riddle me this. - Page 3

"a man cannot save a woman. a woman cannot save a man. nobody can save anybody. we each, have to save ourselves. the idea that someone, anyone, from the outside can save us, is a severely romanticised myth at best. "

(from your post above) -- that is exactly my thought. which is why I didn't swoon at the confession or any of the love scenes. there is this constant theme of imlie saying "thanks you saved me" but it is unclear what is imlie bringing to the table. rather than equals, he is relegated to being the wind beneath her wings. thats it. so what about his wings? what about his flight? what about his dreams? see thats why I thought the sudden love arc was unsatisfying to say the least.

and him being her glorified shadow is continuing in the infertility arc. that was one reason I made the post about the male view on infertility -- we don't hear their voices often enough. nowhere in that view was some glorified prince rescue mode -- instead, it was "we are in this pain together and it hurts me just as much as it hurts her".. so am okay with aryan riding into the picture but that works only if they show a couple and not a save mode.

Originally posted by: mango.falooda

"a man cannot save a woman. a woman cannot save a man. nobody can save anybody. we each, have to save ourselves. the idea that someone, anyone, from the outside can save us, is a severely romanticised myth at best. "

(from your post above) -- that is exactly my thought. which is why I didn't swoon at the confession or any of the love scenes. there is this constant theme of imlie saying "thanks you saved me" but it is unclear what is imlie bringing to the table. rather than equals, he is relegated to being the wind beneath her wings. thats it. so what about his wings? what about his flight? what about his dreams? see thats why I thought the sudden love arc was unsatisfying to say the least.

and him being her glorified shadow is continuing in the infertility arc. that was one reason I made the post about the male view on infertility -- we don't hear their voices often enough. nowhere in that view was some glorified prince rescue mode -- instead, it was "we are in this pain together and it hurts me just as much as it hurts her".. so am okay with aryan riding into the picture but that works only if they show a couple and not a save mode.

Originally posted by: handlerxsaviour

let’s run with the current story for a minute. a woman (we’ll factor out her IQ & strength levels for all intents and purposes) is being subjected to a very public dehumanisation, humiliation, and stigmatisation, by another woman under the manipulation and instigation of some women, whilst being surrounded by a bunch of other women, some of whom actively participate in the further degradation of the said woman, while others play mere bystanders silently bearing witness to that woman’s ordeal. then, a man swoops in from seemingly nowhere, “rescues” said woman from all these women, and ultimately “saves the day”. do you guys see the trouble with this narrative?

i’m going to ask this question yet again: whose story are we watching?

i’ll ask one more: what is the purpose of the story we are watching?

Exactly my thought👍🏼. Will pen more shortly

Originally posted by: handlerxsaviour

agreed. the dialogues keep preaching “50-50”, but it’s not showing. what they’re really showing, is pseudo “50-50”. like I mentioned in a previous post of mine, the major issue i have with the show is that Imlie is a false protagonist in her own story. one can tell that the story is revolving around her, but at the same time, she’s getting more and more reduced into a ghost just floating through it barely holding any ground. how does that even work? the writers first need to themselves understand what a true equal partnership looks like. it doesn’t involve anyone saving anyone, or some sort of passive-aggressive dynamic. and definitely stop cutting corners with the storytelling.

before they were rushing through ideas in a week and now we are rushing through arcs in an episode! who goes from being pregnant to having a miscarriage to being declared infertile all in one episode? 🤦🤦🤦

so yes, I agree with you that she does not even seem like a protagonist of her own story and aryan has been increasingly reduced to her sidekick. that seems a bit of an atrocity when we had such an interesting character. I want him to have his own arcs and struggles -- it shouldn't all be about what is imlie's problem this week.

Originally posted by: sheen97

See the way I see it is the things that we always come across situations in our life when no matter how strong we are we just fall apart. We can fight all the world but when a person who you thought was your well wisher suddenly ends up becoming ur enemy you are fall apart. Within days Imlie went through so much . She is currently broken mentally, physically and emotionally. In this I won't expect her to take a stand . She is just not there. Narmada used all her triggers to attack her . Anyone in her place will be broken. When you are so broken , you need someone to rely on . That someone is the only one who has keeps you from loosing battles. That someone is aryan . Aryan gives her strength and she needs him to walk through this phase . When the time comes , I feel she will stand up for herself making aryan proud.

I honestly feel tomorrow aryan will be very disappointed with Imlie. And I hope that he tells her how by not speaking she did herself and him wrong.

Bold - I too feel the same. He will be so disappointed that none of her past experiences nor his mentorship nor his assurances have had an effect on her. Which makes me fear that it's going to be the reason for their separation. Because, even before he fell for her, her tears or she falling weak is what he could never stand with. 😢

Originally posted by: mango.falooda

before they were rushing through ideas in a week and now we are rushing through arcs in an episode! who goes from being pregnant to having a miscarriage to being declared infertile all in one episode? 🤦🤦🤦

so yes, I agree with you that she does not even seem like a protagonist of her own story and aryan has been increasingly reduced to her sidekick. that seems a bit of an atrocity when we had such an interesting character. I want him to have his own arcs and struggles -- it shouldn't all be about what is imlie's problem this week.

