riddle me this. - Page 4

Originally posted by: R.Pandey

Because she's vulnerable.. she is a 20 year old girl who thought she had a miscarriage, then was told that she can never be a mom and not even a day later she has been subjected to such vile words and behaviour by someone she really loves and respects.. she is not in a mentally good space.. so if once in a while she is getting help from the person who is supposed to help her.. her own husband.. I don't think it's anything wrong.. people had problems when makers were trying to make her Mahaan during Uday case and then dowry case saying they made Aryan a side character and now when they are showing her weak who needs help and Aryan as someone who will help her, people have problem with that too..

Regarding the women who are silent spectators.. this is the reality of this world.. irl specially in India, noone takes a stand for other people, nobody wants to interfere in others family matters.

Also don't forget the place this whole incident happened was inside that ashram.. so all the women there were the one who share the same thought process as Narmada and others.. you cannot expect them to take a stand for Imlie.

I dont think we were against Imlie standing up for what she believes, standing against injustice or what she think is wrong. We also agree both partners are each others support system in a relation. We also accept one can get numb when in shock but this is also true or a fact that we dont change as a person whether one is 15 year or 20 year or 40 year old.

We as a audience may have problem that she is tolerating crap, her not standing for herself to an extent to allow abuse and torture but most importantly we have problem with makers who is showing this abuse and to a 19 year old.

Originally posted by: R.Pandey

Because she's vulnerable.. she is a 20 year old girl who thought she had a miscarriage, then was told that she can never be a mom and not even a day later she has been subjected to such vile words and behaviour by someone she really loves and respects.. she is not in a mentally good space.. so if once in a while she is getting help from the person who is supposed to help her.. her own husband.. I don't think it's anything wrong.. people had problems when makers were trying to make her Mahaan during Uday case and then dowry case saying they made Aryan a side character and now when they are showing her weak who needs help and Aryan as someone who will help her, people have problem with that too..

Regarding the women who are silent spectators.. this is the reality of this world.. irl specially in India, noone takes a stand for other people, nobody wants to interfere in others family matters.

Also don't forget the place this whole incident happened was inside that ashram.. so all the women there were the one who share the same thought process as Narmada and others.. you cannot expect them to take a stand for Imlie.

i get what you’re saying. but my question is not, why does Imlie require saving. my question is, why should she require saving.

this is the girl that looked a terrorist dead in the eye and stuck a screwdriver in his throat, even while surrounded by a bunch of policemen with pointed guns and Aryan himself. yes, it’s a fact that she is a girl of only 20. and yes, it’s also a fact that she is absolutely allowed to grieve, to have weak and vulnerable moments, and look to her partner for solace, just as anyone else is. but does either of these facts take away from or diminish her strength? it does not, and it should not.

not just Imlie, every woman is fully able and capable of doing what’s right by herself. the narrative that a woman mandatorily requires a man (or anyone else at all, for that matter) to do what’s right by her, for her, needs to stop being perpetuated. this is the point i’m trying to make.

ps. this works either way for both sexes.

Originally posted by: handlerxsaviour

i get what you’re saying. but my question is not, why does Imlie require saving. my question is, why should she require saving.

this is the girl that looked a terrorist dead in the eye and stuck a screwdriver in his throat, even while surrounded by a bunch of policemen with pointed guns and Aryan himself. yes, it’s a fact that she is a girl of only 20. and yes, it’s also a fact that she is absolutely allowed to grieve, to have weak and vulnerable moments, and look to her partner for solace, just as anyone else is. but does either of these facts take away from or diminish her strength? it does not, and it should not.

not just Imlie, every woman is fully able and capable of doing what’s right by herself. the narrative that a woman mandatorily requires a man (or anyone else at all, for that matter) to do what’s right by her, for her, needs to stop being perpetuated. this is the point i’m trying to make.

ps. this works either way for both sexes.

I agree to your point that a woman should not require a man to save her, I was never against this. Even I wanted Imlie to stand up for herself so badly but I also understand why she couldn't.

