- BR Chopra's Perfect Paradise #1 - - Page 7

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MagadhSundari thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#61
^^ I saw that, and I saw your comment under the vid too... good catch 😆 I'm upto the last part they've uploaded on the 12th, it's like 30-something, and no sign of them showing either the Pandav's ascent or Shri Krishna's... they're still stuck on the Ulupi story for the past several episodes :/ The Pandavs' ascent, I too would really like to see onscreen! So many great legends have come out of it. Anyway, update on what they have shown:
Good to see SK's Satyabhama as Ulupi's mom. She herself... no comment.
The past 6-7 epis before this were about reforming Shakuni's son, further bolstering my theory that this show is all hugs and apologies in attempt to soften up the hardcore battles of its predecessor. One loonnnggg guilt trip.
Speaking of Shakuni, they got Sulakshana Khatri (Mandvi/Rohini of RS's shows) to play his wife! Renuka Israni improved btw, add her to that short list of stuff that got better. Her dialogues are less halting.
Edited by lola610 - 14 years ago
Rehanism thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#62
I don't know why but nobody so far has shown Krishna's death in their serials. Ramanand Sagar who depicted many unnecessary instances in details avoided Krishna's death. They show Ram's departure from earth in every serial but not Krishna's. Perhaps they think that its too ordinary and human death for a God. From his birth to childhood to youth He did countless Leelas, more numerous and more important than all previous Avatars combined, but died like an ordinary mortal - from the arrow of a tribal hunter. But I think its more beautiful than even Shri Ram's grand Mahaprayan - in the sense that Krishna fulfilled the promise which he had made to the dying Bali in Ram Avatar - that in next birth, Bali would kill Ram in the same way Ram killed him.
Edited by Darklord_Rehan - 14 years ago
MagadhSundari thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#63
Though that interpretation does give some beauty to it, I shy away from mahaprayaans in general so I didn't really miss it in either RS or BRC's serials 😳 Just a complex I have, I guess, I always leave the last VHS and now DVD of any mytho set I have untouched... I don't want them to end even though I can just watch them from the start again whenever I want 😆 Anddd I get more closure out seeing Treta's Suryaputra Sugreev and Indra-putra Vaali come back as Dwaapar's Suryaputra Karn and Indra-Putra Arjun... both get a chance at being allies of the divine and both get a chance at end-of-life realizations that promise salvation. A realization after which I would hope Vaali had no desire to come back and take revenge on God.
Edited by lola610 - 14 years ago
Rehanism thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#64
Has any of you read the novel "The Palace of Illusions"? Its Mahabharat from Draupadi's POV. Although they have twisted several facts, I found it quite interesting for reading.
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#65

Originally posted by: Darklord_Rehan

Has any of you read the novel "The Palace of Illusions"? Its Mahabharat from Draupadi's POV. Although they have twisted several facts, I found it quite interesting for reading.

I read it, mostly because I love the author's writing, but I actually didn't like it at all. It's true that it was an "interesting" read, but the way they made it seem saas-bahu with their Draupadi-Kunti conflicts and their Kunti-Ambika/Ambalika conflicts, and the way Draupadi constantly crushed after Karna and wished he was part of the Pandavas just so she could be his wife too really degraded her character. They made her seem kind of loose.🤢 And even Krishna was weird....the book was very much a 'novel' in its true sense and not at all like the epic. Only Duryodhan and Karna were true to their character.
Sorry if you like it, I don't mean to hurt your feelings or anything, but I've read better novels based on the Mahabharat that did not degrade the characters.😳
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#66

Originally posted by: lola610

Anddd I get more closure out seeing Treta's Suryaputra Sugreev and Indra-putra Vaali come back as Dwaapar's Suryaputra Karn and Indra-Putra Arjun... both get a chance at being allies of the divine and both get a chance at end-of-life realizations that promise salvation. A realization after which I would hope Vaali had no desire to come back and take revenge on God.

