Baldev and Gunjan's dysfunctional sibling relationship - Page 4

Originally posted by: .Mandy.

Originally posted by: moniloveasya

frist take a bow for this post
i agree with ur every point
i must say gundev relation is more realistic than ranveera.
its our reflection of our sociaty
bhai kisi ki bhi bahan ke sath ghum sakte hai but bahan ko kisi ke sath badarsat nahi kar sakte .
i love to see gundev relationship more than ranveera hope cvs so that

Agree with the bolded - just like some fathers think they are allowed to be sleazy but majaal hai ke their own daughters get any freedom of choice regarding their life partners. *eyeroll material*

I think for the themes they were trying to address in s1 (pre-leap) exploration of the Ranvi and Veera bond made sense. Their interactions with each other and the manner in which they faced the world together was relevant for those themes. Post-leap (I call it s2) we are seeing some other sorts of themes coming to light and I think the Gunjan/Baldev relationship is the best way in which to really address those themes. If at all the CVs are serious about maintaining the integrity and true soul of the show they need to spend time properly exploring these problems rather than just using them as plot devices for the purposes of romantic tracks.

Originally posted by: samira1984

First of all, I just love your post👏 and agree with you😛,

I am not a Ranjan or Veeba friend but huge Gundev friend.

This two sibling relationship is much more complicated than Ranveera.

I relay want to see their relationship but cvs 😡 always just destroy Gunjan

Thanks samira1984 :) Like you I am not a shipper. And I am quite disappointed that we never saw how the Gunjan and Baldev dynamic changed. I doubt we'll get any flashbacks either :/

Originally posted by: SeaOcean

After a very long time, I've had read a sensible post on this forum. Everyone has become so anti-Gunjan that they have failed to analyse how horrible Baldev has been to Gunjan over all those years. For once, we should keep the Gunjan- ranveera relationship separate from Gundev's. Just becuase Gunjan is been shown grey/negative- does not cover the mistakes that Baldev and Bansuri have committed.

Baldev is a hyprocrite. He himself openly flirts with Veera, buys her gifts but if he sees Gunjan with anyone else- he creates a scene. Fair enough he has never liked Ranvi but if for e.g. he saw Gunjan with another man- would he have still reacted in the same way.

I must admit that Gundev have more chemistry as bro-sis as compared to ranveera but it is such a pity that we hardly get their scenes together and now with Gunjan marrying- there will hardly share screen space.

Once again- a brilliant post indeed. Take a bow

Glad you enjoyed the post SeaOcean. I also got the feeling that Gunjan and Baldev's character flaws are not being given equal weighting in fandom. The one or two intentionally malicious acts of Gunjan are just as bad as the systematic active dislike during childhood and then indifference to her feelings during adulthood that Baldev displays. I mean he has shown more instances of genuine heartfelt concern for Veera than he has for his sister. In his and Gunjan's interactions I do see Baldev has mellowed enough from childhood to have a bond with his sister on some level but that bond is nowhere as considerate and caring as the kind of bond we see him sharing with Veera (ofcourse they have their nok jhok dynamic but you guys know what VeeBa scenes I mean). This is because Baldev's bond with Gunjan also has a bit of "ghar ki izzat" type opinions and other judgemental patriarchal attitudes mixed with it.

Originally posted by: .Mandy.

Before the leap Baldev was shown to be extremely selfish, he could have cared less about anything or anyone and was the complete opposite of who he is now. I would have loved to see how this transformation occurred but I would like to believe that Balwant constantly putting Baldev down played a role in who he is today, I believe the insults and scolding made Baldev all the more determined to prove his father wrong.

yeah would have been interesting to see how he did manage to develop into a semi-decent guy with that background.

Originally posted by: .Mandy.

As for Baldev and Gunjan, I do not think its a matter of him treating Gunjan differently from how he treats Veera, its a matter of right v/s wrong. Baldev did blame Ranvi and Veera for Gunjan's wedding being called off but he never resorted to hurting them to an extent where he gets pleasure in their suffering. Its like he told Gunjan, there are limits even between enemies and Gunjan went too far.Gunjan's actions on the whole lately have given Baldev enough reasons to scold her and be disappointed

Agreed that Baldev has evolved enough in life that he isn't that malicious kid anymore. Good for him - that has to be commended for sure. But him taking the right stance in some instances (like about Veera's origin) I think doesn't excuse his continuing wrong stance where he allows (just like Balwant) Gunjan's rights to be trampled in the house. It is NOT intentional on his part - NONE of what I have mentioned in my post about Baldev's duality is intentional done by him...But it is systematic/consistent and I just think that at some point the writers will have to deal with this.
We have to see him coming to terms with the fact that the reason Veera (someone he is falling for) is who she is is because of the family she grew up in - a loving and supportive household no matter the difficult circumstances of her background. Whereas the reason Gunjan (his sister that he doesn't "get") is the way she is is because of their family circumstances. He has got to try and understand himself and his sister for his character transformation to appear complete on the show.