I don't disagree with you. But say if you're drowning, you will need someone else to jump in water and take you to the bank by physically pulling you, not by mere words of you can swim (and even swimmers can drown)

That's the situation here.

Plus let's wait to see what happens tomorrow. I've not said a lot of things about today, because i want to see the conclusion of this baba thingy.

Originally posted by: handlerxsaviour

i see all of your points. but hear me out.

i’ll preface this with a dialogue from another beloved show’s (Bepannaah) pivotal scene:

“main tujhe sirf raasta dikha sakti hoon, bacha nahi sakti. tujhe hi apni aap ko bachana hoga.”

a man cannot save a woman. a woman cannot save a man. nobody can save anybody. we each, have to save ourselves. the idea that someone, anyone, from the outside can save us, is a severely romanticised myth at best.

the narrative of this show has for a while now, switched (and not even subtly) from Aryan playing a guide to Imlie, to Aryan playing the “saviour” of Imlie. this is a problem. let’s take the issue at hand - the humiliation of Imlie for her infertility. the general consensus (both here and on social media) after today’s episode, is that everyone wants Aryan to heroically walk in and “thrash” Narmada/BM/BD for humiliating and forcing Imlie to participate in the superstition. but what does Aryan’s action/reaction do for the issue that is the humiliation of Imlie for her infertility? what does this actually do/change about it? even prior to this, we’ve seen Aryan “rescue” Imlie and tell off Narmada/BM/BD for treating her badly. but did it stop them from doing it again for good? no. did it stop her from hurting because of them and their words/actions for good? no.

we keep questioning when the world/society/people will change. but we fail to realise that change never comes from the outside. a change cannot happen for us that did not come from us. abuse and hurt does not stop when someone else says stop on your behalf, it stops when you say stop. shame stops when you say stop. humiliation stops when you say stop. disrespect stops when you say stop. it definitively has to be you that says stop. that is the only way for one to take back their power and control over themselves and their life/thoughts/emotions/relationships.

if the roles were switched, and this was Aryan’s story in which he is shown as constantly being “rescued” by Imlie, i’d still say the same thing. in every story (especially one about empowerment), the person whose story it is has to be the one to rescue themselves. that’s how you drive the story home. you can’t make someone else rescue that person and call it ‘empowering’. and i certainly don’t think any actor’s popularity can/should change this.

You are spot on - Only the person can save themselves. If they don't feel they are entitled or empowered, even if the world is with her, nothing can change the way she feels about herself and speaks for what she wants.

Originally posted by: handlerxsaviour

let’s run with the current story for a minute. a woman (we’ll factor out her IQ & strength levels for all intents and purposes) is being subjected to a very public dehumanisation, humiliation, and stigmatisation, by another woman under the manipulation and instigation of some women, whilst being surrounded by a bunch of other women, some of whom actively participate in the further degradation of the said woman, while others play mere bystanders silently bearing witness to that woman’s ordeal. then, a man swoops in from seemingly nowhere, “rescues” said woman from all these women, and ultimately “saves the day”. do you guys see the trouble with this narrative?

i’m going to ask this question yet again: whose story are we watching?

i’ll ask one more: what is the purpose of the story we are watching?

I agree with everything you mention above. Though I enjoy fantasizing about a prince charming sweeping princess off ground and saving from enemy, I detest showing women as abla bechari types who have zero self respect and need to be saved everytime.

Having your husband support should be sufficient but why should you need your husband to come and save you from situations.

Also, we know MIL can be evil but things are changing and so are we.

This is evident from discussions on this forum on these topics. I dont think either of us here on this forum will tolerate or be part of scheme to humiliate, hurt or stigmatize another woman intentionally. So why keep showing crap from 80s.

I always heard fruit doesnt fall far from tree, so even if Arpita and Aaryan are more influenced/ inspired by their father how can their mother be so evil to allow mutilation? This doesnt align.

CVs have seriously lost their plot just to drag their story forward.

Because she's vulnerable.. she is a 20 year old girl who thought she had a miscarriage, then was told that she can never be a mom and not even a day later she has been subjected to such vile words and behaviour by someone she really loves and respects.. she is not in a mentally good space.. so if once in a while she is getting help from the person who is supposed to help her.. her own husband.. I don't think it's anything wrong.. people had problems when makers were trying to make her Mahaan during Uday case and then dowry case saying they made Aryan a side character and now when they are showing her weak who needs help and Aryan as someone who will help her, people have problem with that too..

Regarding the women who are silent spectators.. this is the reality of this world.. irl specially in India, noone takes a stand for other people, nobody wants to interfere in others family matters.

Also don't forget the place this whole incident happened was inside that ashram.. so all the women there were the one who share the same thought process as Narmada and others.. you cannot expect them to take a stand for Imlie.