramayan. The Ahiravan/ Mahiravan story was shown in many serials (may be in new Ramayan of NDTV?) & in many movies too, as per I know! & the Luv Kush's war, Krittivaas adopted the story from Padma Puran (Patal Khand) & he told this source there. He also told there that it's not found in Valmiki Ramayan. You know, the Lakshman rekha is also not found in Valmiki, it is a Krittivaas invention too! & yes, Durvasa's curse to Shakuntala is Kalidaas invention indeed. Kalidaas did it to save his hero Dusmanta's character. Btw-have you read the other Sanskrit plays/ poems about Ramayan? In Vabhabhuti's "UttarRamCharitam", the poet showed that Ram & Sita became united again, & he avoided the "Patal prabesh"!

The above controversy that I mentioned regarding the Krishna-Radha marriage happened in the 80s or 90s in Kolkata, and I recall that it did stir some controversy, not least b'cos of the lavish way in which it was done. During that time, I recall reading someone mention that Radha was already married, so no way was it possible for her to marry Krishna. In fact, if anything, their story is sometimes held out as a model of how 2 people can be great lovers but it's not in their fate to be married.
I think this is tragic indeed, but if we remember that they are Vishnu & Lakshmi, then they are ever married, why do we weep for their separation? The all incidents were fixed before, & Radha Krishna knew well about their coming separation!

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Vrish

@Vr15h

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Posted: 14 years ago

#17

Originally posted by: Urmila11

Urmila

The first didn't have any source - it was something I analyzed in my mind, and just weighing in on what made more sense. Had Radha married Krishna, she'd not have had any MIL or SIL, let alone them having any leg to stand on regarding her fidelity. That's why I believe the account you had written of Raayan being married to her prior to her meeting Krishna.

I'm aware of how Uttar Ramcharitas ends, and there, Luv fought Lakshman's son Chandraketu (that was a name I assumed on the Ramayan forum when I used to post there) - Kush wasn't involved in the fighting, and neither were BLS.

I'm glad to see someone who knows the Krittivas Ramayan from front to back - I've been longing to meet someone who knows it, since I have tons of questions. Maybe you can start another thread to discuss just the Krittivasi Ramayan - I have tons of questions about many events - don't want to hijack this thread doing that.

Edited by _Vrish_ - 14 years ago

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Semanti Chakraborty

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Posted: 14 years ago

#18

@ Vrish, I'm also very glad to know that you are so much interested about my favorite Krittivaas Ramayan, I will definitely love to open a thread only for Krittivaas version, but do you want to make that as a doubts & discussions one? I think we should not do that & continue such things in our doubts & discussion thread. You can freely ask me your questions regarding Krittivaas Ramayan, I will try to clarify your doubts as my best, but please ask Lola that in which thread we should start that, I think it's better.

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Vrish

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Posted: 14 years ago

#19

No, just open a thread called 'Kritvasi Ramayan' or something along those lines - it doesn't need to be sticky - and we can just discuss things just related to this version over there. I believe (Lola can clarify) that Lola doesn't want multiple threads on the same topic, but I doubt that this topic has even been touched on this forum. That way, it would be easy to find anything on Krittivas, rather than search a more general discussion thread. The Doubts & Discussions thread that I started was for sundry items, not for covering an entire genre.

You'd have been useful had you been around when the Ramayan forum (dedicated to the AS Ramayan) was on. I had these doubts then, but nobody there seemed familiar w/ that version.

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MagadhSundari

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Posted: 14 years ago

#20

Sema, bindaas khol de nayi thread 👍🏼 Even I'm very interested to know which of the stories I've seen/heard came from Kritivaas Ramayan! In fact everywhere possible, I've been emphasizing the fact that I'd love to see whole threads dedicated to topics that have the scope for them... we have a whole forum to ourselves, let's use it! In fact I think even our current discussions on Parshuram and Vaaman @ the Doubts thread could use threads of their own, since there are multiple answers coming in and it's worth further debate. Maybe I should mention that there, that might be a better idea :P

As far as the discussion in this Radha thread, thank you Sema for sharing what you shared with us along with the source name... will def try to check that out if a translation is available. I recall reading Radha's husband's name as Chandrasen somewhere, along with a Chhaya-Sita type story of how she took on a shadow form in order to go through with the marriage that was, as you said, the result of a curse. I wanna say it was in something written by either Jiva or Rupa Goswami, but in one of the Sandharbas rather than an actual narrative text - so the story was referred to in the context of another point, but not told in detail. Will see what I can dig up on that in the coming weeks and share if I find anything.

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