BTW not sure if I have said this but I don't disagree or take offense at Baldev finding Gunjan's Veera-related actions in bad taste. I disagree with his general treatment of Gunjan and if we take only the Veera example then I disagree with the manner in which he portrays his disapproval, though I realise that at THIS point in time it is in character for him. Again, I think this will have to change if the writing is supposed to show his character evolution.

Originally posted by: herebedragons

I think I'd like to see this too.

Also, I think it'd be fascinating to get to see more with regard to the functioning of this family as a whole and their changing and growing relationships with each other as opposed to just the dynamics between Baldev and Gunjan (For example, the dynamics between Gunjan-Bansuri, Balwant-Baldev)...much in the way that we're privy to every nuance and change in dynamic with regard to relationships in the Sampooran family...if you know what I mean.

(Am I making sense? 😊 )

Your post made for an interesting (and insightful) read. Thank you for sharing.

Hey herebedragons - you did make sense. I also think that now is the time to properly focus and deconstruct that family's relationship dynamics. And let's not forget that Balwant has a daughter from a previous marriage that he gave up in order to marry Bansuri. So he's not all mahaan by any means - someone should definitely question him on how he ever went through with it. And would love to see this daughter return and what Baldev and Gunjan make of her. Will Gunjan be jealous that she grew up in a more loving family (presumably her nana nani's?)? Will Baldev confront his father for being an irresponsible man himself (ulta chor kohtwaal ko daante!)? There is still potential for Baldev-Balwant dynamic to evolve, and I definitely HOPE at some point Baldev comes to understand how selfish a person his mother is and hopefully confront her over the Gunjan issue... but if this show is skilled enough we should also see some showdowns between Gunjan and Bansuri. I think Gunjan needs closure on the topic of her uncaring mother - it's like an open wound that is starting to infect her dil aur dimaag!

Originally posted by: ASRaddictKKG

I wonder why no one sees that Baldev shouted at both Gunjan and Ranvi. What double standards?
I agree he's sometime selfish and definitely VERY stupid, but hypocrite? No.

The double standards that make it okay for him to manhandle Veera with his guy friends, put a patti on her mouth, and leave her in an isolated tabela while allowing him to shout at Ranvi and Gunjan because they were seen together at night. At least in the latter incident he would have known that Gunjan had a choice in the matter (nevermind that she was the one to call Ranvi there in the first place since Baldev didn't actually know that). The double standards that allow him to feel restless when Veera's feeling low (btw he never felt this restless about his own sister) to the extent that he calls the radio guy, stops on the roadside to pick her up, and even drives to the airport to inform her about her family's problems but cannot take the time out to have a heart-to-heart with his own sister about her feelings about her broken dream, or the bitterness that leads to her clearly galat actions. Either the writers are intentionally portraying this contrast so it can be brought up later or the focus on romantic fluff and romantic melodrama is leading to unintentional characterisation issues, esp in the case of Baldev and Gunjan. I don't know which it is but for the sake of the show I hope it was intentional or that someone now realises what they have done to the show and try to address the problems I just mentioned.

Originally posted by: samira1984

I think Baldev care her sister a lot😊 and Gunjan also care her brother no mater what she do with Ranveera ,Baldev never show his feeling like ranvijay but my Ballu😃 love her sister.

I just hope I can see their relationship bonding 😭 but right know everyone just excited about Veeba and Ranjan 😲 not ranveera or Gundev. please guys don't hate me😳 for that command but I want to watch Gundev relationship more😆

Originally posted by: ._Pari_.

When they were younger, I didn't like Baldev because he wasn't a very good brother at all to her but now that he's an adult, he definitely shows that he has concerns for her. I really enjoy watching Gundev scenes too. Post-leap, I actually prefer Gundev scenes over Ranveera.

