Why mix money and relationships? - Page 5

Originally posted by: zeal11

Completely agree... Poor sumo what should that girl do Yaar " and really Shravan was so despo to marry her

Hi folks. 😛

I will slowly but surely reply to all your beautiful comments.

But before that I want to say it is an absolute pleasure to read such deep thoughts. 👏

I want to make some things clear:

1. I am ALL for spitting wedding expenses. Husband and wife to be should be part of a team. My marriage and my sister's marriage happened with splitting of wedding expenses.
2. Feminism - this will be a huge debate I guess 😆 . The meaning of my statement was that:
Men and women have Equal rights. Equal responsibilities. But calling two human beings equal is like nullifying their personality. I don't know the text book definition!

3. The real person Suman was saying no to was Ramnath. Didn't he unilaterally declare he would bear all expenses of the wedding without even discussing with Naanu? How can Suman accept such a thing when her own husband-to-be had called her a gold digger and a user?

4. I am an official man hater and love to hate Shravan. Suman might forget the things he said, but I won't. 😆

5. Shraman have a LONG way to go to be called a team. Until then we cannot expect things like teamwork, understanding, adult discussions between them.

Originally posted by: ...MonaCo...

Here you go...

******

So I have a few questions today...

Just based on WU...

Self respect kya hai? I quickly googled, and found this meaning:

pride and confidence in oneself; a feeling that one is behaving with honor and dignity.

Does Sumo really have self respect? Does she respect herself enough? Except when in PCT, and cooking... no she does not. She has , with the Tiwaris in particular, never questioned, or stood up for herself, no matter what. Preeti who suddenly is an adarsh bahu never even made a cup of her lemon detox water every morning, it was Suman making it for her. Suman is blamed left right and center by everyone, and it hurts her, but she does not do anything about it ever. She soaks it all in.

Does she behave with honor and dignity? Always? May be yes, she does. But as I think Anjali pointed out earlier, she couldn't flex a bit for the wedding ring but then gladly took Adi's help during the lehnga thing. I know she didn't know at the time, but that single incident is the biggest inconsistency in her character in my mind - when she wears that lehnga, without giving Adi a piece of her mind and the money. Jo Shravan ko pasand wo thik... so then Shravan also said, dont wear that lehnga because it is against your self respect, the color doesn't suit you... right?

Self respect means proper respect for yourself as a human being. Suman barely respects herself (as seen in her acceptance of both Adi and Shravan). She is quick to trust, quick to forgive, and those are good traits, but she doesn't really respect herself enough to make decisions for herself where it matters most.

In fact, most of Sumo's Self Respect Jaap as we love to call it stems from her streak to be starkingly independent. She does not want help. I do not necessarily equate independence with self respect, though I know from personal experience it easy to confuse the two.

She does not want help , period. Until she is pushed to. If she wants help she clearly wants to be told that it was given to her due to her ability, and not as help. This is because, she has forever been made to realize of how she has been provided for by her Mami who had to make several personal sacrifices for her. So, she has this thing in her, I do not want anyone's help, I am self sufficient.

Her work, her PCT is her entrepreneurial venture. She runs it. So, she does not have to adjust there, like she would have to if this was a job. That means, again, she is in an all reigns mode, she can give people orders, and call the shots. It boosts her self image, when she is in PCT when she can feel important (sometimes in ways that are not required... like for example the daal ka tadka... I get it that she has her own touch, but you know she is seeking these assurances from others... because she has low self esteem). PCT is like an esteem booster for her. She has always had esteem issues (as a kid she did not want to be seen with a nerd), and this has continued now.

With ShraMan I hope, she also overcomes her demons and grows to love herself for what she is and truly grows some self respect.

I also hope that while she learns to stand up for herself (where it is truly required, like against Ramnath), she also learns that in love, it is okay to share yourself a little, let go and take help. That it is okay to tread the path of compromise, and that it does not have to be my way or the highway. Today, she did make a very valid offer though - with the reception idea. I give it to her for that. This would have been such a happy compromise. But, unfortunately Shravan's stubbornness took over.