The way I see it everytime Imlie fought with someone it was someone she considered her enemy.. be it Malini or Anu or BD-BM, atank or purandas or the Mirchi bazaar wale.

She does not consider Narmada her enemy. She know what Narmada doing is wrong but she does not fault her for it. In her eyes, I think, she links it with Narmada's pain of never be able to become a grandma and she somewhere feels guilty for it (when she shouldn't). I also feel that the vile things Narmada said to her is getting to her and is making her feel more guilty and vulnerable. I feel it's that guilt that made her agree to it. In her eyes she might have thought if doing this is going to make Narmada happy she would do it because that's how she is.. she would do anything for her loved ones.. anything no matter how ridiculous that is. That's how much she craves their affection.

She is very strong when it comes to fighting the whole world but she is not that strong when it comes to fighting against her loved one and that's why this emotional fool requires Aryan who thinks rationally even in situations like this.

That's my understanding of the situation. I may be wrong but that's how I feel Imlie let this abusive behaviour happen to herself and why they had to show Aryan saving her.

Tbh I won't be surprised at all if we see her defending Narmada in front of Aryan in today's episode.

Originally posted by: R.Pandey

She does not consider Narmada her enemy. She know what Narmada doing is wrong but she does not fault her for it. In her eyes, I think, she links it with Narmada's pain of never be able to become a grandma and she somewhere feels guilty for it (when she shouldn't). I also feel that the vile things Narmada said to her is getting to her and is making her feel more guilty and vulnerable. I feel it's that guilt that made her agree to it. In her eyes she might have thought if doing this is going to make Narmada happy she would do it because that's how she is.. she would do anything for her loved ones.. anything no matter how ridiculous that is. That's how much she craves their affection.

She is very strong when it comes to fighting the whole world but she is not that strong when it comes to fighting against her loved one and that's why this emotional fool requires Aryan who thinks rationally even in situations like this.

That's my understanding of the situation. I may be wrong but that's how I feel Imlie let this abusive behaviour happen to herself and why they had to show Aryan saving her.

Originally posted by: handlerxsaviour

another issue that i have with the current narrative, is the manner in which Aryan’s “the quintessential itv ml”, “heroic” persona is being maintained in the show. not only has the focus not-so-subtly shifted from Imlie’s ordeal to Aryan’s handling of her ordeal in order to demonstrate this, but they’ve also quite plainly “dumbed down” the female characters in the story to further facilitate this. these female characters are portrayed as being unable to pragmatize or rationalize anything, with the ml being the only clear-headed, logically sound, rational, character in the story. his function is seemingly to make an entrance at the opportune time (once these women are practically done fighting and thoroughly demeaning each other amongst themselves, that is), “school” them with a couple wise lines, and finally “restore peace in the universe again”. what this then does, is perpetually condition the audience’s minds to this idea that the ml is the only capable one to “set things right” because the women are always either “too emotional”, “too irrational”, or “clueless”. what the writers aren’t getting, is that a truly strong male lead/character is never established on the foundation of “dumbed down” female characters. rather, a truly strong male lead/character is one whose strength is established alongside that of the female characters, in his own right.

I just realised that we are discussing two different things...

While I was majorly focused on this particular incident of ashram.. you were talking about the plot as a whole.. so obviously we'll have our differences.

However the one thing I will point out that in my opinion Imlie is not "dumbed down".. I say this because after Arylie's wedding and before Jo's entry, she was the one who did everything... She was smart enough to figure out the truth of Arvind's death (which ASR couldn't do for last 4 years mind you), she was the one who brought out Uday's true face, she got Surpita married and she was the one who solved the dowry matter, she also arranged the blood for Aryan against all odds even though it was not used..

It came to a point where people on twitter were angry that Aryan's character was "dumbed down" for Imlie.. So Imo neither of the character is dumbed down.. for now atleast.

The actual problem with everything so far is that the makers have made both the characters very strong but they have not realised how to create a balance between them.. except for their fighting sequence.. so this disbalance in every track is making some of the audience frustrated.

I personally don't think they have reached the point where audience feel like it's only the ML who is saving the day.. atleast not yet.