I think not giving enough Baldev and Gunjan interactions and their perspective about each other is not just disappointing but also leading to confusion about what type of characterisation they are aiming for. Because from my interpretation of their scenes the concern and protectiveness flares up most often when her situation is challenging his idea of maryada while the default mode is a general indifference with occasional sentimental acknowledgments during times like bday and shaadi. :(

Originally posted by: moniloveasya

i live in india .
my home town is in rural area n my work place is urban area so i expriance both type life of india .
i saw ruaral n urban sociaty very clearly
jayda dur kyu jana my elder same like baldev though he never interfere in my life i can do what i want .even its his decision that i can study to outside my house n do job but when it come to perssonal life he clearly not like when i rome with my guys friend but he easily rome with his friends who r girls .
so its reflection of sociaty
bro bhale hume support kare but when sis rome with guy they clearly doesnot like that .
i can say that 80to90% bro doesnot like this .
this is hypocrite

Thanks for sharing your thoughts moniloveasya. That's what I'm trying to get at.

Originally posted by: ..Tamanna

Baldev's behavior towards RanJan is of what a Brother's would be(At least mine's) He even objected when she danced in the New year party.. It had mostly to do with his brotherly instincts(Or his thinking, like you would say) If he has double standards than pretty much all of the Village does. After all it's a Pind. I do agree he needs to take responsibilities but not of the type you're talking about, I feel.

Yep, I agree pindwaale in general have really skewed mentality because of the unquestioning patriarchal setup. Which is why it is an amazing feat that Ranvi's devotion to his sister managed to wipe out/negate her origins in their minds. It is also an amazing feat that Ratan manage to remain an independent self-made woman with dignity in such a pind setup (we all know how many obstacles she had to overcome to remain this way). And we need to see more examples on the show of similarly evolved thinking. And I think the Gunjan and Baldev relationship dynamic can be a useful vehicle for the writers to address such themes.

Originally posted by: ..Tamanna

Gunjan can make Pind people's head jhukao.. With her beauty.. What is she without that? Gunjan has stood up in front of Bansuri a few times but I wonder where that attitude was during all these years. Makes me think her turning Negative is a good thing for her.

Hmmm I don't know how to respond to this? Clearly Gunjan's attitude is dysfunctional - I was merely answering to the original statement that Baldev leaps to Gunjan's protection because he thinks she is helpless while Veera is educated and strong. I was just saying that Gunjan has also shown (agreed in a very weirdly skewed manner) she can confidently carry herself, at least with the pind waale.

Originally posted by: lizaries

That is the reason why I specifically mentioned post leap days , since my references are completely based on what is being shown now. I repeat, I am not a new viewer and disliked Baldev and his treatment towards Gunjan like many others. But at times kids mature when they grow big. I assume this happened in Baldev's case.

Gunjan made attempts to bond with him but she has always been happy with her brother's affection post leap. Its just that she does not return it. I am assuming in major part of their growing up phase, Baldev would have tried mending his attitude towards Gunjan. Since he did it to her when she was a kid, is it justified that Gunjan does the same to him now after being matured??😕

I agree kids grow up and become mature and I've also said before that I agree that Baldev did manage to evolve somewhat. But just like some kids grow up and become mature other kids emotional growth becomes stunted because of childhood experiences. Both Baldev and Gunjan had to contend with parents who displayed favouritism but there are other influencing factors at play here - the fact that Bansuri being a stay-at-home mom had more contact with both children than Balwant who frankly speaking would just waddle in, shout at Baldev, puchkaaro Gunjan, argue with Bansuri, then walk back out and leave her to go back to doing whatever bad job at parenting she was doing. By the way, it happened similarly with Veera as well. Ranvi was Veera's mom and made up for almost all of Ratan's hesitations and neglect.

And not only does Baldev get a comparatively pampered childhood with freedom of choice he also gets automatic male privilege (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_privilege) just because our society is the way it is.

Just because at some point Baldev learnt not to be a jerk to his sister does not mean that he now knows how to be caring towards his sister or that she trusts him, and loves him unconditionally. All that has happened is that she's put on a mask of making do with whatever little she is getting and pretending it is good enough. If she really thought it was good enough she wouldn't feel the need to leave the pind or earn her mother's love no matter what the cost.

Gunjan has not done anything bad to Baldev. She has reacted badly to Veera, which Baldev has chastised. And that too not because he is concerned that his sister is heading down a wrong path but rather only because he is feeling bad for Veera. Yet again Gunjan is not figuring into the equation for him. Unlike (and I hate to do this to Baldev since it pisses him off lol) Ranvi who would take the time to discuss with his sister her feelings and his perspective of what is the right vs wrong thing to do. Ranvi would have dealt with the situation not just because he feels bad for Person A or Person B but also because he thinks Veera needs to learn and rectify her behaviour. But yes Baldev =/= Ranvi and nor should he be - their circumstances are entirely different. Ranvi thinks like a parent while Baldev thinks like someone who has grown up in a family wher no one really truly "cares" enough about the other to do anything about it. Sabko sirf apni padi hai. What I would like from the show is for Baldev and Gunjan to realise that they have lost many, many years of having a genuine relationship - I would really want to see them grow into a unit.