Yeah, I too have a hard time believeing the story that it was Vali who came back to 'kill' Krishna, because it does not flow with the other events of the avatars. Sugreev was friends with Ram, and Arjun was friends with Krishna. Both Arjun and Vali were Indra-putra, so in a sense they were the same and both got to taste friendship with the Lord.
Even if they were not, it is said that those who are directly killed by the Lord get moksha (except if they were like Jaya/Vijaya who had to undergo three births because of a curse), so despite all the sins Vali had committed, Shri Ram had submerged all of them in his mercy when he killed him, so Vali should have gotten moksha instead of coming back as a hunter to kill Krishna. Also, Ram himself explained in great detail (both in Valmiki Ramayan and RCM) why it was not a sin to kill Vali from behind a tree, so unless Ram was lying (which I have a hard time believing🤓), he would not have accumulated any Karma to undergo in Krishna avatar.
In my opinion, that hunter who "killed" Shri Krishna only did so because Krishna needed an easy way to leave the Earth, and no one can kill him through battle since he is God himself. It was another one of Krishna's leelas that a mere hunter caused his Samadhi, but I don't think it is related to Vali or Ram Avatar.
Edited by JanakiRaghunath - 14 years ago
Rehanism thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#67
Obviously you haven't hurt my feelings any way. But actually I liked these ordinary saas-bahu fights, jealousy between wives, desire for admiration from the "man with ancient eyes" - I found them quite human unlike the ideal situations where these characters are presented as perfect and obedient and selfless people. However the Karna-Draupadi affair was stretched a bit, as though that was the main theme. But I liked Krishna very much. His subtlety, his philosophy wrapped in little quips, his walk on a thin line separating Divinity from Humanity - that is how I have personally imagined Krishna to be.

But as I said if you look for authenticity, or if you look at it as the Epic Mahabharat, obviously its unimpressive. Because Mahabharat is largely the tale of the Males of the society, written from the point of view of the men. We can't expect to get the same product if things are told from the POV of a female and that also somebody who's not directly present in 70% of the epic.

But please give me the names of some more novels if you can. It would be really a favour. I mainly download them in PDF format. I hate reading books as such.
Rehanism thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#68

Originally posted by: JanakiRaghunath

Yeah, I too have a hard time believeing the story that it was Vali who came back to 'kill' Krishna, because it does not flow with the other events of the avatars. Sugreev was friends with Ram, and Arjun was friends with Krishna. Both Arjun and Vali were Indra-putra, so in a sense they were the same and both got to taste friendship with the Lord.
Even if they were not, it is said that those who are directly killed by the Lord get moksha (except if they were like Jaya/Vijaya who had to undergo three births because of a curse), so despite all the sins Vali had committed, Shri Ram had submerged all of them in his mercy when he killed him, so Vali should have gotten moksha instead of coming back as a hunter to kill Krishna. Also, Ram himself explained in great detail (both in Valmiki Ramayan and RCM) why it was not a sin to kill Vali from behind a tree, so unless Ram was lying (which I have a hard time believing🤓), he would not have accumulated any Karma to undergo in Krishna avatar.
In my opinion, that hunter who "killed" Shri Krishna only did so because Krishna needed an easy way to leave the Earth, and no one can kill him through battle since he is God himself. It was another one of Krishna's leelas that a mere hunter caused his Samadhi, but I don't think it is related to Vali or Ram Avatar.


You are right that it was not a sin to kill Bali from behind. But forget not, Ram was not Krishna. Krishna might not have bothered at all - he killed most people in that way. Because His Avatar was boundless and free from all worldly restrictions. But Ram Avatar was much more restrictive - Shri Ram was Maryada Purushottam. And this was the only occasion when He violated His Maryada. That is why he had to repay his debts to Bali by getting killed at his hands in the similar way. And as far killing Krishna is concerned, nobody - not even Mahadev - can kill Krishna in any circumstance. Krishna can be 'killed' only when He wishes to be killed. He could have died in a battle like a Hero, but He chose to die in that mean manner in which He killed Bali. Otherwise Krishna too could have directly ascended to His abode without passing through an ordinary human death, like Shri Ram did.
Edited by Darklord_Rehan - 14 years ago
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#69

Originally posted by: Darklord_Rehan


You are right that it was not a sin to kill Bali from behind. But forget not, Ram was not Krishna. Krishna might not have bothered at all - he killed most people in that way. Because His Avatar was boundless and free from all worldly restrictions. But Ram Avatar was much more restrictive - Shri Ram was Maryada Purushottam. And this was the only occasion when He violated His Maryada. That is why he had to repay his debts to Bali by getting killed at his hands in the similar way. And as far killing Krishna is concerned, nobody - not even Mahadev - can kill Krishna in any circumstance. Krishna can be 'killed' only when He wishes to be killed. He could have died in a battle like a Hero, but He chose to die in that mean manner in which He killed Bali. Otherwise Krishna too could have directly ascended to His abode without passing through an ordinary human death, like Shri Ram did.

