DOTW: Did Dumbledore deserve......????

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Awsome DOTW griffy!
Welcome Back btw..
ummmm
Yea I was very disappointed the way Dumbeldore died! He was really a great character, he knew everything and anything! No I don't think he deserved such a death, he did all to help Harry get one step closer to defeat Voldermont, and it was just sad how he begged not to drink the stupid potion!
Ahhh, but I cant wait untill the "important stuff" about Dumbeldore is revieled as JK rowling said!
:D

-Mahak-

Awesome!! nice topic.....

I was totally shocked after reading the death part of Dumbledore especially aftr learning who did it....well but i also feel tht thrz much more to it....mayb v wont be shocked o disaappointed nemore aftr 7th book..coz thrz a long history tht v dont knw wich consists a plan between Dumbledore and Snape..well yeah ok but for sure v wud miss his presence in 7th book as his death is confirmed.... ..well hopefully v wont regret his death aftr Deathly Hallows (Sirius?? still hopess persist 😳 )

Nice topic Griffy and I have quite a bit to chip in, and will do so in a bit....

HOpe you are well and welcome back! 😊

Well...I guessed I must be one of the few people who are not disappointed by Dumbledore's death(but sad...yes I am)

Right from book1, JKR has been portraying DD as a very veyr strong character....he may be old...but he definitely isn't feeble. It was done in some very subtle ways...like his eyes for example. They're very blue and very piercing when he's angry. Also...his aura and the power radiating through him also set his character up in the series. The way he commands respect and yet has a clear veneer of mischief in his eyes makes him a rather formidable opponent when duelling and yet...a rather mild mannered and cool Headmaster.

DD is the grandfather everyone dreams of..and ofcourse the Headmaster we all respect and can call as a friend rather than as an authoritarian figure. This is the character that Jo has set up and portrayed till book4.
But suddenly in OotP, his flaws are pointed out, his relationship with Harry goes sour and Harry turns bitter towards his indifferent attitude. Ofcourse, DD had a good reason to behave so but in OotP, Harry suddenly begins to notice DD's fallibility, his weaknesses...he isshown frailer...well in the earlier books too he was frail and old but that were his physical attributes. However...in OotP, his powers are shown to be on the decline....his aura, though still powerful, doesen't quite have the same command over the readers as in the previous books.

Plus, in the end, he confesses about his mistakes to Harry and we see his weaker side. Also, JKR threw in sentences like: DD suddenly looked very old to Harry. (Not exact quote)

And this trend is further emphasized in HBP...DD is shown weaker than ever...he confesses to Slughorn that his duel with Voldemort left him quite weak and again his scorched hand reminds us of his waning powers.

All throughout HBP, Harry notices his frailness and his age. And all throughout the book, DD is subtly and sometimes not so subtly reminding Harry that it is he, who has to come forward now...as a leader in the fight against the dark side. DD has played his part as a leader for quite sometime but he is not the one who is destined to have a 1 in million chance to defeat Voldemort. It is Harry and Harry alone who has to step forward.

DD can help him....but from the sidelines...the power of DD is not in his physical presence nor in his duelling skills(though they're still formidable) but in his wisdom...He can guide Harry, yes, but not fight for him. Harry has to fight his own battles now. DD cannot protect him any longer as he has done for all his life...he can tell him about Voldemort's Horcruxes and destroy some of them...but ultimately it is Harry who has to bear the major bulk of destroying them.

He can inspire Harry to just chuck off the Prophecy and defeat Voldemort...for his parents and his godfather and all the others wh have suffered.

So...all in all...JKR has been weakening DD....for the climax at the end of the book. The wizard who once said that, "Death is nothing but the next great adventure" is now seen begging Severus Snape to not kill him(apparently). And from his death, we are supposed to conclude that DD's powers had been diminished...

But I think not. It is again showsn..not so subtly..by Jo.Remember the cave? When DD drank the potion, he was writhing around in pain and begging to end it all. I thnk the potion acted similar to a Dementor does..it made DD see his worst fears (Dementor's make you see your worst memories) and so DD was screaming.."Please take me not them" He didn't scream out, "Don't kill me" and that effectively shows that DD's not afraid of death but he's more afraid of his school students to be harmed in any way (I think he was referring to Hogwarts students when he screamed that out)

And such a character...such an amazing wizard, beg Severus Snape, to not kill him? Plus Jo didn't tell us what he was begging Snape for..he only said, "Severus please" and left the statement incomplete which implies that he was not begging for his death but requesting something else altogether.