Originally posted by: lizaries

Baldev is a hot headed guy and after his initial outbursts he has always cooled down in dealing with Gunjan. His conversation with Ranvi proves the same. Though his assumptions are wrong, he was still taking Gunjan's side when he was speaking to Ranvi. Both after the vanity van drama and after Ranvi agrees to the marriage.

Um, is allowing Gunjan to be married to a guy she clearly does not want to be married to called "taking her side"? It is not acceptable for anyone to be dhakeloed into a marriage no matter how much moral outrage and shame their actions cause anyone. He is perturbed by the marriage but guess what his first words are to Gunjan after the marriage gets decided: he says that he never thought in his life that he would have to call "that" Ranvi jeejaji - and it is all happening because of you Gunjan.

Wow, what a sympathetic non-self-centered reaction this is to a sister that is looking traumatized. She took a bad decision but that was her choice. This doesn't mean she should be stripped of all other decision-making powers in retaliation for her bad choice. Balwant tou galat kar hi raha hai, aur Bansuri so tou umeed chod hi do, but in these situations when a sister looks to someone who can stand up for her against her parents Gunjan will get nothing.

Originally posted by: lizaries

He is extremely protective of Gunjan and Veera and has never shown double standards in that matter. One of the reasons why I love his character.

I'll agree to disagree with you for all the reasons stated before in this thread :)

Originally posted by: lizaries

Where did Ranvi the brother disappear when Bansuri and Khurana's family were questioning Veera's character after the engagement fiasco??😲 Where is Ranvi the brother now?? He wants to save Gunjan and Balwant's reputation. But can't he see that his sister is of marriage age and a taint on his name would affect her future??😕 He does not even include her in an important decision in his life and hides the family's problems from her. Other than giving her one dialogue about Karan, when has Ranvi tried to pump some sense into her about him??
Would you call it hypocrisy when Ranvi forcefully catches hold of Gunjan's hand trying to hurt her, but jumps up to accuse Baldev even wrongly at times when it comes to Veera??😕 We wouldn't because it is his brotherly instincts. So why doesn't Baldev have a right to all this?? Is it because he does not behave like Gunjan's anokhi maa, but like any other normal brother??😕
Baldev has always treated Veera and Gunjan the same. He likes modern girls. I have never seen him questioning Gunjan or Veera on the choice of their clothes. He has been protective of both. He tried warning Ranvi about Karan. I know the time and place was not right. More than that, how can he interfere in somebody else's matters??

I fully disagree with Ranvi's agreement to marry Gunjan. I can write an essay on it. In fact I HAVE written an essay on it. Though the essay is not on his situation in particular, but on the entire trope/plot device in general: http://seriousaboutserials.wordpress.com/2013/04/22/ek-chutki-sindoor/

Ranvi was more than open to Veera's decision to propose to Karan because he knows that if he has the right to choose his life partner then so does his sister. It's because of Ranvi and Veera's upbringing that they have such progressive views ofcourse while Baldev and Gunjan have not been so lucky in life. Equally Ranvi tried to approach Veera several times post-break up but once he recognised that his sister does not need his consolation but instead needs time to think through the situation herself he backed off and allowed her to come to him in her own time. Again, this is because his characterisation has always been as someone who empathises with others while Baldev with his pampering mother and male privilege has been groomed to have a myopic self-centered view of the world. And hey I acknowledge that Ranvi had a blind spot - he never really empathised with his mother's reactions to Veera because he didn't understand the reason till now. And I even found Veera growing into a bit of a self-centered brat because even Ranvi has pampered her and allowed her to grown in a bubble.

In case it needs to be clarified (!!) Baldev is the least self-aware character among all 4 of our post-leap lead characters and that is why I have posted all this. Ranvi understands himself, Veera understands herself, Gunjan understands how messed up she is and why even though she spends every minute denying it and blaming others, but Baldev is ...clueless to say the least. I'm not saying it to "pick" on everyone's laadla or anything. Nor am I trying to put him down or portray others in a better light. I am saying it because I desperately want the show's writing caliber to improve - it's a call of concern out to The Powers That Be - I hope like heck they know what they are doing and they don't undo all the great work they did with the show pre-leap. I don't want our awesome show to condone the wrong messages either implicitly because they are too busy writing romance or explicitly because it is more convenient to work with plot devices and cliches.