Eventually Suman needs to learn that having self respect means having a regard for one's position but also being able to respect that of others. And Shravan needs to see this aspect of her nature. Both Shravan and Sumo do things to hurt each other to protect themselves. BOTH. Shravan perhaps in more disgusting ways than Sumo but both do it. They need to grow together in this... and they will.

******

What a fabulous post !

Enjoyed reading it. It describes the journey they both need to have to grow together in their marriage. I have a feeling Suman will accept Shravans help when she feels it comes with the right intent.

Originally posted by: simran_singh_24

Interesting post GD.

IMO, Sumo, like rest of middle-class India needs to rethink their beliefs about money.
Giving is in no way better than receiving.

I just wish ShraMan acted like two of my close friends did while arranging their marriage.
They are both work-mates and the guy like Shrav is rich and his family's standards are way over the best the gal's family can offer.Tehy knew this from day one and both painstakingly saved for threee years before they told their families of their decision to get married.They spent from their savings and every one was happy. Being better employed, I think, the guy contributed more to the fund.
they just focused on being together and bringing their families on-board.

Our dear Sumo, unilaterally decides abt their wedding , no wonder Shrav did what he did. In future, will Sumo refuse to accept diamonds & emeralds from her rich husband if he wants to shower her with gifts?
Sumo has to form a healthy relationship with money before she can form a healthy relationship with her husband who has tons of it. It's gonna be a thorn with Shrav interpenetrating her actions as an act of defiance fueled by "self-respect".

Ah senorita 😉

Sigh. Shraman will keep us wishing till the end I think.
Well Suman's entire family does not share a healthy relationship with money. They think spending on marriages is the way to go!

However in this situation I think Suman had every right to say no to the money that Shravan offered.

She does not believe it was offered with the right intent. The father threatens her(almost physically!) and just like that offers to pay for the entire wedding. Ramu calls her a dirty schemer who had somehow hoodwinked Shravan. And the son does not help things along either. He calls her a user and gold digger. So she has every right to refuse their help for her own wedding.

Originally posted by: A.Hajnal

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2">But don't you think that on the social ground, women are equals to men? By law, we are. A crime is a crime not matter if the criminal is a woman or a man, right? A vote is a vote no matter if the voter is a woman or a man. Then how come anyone refuses that woman aren't equal to the man on socially and culturally? How can any of refuse the equality on the social and cultural ground?</font>

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2">If woman ourselves don't think of us as man's equals socially and culturally, then we are no batter than the MCPs. That kind of thought isn't going to die if we don't exercise our equality on the social andcultural ground...</font>

Please read my reply carefully. I am very clear that I am not talking about men/women. My entire point is that each person be it a man, woman or child is unique. How can we compare that which is unique. I am talking individuality and not feminism or male chauvenism.

Originally posted by: A.Hajnal

I don't think you got my point if you ask me if I would have like to pay 100% in any senario. I do NOT believe in men's this advantage. I would Never pay 100% even if I am a freaking millionaire, in the same way I would have not let him pay 100% if he was a a freaking millionaire.

😛 What I meant was 100% for one function on which you have control over. The other function(reception), the other party is paying na! So sum total would be whatever percentage.

But If you are asking me then my answer is; I would like to believe that I, like an adult, can have a conversation over the whole matter with the one who I would be getting married to. If I am paying for my marriage and not involving my family at all in this marriage-expense thing, he wpuld have done the same. Why do families have to do this and that for us? He would have a job, so he better pay half of it as I would be, and not my or his family!

Well Ramnath made it clear he would be the one performing the wedding. And no in Shravan's current state of mind nobody can have an adult discussion with him. Yes he has sugary sweet with her. But wouldn't she be wary of him after his previous explosions?

Here is how I see that she sees it:
If she says no, she would only suffer till marriage. People will gradually forget the wedding ceremony in a year or two.
But if she accepts the help, she would forever be branded as a user and it would difficult to come back from that.

And what does she explain about why she is saying no? That I don't like your fathers high handed attitude. I don't like your attitude? Is he in a state of mind to understand her concerns? She does not believe he is on her side.