If killing Vali from behind was not a sin, then how was Shri Ram violating his Maryada? In fact, I take the Vali Vadh story to be another instance where Ram was following his Maryada, not breaking it.
I also heard another story explaining why Krishna left Earth in such a manner, and it was not related to Vali at all. I forgot most of it, but I remember it concerned the Nishada hunter that Sage Valmiki cursed because he had killed one of the Krauncha birds and caused the death of the other.
I guess the Vali story makes sense if we believe that the hunter who caused Krishna to leave Earth was not a re-incarnation of Vali, but simply a hunter who mistook Krishna's foot for a deer's eye. Because I tend to believe Vali achieved moksha for dying at the hands of God, so it makes much more sense to think Shri Krishna as Shri Ram simply chose this manner of leaving the Earth to repay his debt to Vali. But that brings us to another question....why did Ram himself not leave Earth in such a manner? Why did he have to wait for Krishna avatar?
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#70

Originally posted by: Darklord_Rehan

Obviously you haven't hurt my feelings any way. But actually I liked these ordinary saas-bahu fights, jealousy between wives, desire for admiration from the "man with ancient eyes" - I found them quite human unlike the ideal situations where these characters are presented as perfect and obedient and selfless people. However the Karna-Draupadi affair was stretched a bit, as though that was the main theme. But I liked Krishna very much. His subtlety, his philosophy wrapped in little quips, his walk on a thin line separating Divinity from Humanity - that is how I have personally imagined Krishna to be.

But as I said if you look for authenticity, or if you look at it as the Epic Mahabharat, obviously its unimpressive. Because Mahabharat is largely the tale of the Males of the society, written from the point of view of the men. We can't expect to get the same product if things are told from the POV of a female and that also somebody who's not directly present in 70% of the epic.

But please give me the names of some more novels if you can. It would be really a favour. I mainly download them in PDF format. I hate reading books as such.

See, I would not have minded these saas-bahu fights had they been more subtle. It kind of gets annoying when books, movies, and/or serials take them to another level and make it seem like all MILs and DILs are like that with each other. My cousins love their mothers-in-law, my aunts love their daughters-in-law, etc, and we also have to keep in mind that for us, fights and all are realistic because we live in the Kali Yuga, and though the people of Dwapar Yuga had more faults than the people of Treta Yuga, there were a LOT more ideal than people are now. DILs respected their MILs and learned to love them like their mothers, and MILs considered DILs like their real daughters and treated them with genuine affection. Of course, conflicts still existed as is evidenced by the Mahabharata, but we cannot attribute our Kali Yug faults to Dwapar Yuga and call that realistic. The problem with 'Palace of Illusions' is that it did not seem like a story of the Dwapar Yuga, but Kali Yuga. Where in the Mahabharata did it say that Kunti and Draupadi were constant rivals and hated each other? I cannot stand those kinds of embellishments because they totally destroy the characters.
One more thing, the beginning of Kali Yuga too was a lot more ideal than now, because my grandfather used to tell us a lot of stories about the kind of lifestyle he used to lead when he was a kid, and it was very strict and idealistic. Also, if you think about the great historical figures in our history, like Chanakya, Prithviraj Chauhan, Anand Math, etc, they were very ideal too compared to the political figures now....so saying the Palace of Illusions is like Mahabharata during Kali Yuga is wrong. It was like the Mahabharata during the 21st century.😆
Krishna's character in PoL was not that bad, but sometimes he did not seem serious enough, and though Shri Krishna in reality was the joking type, he also had his serious moments. But you're right, PoL's philosophical moments were great.👏
My problem is not that of the POV being of a female, I've read another story through Draupadi's POV and it was very much authentic to the events and characterization of Mahabharata...it seemed just like reading the Mahabharata through Draupadi's eyes, and there was another one with Kunti. I don't remember the exact titles, but I'll hunt them up and give them to you when I find them.
Edited by JanakiRaghunath - 14 years ago

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