Edited by parul2999 - 11 years ago

Oh wow..Thats one hell of a post..I loved reading it..Am not exactly in a position to respond though cos i fast forward half the scenes and watch only Baldev-Veera or Ranvi-Veera scenes post leap😆But yeah, while i do get what you are saying, i don think Baldev has been that receptive of Veera's progressive and independent ways either..Din Baldev try to shift the entire blame on Veera and defend Karan when they were caught hugging back then?😆 And he also unintentionally lets it slip that Veera should quit roaming around and learn to cook cos it'l help her post marriage😆 Its a different thing that Veera always gives it right back to him and also proves him wrong so he cant help but grudgingly admire that trait in her..I don think the difference in treatment is intentional on his part..Gunjan is not as strong headed as Veera probably cos of the difference in upbringing & then you have Bansuri brainwashing them every once in a while, so it just makes things worse😆 For the record, i don think Baldev believes that Veera intentionally ruined Gunjan's life..But his irrational hatred for Ranvi probably made him buy the story and he was just glad that his sister hated him too😆 He is not perfect and has his flaws but i don think he is a hypocrite..Or i might be wrong cos i don watch half the scenes😕😆

baldev is not hypocrite he is just a normal human haan normal wo kabhi kabhi hi rehta hai 😆

Originally posted by: rogerrocks

Oh wow..Thats one hell of a post..I loved reading it..Am not exactly in a position to respond though cos i fast forward half the scenes and watch only Baldev-Veera or Ranvi-Veera scenes post leap😆But yeah, while i do get what you are saying, i don think Baldev has been that receptive of Veera's progressive and independent ways either..Din Baldev try to shift the entire blame on Veera and defend Karan when they were caught hugging back then?😆 And he also unintentionally lets it slip that Veera should quit roaming around and learn to cook cos it'l help her post marriage😆 Its a different thing that Veera always gives it right back to him and also proves him wrong so he cant help but grudgingly admire that trait in her..I don think the difference in treatment is intentional on his part..Gunjan is not as strong headed as Veera probably cos of the difference in upbringing & then you have Bansuri brainwashing them every once in a while, so it just makes things worse😆 For the record, i don think Baldev believes that Veera intentionally ruined Gunjan's life..But his irrational hatred for Ranvi probably made him buy the story and he was just glad that his sister hated him too😆 He is not perfect and has his flaws but i don think he is a hypocrite..Or i might be wrong cos i don watch half the scenes😕😆

LOL I had forgotten about the time he tried to blame the hug entirely on Veera.

Yes, I think I mentioned in the reply just before (or the one before that) ke Baldev operates on two wavelengths: pind!Baldev and pyarelal!Baldev. In his interactions with Veera he does say and do regressive things but the fact is that he knows she completely disagrees with his ideology and yet finds her attractive because of it. And also he acts in manners that he would (and does) take offense at when it is someone else and his sister in the equation rather than him and Veera or him and other shehr ki ladkiyaan. He's also seen either judging Gunjan's actions or trying to impose control over them but never reflecting on his own motivations or actions. For lack of a more concise term I've called it his hypocrisy.

I'm with you on the rest of what you say.

Originally posted by: moniloveasya

frist take a bow for this post
i agree with ur every point
i must say gundev relation is more realistic than ranveera.
its our reflection of our sociaty
bhai kisi ki bhi bahan ke sath ghum sakte hai but bahan ko kisi ke sath badarsat nahi kar sakte .
i love to see gundev relationship more than ranveera hope cvs so that

ya bt i lost all hope abt Gundev relationshp 😔

Originally posted by: samira1984

I think Baldev care her sister a lot😊 and Gunjan also care her brother no mater what she do with Ranveera ,Baldev never show his feeling like ranvijay but my Ballu😃love her sister.

I just hope I can see their relationship bonding😭butright know everyone just excited about Veeba and Ranjan😲not ranveera or Gundev. please guys don't hate me😳for that command but I want to watch Gundev relationship more😆

samira i'm with u i lov gundev alot 🤗

Hi, I had read your post when you first wrote it and i was quite impressed with some of the things you said and how you had an answer for everyone.. At first, post-leap I really enjoyed Gunjan and Baldev's interaction. I think it was shown that both really did care about each other. Not only Baldev but Gunjan too. She did use a lot of blackmail but sometimes this blackmail was for his own good. Like when she blackmailed him to eat his food when Baldev hadn't eaten anything.