So, the budget can be determined from the fact how much the both parties want to spend. If the first parties has the budget of 10 Lack then the next one can add 10 Lack, even if she/he had 100 lacks. If one of them wants a simple wedding and the other one a grand one, they both can compromise and choose the midway... There is no need for one to force the next one accept what she/he wants because a compromise can always be found...

I am not saying Shravan is the right one here, and Suman all wrong. It's about the way she decided for both of them without giving any importance to his wishes even though it's his marriage too. I am pointing out that she wasn't ready to compromise even a lil. She said 'NO' on his face without making him understand where she was coming from. I believe if she would have had a conversation with him on this, I am sure they would have reached a conclusion where Shravan would have made the marriage less grand or would have let her do what she wanted to. The problem wasn't as big as they made it to be...

After her shocks and numbness over the past month or so with the mind numbing PreeKar wedding, she could be having an off day. Yes a flat out no to his face was not exactly tactful. But it was on her mind and she wanted to get it out. She is not perfect but she is allowed this one decision in her favor solely due to Ramnath threatening her.

She is the loser in any which way in this hate triangle. This marriage itself is unfair to her although she is optimistic. But what is wrong with starting on a clean state where she makes sure she doesn't own anybody(read Ramnath) any ehsaan?

That is the thing what I am trying to say! The budget could be have been in control if she would talked with him about it before and would have let Shravan pay the half. If her budget was 10 lacks, and she would have let Shravan add his half, it won't be 10 lack anymore. It would have been 20 lack. Which I believe will be enough to adjusts Malhotra demands. If not the grand 40-45 lack wali shaadi than at least the medium 20 lack wali shaadi would have been done with that budget. I am sure Ramnath or Shravan didn't want to invite every single person they have ever met in Shraman marriage. I mean, in Preeti-pushkar shaadi they invited less people than they would have invited in Shraman marriage.

@Red:- Excuse me? Shravan is getting married too, then how can anyone say that she is'accepting' something from him if pays for his own marriage? I mean, what? That does no make any sense! If he is trying to pay for his marriage as she is paying for hers, then how come she is 'accepting' something from him? 😕 How can only she have the self-respect to pay for her marriage but he can't? 😲

Read the sentence earlier to the red one. Letting Shravan pay more than half the expenses would not be acceptable to her under the circumstances. Letting him pay say 70% of expenses would mean 'accepting' something from him right? When he calls her a gold digger everything he does about money comes into question. Sharing expenses in a wedding like this is dicey. Every step is going to be a struggle and she wanted to keep things simple.

If you ask me, I see it as a deprivation and limitation if a man's would-be insists that she is going to pay for her marriage but won't not letting him pay for his. Yeh toh nainsafi hai!

Was he being fair when he called her names and humiliated her? Yes she was cold and did not return his love. For that he blasted her in front of all her employees. He told her nobody wants her. Not even her family. And he has made it clear that he is a bystander in his own wedding. He is marrying for the sake of his family. NOT for her. Whereas she is the one who has truly invested herself in the marriage. He has shown no interest in her whatsoever except in the actual wedding. Where he wants to do some dhikaawa for the sake of his family. A real compromise would have been Shravan showing some emotional investment in the actual marriage. A promise to keep her happy and satisfied. When only humiliation and taunts are coming from his end, she thinks she is the only participant in the marriage right now. Which is true. Give the girl what she needs to actually get her to bend. Just being polite does not cut it.

Maybe that is the main point why we both have such different thoughts? We both belong to different cultures and have different BGs. I can tell you a lil about mine. I am a product of a combo of two different culture + have been living in Italy for +10 years.

My father's side (Urdu speaking) Shaadi is on girl's side and walima/reception is on boy's. Both the sides control the invites as if in Shaadi there were 100 from the boy's side then in the walima the girl side has to invite only 100 people and vice versa. That way the both side pay attention to not over-do things as the very next day they are going pay for it. LOL Mehendi+sangeet, if they are doing is together then they divide the cost.

My mother's side (Brahwi) All the expense is on the boy's side while the responsibilities are on the girl's side. They made a list of things that they need and the boy side pays for all the expense while the girl's side manages all the bhag-dhoorh.

Italy:- The girl and the boy pay for their own marriage. They can determine the budget and then divide it in half. Simple...