I love this OST from Sinf e Aahan (Woman of Iron).

This is dedicated to all beautiful ladies on this forum and out there.

Please know you are strong and when you are determined you can conquer the world.

To all mothers who have daughters, make your daughter/s Iron woman who cannot be broken or bend easily.

Chalein us baadal pe

udein us aanchal pe

Hamare haanth hai duniyan

hamare saath hai duniyan

hum apne geet likhen ge

hum apni reet likhen ge

chal padi tu kis raste dewani

tu kalam khud likh le apni kahani

kismat ki lakeeren chod de

Teri funk se badlen roz ye

Ghunti pad jai ye duniya sari

Tu nahi kamzor aa laga le zor

Kar buland parcham aaise hamara

Ke dekhe duniya teri himmat aaise

Justuju teri

Nazuk kah waar kare jo

tod de ungli

Rasme saari tod ke aayi

ab suney man ki

Mitti ke gudiya na samjhe

ab hame koi

Ahsaan ye tere kadam

Pahchan tu sinf e ahan

Roke na bhi tu ruk na paay

kar le khud se ye ahad

Chudiyoon ki zanjeer ko tode

ummeedon ki ek laher

Haan seekha maine apne

aap me jeena

Mujh me hai ye dum

Hai mushkil raaston pe chalna

Bhul ke saare ghum

Iraade tere humko ye batayen

jeet ka hai azam

Hai duniya bole jo bhi humko

hai sath rab har kadam

Tu nahi kamzor aa laga le zor

Kar buland parcham aaise hamara

Ke dekhe duniya teri himmat aaise

Justuju teri

Nazuk kah war kare jo

tod de ungli

Rasme saari tod ke aayi

ab sune man ki

Mitti ke gudiya na samjhe

Ab hame koi

Ahsaan ye tere kadam

Pehchan tu sinf e ahan

Originally posted by: handlerxsaviour

let’s run with the current story for a minute. a woman (we’ll factor out her IQ & strength levels for all intents and purposes) is being subjected to a very public dehumanisation, humiliation, and stigmatisation, by another woman under the manipulation and instigation of some women, whilst being surrounded by a bunch of other women, some of whom actively participate in the further degradation of the said woman, while others play mere bystanders silently bearing witness to that woman’s ordeal. then, a man swoops in from seemingly nowhere, “rescues” said woman from all these women, and ultimately “saves the day”. do you guys see the trouble with this narrative?

i’m going to ask this question yet again: whose story are we watching?

i’ll ask one more: what is the purpose of the story we are watching?

I have this question for years now, why these soap opera queens are making these type of shows

Originally posted by: R.Pandey

I just realised that we are discussing two different things...

While I was majorly focused on this particular incident of ashram.. you were talking about the plot as a whole.. so obviously we'll have our differences.

However the one thing I will point out that in my opinion Imlie is not "dumbed down".. I say this because after Arylie's wedding and before Jo's entry, she was the one who did everything... She was smart enough to figure out the truth of Arvind's death (which ASR couldn't do for last 4 years mind you), she was the one who brought out Uday's true face, she got Surpita married and she was the one who solved the dowry matter, she also arranged the blood for Aryan against all odds even though it was not used..

It came to a point where people on twitter were angry that Aryan's character was "dumbed down" for Imlie.. So Imo neither of the character is dumbed down.. for now atleast.

The actual problem with everything so far is that the makers have made both the characters very strong but they have not realised how to create a balance between them.. except for their fighting sequence.. so this disbalance in every track is making some of the audience frustrated.