It's clear, DD had a plan and he was willing to die inorder to execute it. He made himself a pawn in the big game b/w Harry and Voldemort.
I'm sure that in DH we'll come to know through Harry, what exactly his plan was...and I'm sure that there are still many of DD's secrets remaining to be opened and that he will continue to help Harry from the grave.

Remember this quote:

For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of something like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes.

We are yet to find out what that means and Jo told in an interview that it is still very significant to the plot.

hey reallynice topic

but really d'dore dont deserve such a end......its really pathetic....he died 4 his greatness....he died bcoz he luvd givin a prsn a second chnce.....n dats y he had 2 face such an end.....evry1 had dier full respect 4 him...n rowling killed him as if he was nuthn...i dont like him....he dont at all deserve it...d'dore d greatesr wizard of all times shud have a diffrnt or as u say a swish end....hez not a coommn man like evry1...aftr all hez d most intelligent,GREATES WIZARD OF ALL TIMES......

nice topic griffy 😊
well, honestly.... i wasn't really disappointed wid dd's death ..... dd has always been portraid as some great figure, & although he was great, no doubt 😳 , yet death is inevitable.... for everyone....

Originally posted by: shriyaroxxx

nice topic griffy 😊
well, honestly.... i wasn't really disappointed wid dd's death ..... dd has always been portraid as some great figure, & although he was great, no doubt 😳 , yet death is inevitable.... for everyone....

ya but do u thnk he deserve sucha pathetic death?

Originally posted by: xMarauderx

Well...I guessed I must be one of the few people who are not disappointed by Dumbledore's death(but sad...yes I am)

Right from book1, JKR has been portraying DD as a very veyr strong character....he may be old...but he definitely isn't feeble. It was done in some very subtle ways...like his eyes for example. They're very blue and very piercing when he's angry. Also...his aura and the power radiating through him also set his character up in the series. The way he commands respect and yet has a clear veneer of mischief in his eyes makes him a rather formidable opponent when duelling and yet...a rather mild mannered and cool Headmaster.

DD is the grandfather everyone dreams of..and ofcourse the Headmaster we all respect and can call as a friend rather than as an authoritarian figure. This is the character that Jo has set up and portrayed till book4.
But suddenly in OotP, his flaws are pointed out, his relationship with Harry goes sour and Harry turns bitter towards his indifferent attitude. Ofcourse, DD had a good reason to behave so but in OotP, Harry suddenly begins to notice DD's fallibility, his weaknesses...he isshown frailer...well in the earlier books too he was frail and old but that were his physical attributes. However...in OotP, his powers are shown to be on the decline....his aura, though still powerful, doesen't quite have the same command over the readers as in the previous books.

Plus, in the end, he confesses about his mistakes to Harry and we see his weaker side. Also, JKR threw in sentences like: DD suddenly looked very old to Harry. (Not exact quote)

And this trend is further emphasized in HBP...DD is shown weaker than ever...he confesses to Slughorn that his duel with Voldemort left him quite weak and again his scorched hand reminds us of his waning powers.

All throughout HBP, Harry notices his frailness and his age. And all throughout the book, DD is subtly and sometimes not so subtly reminding Harry that it is he, who has to come forward now...as a leader in the fight against the dark side. DD has played his part as a leader for quite sometime but he is not the one who is destined to have a 1 in million chance to defeat Voldemort. It is Harry and Harry alone who has to step forward.

DD can help him....but from the sidelines...the power of DD is not in his physical presence nor in his duelling skills(though they're still formidable) but in his wisdom...He can guide Harry, yes, but not fight for him. Harry has to fight his own battles now. DD cannot protect him any longer as he has done for all his life...he can tell him about Voldemort's Horcruxes and destroy some of them...but ultimately it is Harry who has to bear the major bulk of destroying them.

He can inspire Harry to just chuck off the Prophecy and defeat Voldemort...for his parents and his godfather and all the others wh have suffered.

So...all in all...JKR has been weakening DD....for the climax at the end of the book. The wizard who once said that, "Death is nothing but the next great adventure" is now seen begging Severus Snape to not kill him(apparently). And from his death, we are supposed to conclude that DD's powers had been diminished...