I don't see any culture as a limitation nor I believe in making sacrifices to accommodate it as culture is something made by and for people, not the other way around. And culture is not a firm thing, as you said, it keeps changing, modifying and getting better because it changes with us, the people.

Wow! Thanks for sharing dear. Really nice to hear about your family. I only mentioned kanyadaan because Naanu is intent on it and he is traditional about these aspects. Agree that culture is fluid and it changes along with us. Me and my husband wanted to get married on motorbikes and not take bath for three days to make the occasion memorable. I am ALL for sharing expenses of a wedding. My own wedding expenses were shared. Top to bottom. But this wedding is different. When the groom's family does not like the girl, sharing becomes a huge mess. It is better if the management of events be kept separate.

Oh, how I wish there was no need for it. How I wish that wasn't an issue for humans. Oh, how I wish...I believe the world would have been a better place and there would have no issues, there would have not you poor-you rich thing going on...But alas, money is such a big, 'important' and essential part of our lives that no matter how much one wants to avoid it, make it stay away, in a way or other, it comes in and ruins things if one can't deal with it like an adult.

There are things which are greater than money. Relationships and respect for other humans. Lalaji says in one of the episodes so amazingly 'Keep taunting others and in the end there will be nobody around to listen to your taunts'.

I agree, but what about her? Doesn't she has to accept him for who he is? He is a family man. No matter the selfish and self-centered family of his doesn't deserve his worshiping, he does puts them above and before himself. Shravan, in the end, is the gentle giant that can be win over only if she shows him she cares for him and for the people who cares for. If no self-respect is the deal breaker for Suman, for Shravan that is the deal breaker.

Yes if he is what he is by himself she can accept him. But if his father verbally abuses her she will not and should not take it lightly. If Shravan humiliates her for being herself she cannot accept it.

He, in the end, seeks attention and security like a child, when she is giving him her attention, making him feel secure, he is happy and dandy with everything she does and is, the sec she stops giving him bhao, he starts throwing tantrums and act stupid. Between them, he is the one who can ignore the 'flaws' if he is being given what he wants, she is more firm on having control over things, he gives that control away if he feels secure and taken care of...

The thing is that one can't ask for a compromise if one doesn't think one is obligated to the same courtesy. That is the thing between them. If Suman can't compromise her self-respect, he can't compromise with her attention and care. They both need to know their deal breakers and do have to impose, control and limit the other one.

Yes they seemed to have reached an impasse. I was against this marriage at this juncture. It is no good for either of them. If we as viewers are so divided about their marriage and roles in it, imagine the kind of fights they would be having when they are really married! It makes me shiver to think about it.

I know you didn't. She herself it does and then contradicts her within the second breath...

As @Monaco has said in her post and me in mine, there is a difference between being independent, self-respect and being a feminist. Maybe confuse it with one and other because, at the end of the day, all three of them are so essential for us.

Completely agree with Monaco. They have a lot of growing up to do. Thanks for this lovely discussion. Enjoyed it. 😊

Originally posted by: nith125

Sheesh (I am taking the liberty of calling you by name) , I don't understand equality. Isn't it absurd that in the name of equality we compare apples to oranges and I am not talking with respect to men/women. I think no one can ever be equal to anyone else, for that matter, no one can be better or worse than anyone else. I know I am going off on a tangent here but couldn't help commenting 😉

🤗

Originally posted by: sanfan

What a fantastic analysis sanfan(sorry don't know your name yet).

Regarding sharing wedding costs. Been there done that. My dad was the most dissatisfied person of the entire wedding. He had problems with every aspect of the wedding and it led to unnecessary fights. I can write pages about the comedy that ensued. There was no cost saving for him whatsoever!

I have mentioned in my reply above to Simran the reasons why I think Suman has every right to refuse help. She is not a mahaan devi. But she is entitled to her peace of mind. Every person is.

Suman doesn't let class differences or designer clothes bother her much. But she is sensitive to being called all sorts of names by the father-son duo.

Originally posted by: vibg

Self respect is a bad word when the man in questionis a good looking hero 😆

Love your post and 100% agree 👏

😆 Yes true. Thanks!