I personally don't think they have reached the point where audience feel like it's only the ML who is saving the day.. atleast not yet.

the ashram scene, if you realise, actually played out exactly as i had said it would. no thanks to the makers, it served as a spot on depiction of my point.

allow me to provide you with another example. remember when arylie arrived at the Rathore Mansion after their fake wedding? Narmada’s first response to it, was that Aryan must have forced Imlie into that situation. this was a logically sound, rational Narmada. this was how she was originally written. ff to now, we see a Narmada who’s plainly denying everything (i.e. the whole Imlie-Aditya-Malini situation) she saw and heard unfold with her very own eyes and ears over a period of months, and drawing the most inexplicable and illogical links/conclusions between that situation and Aryan’s sustaining injuries. why this drastic change in the character’s thought process? who benefitted from this change? Imlie? if that was the case, we would have seen her act and subsequently be perceived by the audience very differently. this change was brought about for Aryan’s benefit. plainly, this change was brought about to maintain the relevance of Aryan and his “heroic” persona to the story.

here’s the thing. i’m all for a (genuine) feministic ml. but at the same time, i won’t be blind to the cost of it. the cost of 1 feministic ml on this show currently, is the “dumbing down” of 5/6 of its female characters. and that is not genuine feminism. i mentioned this in a previous reply, i’ll reiterate it here. a truly strong, feministic male lead/character is never established on the foundation of “dumbed down” female characters. rather, a truly strong, feministic male lead/character is one whose strength is established alongside that of the female characters, in his own right.

Originally posted by: handlerxsaviour

the ashram scene, if you realise, actually played out exactly as i had said it would. no thanks to the makers, it served as a spot on depiction of my point.

allow me to provide you with another example. remember when arylie arrived at the Rathore Mansion after their fake wedding? Narmada’s first response to it, was that Aryan must have forced Imlie into this situation. this was a logically sound, rational Narmada. this was how she was originally written. ff to now, we see a Narmada who’s plainly denying everything she saw and heard unfold with her very own eyes and ears over a period of months (i.e. the whole Imlie-Aditya-Malini situation), and drawing the most inexplicable and illogical links/conclusions between that situation and Aryan’s sustaining injuries. why this drastic change in the character’s thought process? who benefitted from this change? Imlie? if that was the case, we would have seen her act and subsequently be perceived by the audience very differently. this change was brought about for Aryan. plainly, this change was brought about to maintain the relevance of Aryan and his “heroic” persona to the story.

here’s the thing. i’m all for a (genuine) feministic ml. but at the same time, i won’t be blind to the cost of it. the cost of 1 feministic ml on this show currently, is the “dumbing down” of 5/6 of its female characters. and that is not genuine feminism. i mentioned this in a previous reply, i’ll reiterate it here. a truly strong, feministic male lead/character is never established on the foundation of “dumbed down” female characters. rather, a truly strong, feministic male lead/character is one whose strength is established alongside that of the female characters, in his own right.

I am happy to see like-minded ppl in this world.

But I have an issue with the word feminist that ppl try to use as a tag too.

Someone who thinks everyone is equal will not judge a female if she cooks for her male partner if thats her choice nor by cooking for your female partner you become a feminist.

I will give you an example. I happen to celebrate birthdays. I feel this is one day, one should pamper self or others. So I pamper myself royally and also may go out of my way to make it special for my loved ones and friends. But I remember I had once asked a colleague what she was planning for her husband birthday and knowing how foody her husband is asked if she had plans to make anything his fav. I was immediately questioned by my other so called feminist colleagues how can I expect her to cook etc and if I think cooking is her job. I was surprised with their reactions. Honestly If I knew her husband personally I would have asked same question to him on her birthday.

A person is open minded when they dont link any work or profession with gender.

Originally posted by: anabh

I am happy to see like-minded ppl in this world.

But I have an issue with the word feminist that ppl try to use as a tag too.

Someone who thinks everyone is equal will not judge a female if she cooks for her male partner if thats her choice nor by cooking for your female partner you become a feminist.

I will give you an example. I happen to celebrate birthdays. I feel this is one day, one should pamper self or others. So I pamper myself royally and also may go out of my way to make it special for my loved ones and friends. But I remember I had once asked a colleague what she was planning for her husband birthday and knowing how foody her husband is asked if she had plans to make anything his fav. I was immediately questioned by my other so called feminist colleagues how can I expect her to cook etc and if I think cooking is her job. I was surprised with their reactions. Honestly If I knew her husband personally I would have asked same question to him on her birthday.

A person is open minded when they dont link any work or profession with gender.