But I think not. It is again showsn..not so subtly..by Jo.Remember the cave? When DD drank the potion, he was writhing around in pain and begging to end it all. I thnk the potion acted similar to a Dementor does..it made DD see his worst fears (Dementor's make you see your worst memories) and so DD was screaming.."Please take me not them" He didn't scream out, "Don't kill me" and that effectively shows that DD's not afraid of death but he's more afraid of his school students to be harmed in any way (I think he was referring to Hogwarts students when he screamed that out)

And such a character...such an amazing wizard, beg Severus Snape, to not kill him? Plus Jo didn't tell us what he was begging Snape for..he only said, "Severus please" and left the statement incomplete which implies that he was not begging for his death but requesting something else altogether.

It's clear, DD had a plan and he was willing to die inorder to execute it. He made himself a pawn in the big game b/w Harry and Voldemort.
I'm sure that in DH we'll come to know through Harry, what exactly his plan was...and I'm sure that there are still many of DD's secrets remaining to be opened and that he will continue to help Harry from the grave.

Remember this quote:


We are yet to find out what that means and Jo told in an interview that it is still very significant to the plot.

completely agree wid you....
In HBP just before snape killed DD there was(acc. to harry)'revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face'...maybe snape was not willing to kill DD...DD saw this and thats why he says 'Severus...please...' maybe he was pleading snape to go on with the plan and kill him!
Even I can't believe that DD wud plead someone not to kill him! He did say in the 1st book that 'to the well-organised mind,death is but the next great adventure'
I am sad that DD died(I havn't cried so much while reading any other book) but I think he died so that his plan works (whatever his plan is)....

Originally posted by: sarah_23

completely agree wid you....
In HBP just before snape killed DD there was(acc. to harry)'revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face'...maybe snape was not willing to kill DD...DD saw this and thats why he says 'Severus...please...' maybe he was pleading snape to go on with the plan and kill him!
Even I can't believe that DD wud plead someone not to kill him! He did say in the 1st book that 'to the well-organised mind,death is but the next great adventure'
I am sad that DD died(I havn't cried so much while reading any other book) but I think he died so that his plan works (whatever his plan is)....

Agree with Harshu and Sarah.... and also thought I'd chip in my thoughts here...

The quote abt the triumphant look in DD's eyes , that Harry notices, well it could be that DD had done , what Voldermort had thought was not possible ... and that he , Lord Voldermort, perceived and believed as being invincible...

In support to what I said: Well , the locket that was secured from the cave seemed that it was Slytherin's locket and which Voldy held dear , for he believed that he was the heir of slytherin and that he had actually had such powerful enchanments protecting the locket... and that it was possibly the way to get around to the other horcruxes, which explains why this particular horcux was protected with such powerful enchantments, which were fatal and considered crude by dumbledore but nevertheless... powerful and Voldy thought no one would sacrifice their lives to get it... for Voldy given his immense power and ability , is at the end of the day an arrogant soul... overlooking the most simple and important and humane details...

Voldermort fears death , and hence his desperation to be immortal.. to beat death rather than accept it as destined... He feared it , and hence his rush and haste in killing the boy , who he believed was referred in the prophecy without finding out all the details... the thought of surrending to death and his end was as repulsive as a fearful thought for Voldermort...

Voldermort used "fear" to get himself his army, his death eaters, he invoked fear to control those he wished to, for he believed fear existed and could do it... which essentially gives away that he feared too... of what ? Well death?? The fateful day ... is proof enough!

He fears it and he so believed , everyone else would and hence the man , used the poison to kill one who tried to fetch the horcrux in the cave..and DD helped harry retrieve the horcruz but gave his life, and well died at the hands of Snape and not the poision that was slowly eating into him! Snape, DD had trusted... and knew that Voldy believed to be on his own side ... and by dying at hands of Snape, or more requesting SNape , was to fool Voldy that Snape had done and in turn ... beat Voldy at his own game... that DD didnt die in the hands of Voldy or his evil magic, but one he trusted and supported the good... It was the curse Avada Kedavra that Snape , his trusted man, cast at his own request that killed him, and not the poision that Voldy had used to protect the horcrux... which is a deafeat in itself for Voldy... and compunded by the fact that the Horcrux, a clue to the rest of the horcruxes was also retrieved....

Triumphant he had to feel , Dumbledore, aint he? Coz he hadnt allowed Voldermort the pleasure of taking his life ( or so will Voldy realize later ), or of having been able to protect his horcrux

Sorry rambled on, but had to chip in.... too much going in my head and had to share! 😉

Jus my thoughts...