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MagadhSundari

@MagadhSundari

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 14 years ago

#21

Originally posted by: _Vrish_
Just wondering - who does their laundry - Jaya & Vijaya? Maybe they can observe & discuss amongst themselves the activities of Sishupal & Dantavatra while the washing machine is on while Lakshmi-Narayan dwell on Rukmini 😆🤣

Washing machine? Can't they just rinse the clothes in the Ksheer Saagar 😆

Seriously though awesomely comedic as his presentation was, Vik's explanation was indeed what I've seen used in those texts which allow for this simultaneous-appearance-of-God-on-heaven-and-earth system. The Brahmavaivart Puraan for example puts Radha and Krishna on earth even as they reflect on and explain their leelas in Golok, which itself is a reflection of Vaikunth where they reside as Lakshmi and Vishnu - just that in one they demonstrate bliss for those who are situated in daasya bhaav and in the other they depict the highest state that can be sought by those who subscribe to maadhurya. In other words, just as Vik said, God need not be limited to one lok or one heavenly realm (or one electronic device). Because (S)He manifests for the sake of devotees, the manifestations can occur in as many locations with as little a time gap as devotees please. That explanation is steeped in bhakti theory and may not seem sound in terms of practicality, but neither does the idea that when God decided he was needed in Ayodhya/Mathura/etc., He left his heavenly position and powers behind and put the care-taking of the rest of the world on hold. There had to be some double duty going on.

Then again, there is the point about Valmiki specifically mentioning that the whole Durvasa-Kaal episode at the end of Uttar Kand occured because it was time to "go back", so they had to at least kinda sorta not be in Vaikunth in order to be so terribly missed.

For me, Kiran's explanation was perfectly logical and convincing 👏 Maybe it's just that I too have a thing for out-of-the-box trains of thought and interpretation 😛 It could very well by a visual representation of a telepathic convo between the two, which looks way cooler when it involves the familiar larger than life visuals than it would with cheesy voiceovers every time Rukmini and Krishna exchanged thoughts nonverbally. They may or may not actually be "up there" but given that it's home territory for them and they have yet to meet "down here", it makes sense for them to picture it as the site of their pre-unions whenever they have to discuss what's next on their agenda. Yayyy Kiran 👏

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 14 years ago

#22

Lola

Vik Rocks is female - check her profile

I imagine the ksheer sagar as something like their private swimming pool, even if they never even take a dip. So I'm imagining no laundry there 😆

On the main topic, I once posted this question in the first Doubts & Discussions on the Ramayan thread, where the question of what an avatar is was raised. I particularly cited Kurma avatar, where Vishnu was most of the time himself, then he became Kurma to support the mountain, then he married Lakshmi, then he became Mohini to trick the asuras. The question was raised in the context of Vishnu appearing b4 Sita just b4 she was about to give birth.

I understand these explanations, but typically, most people assume that since the avatars were Vishnu, whenever they were there on earth, he was not there in Vaikuntha. In the puranas, there doesn't seem to be any mention of their presense in Vaikuntha @ the times Rama and Krishna were busy on earth. So on TV, when it's shown that way, it ends up giving the impression that Vishnu was indeed separate from the avatars, and seemingly contradicts the belief that the avatars were none other than Vishnu himself.

But I think it's perfectly possible that the explanations that you & Kiran have provided are correct. Only that if that's the case, shouldn't it be more widely explained as such in ancient scriptures, rather than just one source, or simply shown on TV?

Edited by _Vrish_ - 14 years ago

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MagadhSundari

@MagadhSundari

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 14 years ago

#23

Originally posted by: _Vrish_
Lola

Vik Rocks is female - check her profile

oopsies, thanks for pointing that out... sorry Vik!

I imagine the ksheer sagar as something like their private swimming pool, even if they never even take a dip. So I'm imagining no laundry there 😆

good point 😛😆

On the main topic, I once posted this question in the first Doubts & Discussions on the Ramayan thread, where the question of what an avatar is was raised. I particularly cited Kurma avatar, where Vishnu was most of the time himself, then he became Kurma to support the mountain, then he married Lakshmi, then he became Mohini to trick the asuras. The question was raised in the context of Vishnu appearing b4 Sita just b4 she was about to give birth.

I understand these explanations, but typically, most people assume that since the avatars were Vishnu, whenever they were there on earth, he was not there in Vaikuntha. In the puranas, there doesn't seem to be any mention of their presense in Vaikuntha @ the times Rama and Krishna were busy on earth. So on TV, when it's shown that way, it ends up giving the impression that Vishnu was indeed separate from the avatars, and seemingly contradicts the belief that the avatars were none other than Vishnu himself.

Oh yeah... that scene! It does indeed make sense to discuss it in the same vein as this DBSK scene because in both, the "source God" is referring to the incarnation as a totally different person. If I remember correctly, in that ASR scene Vishnu never refers to Sita as Lakshmi, and in this one Lakshmi refers to Rukmini in third person rather than saying "why are you doing this to me". That is the one thing that throws us off and makes it hard to relate it to any logical explanation, had they written the scenes so that we were clear that both the avtaars and "source Gods" (I heart my new word!) knew that they were one and the same, it would be easier to digest.

But I think it's perfectly possible that the explanations that you & Kiran have provided are correct. Only that if that's the case, shouldn't it be more widely explained as such in ancient scriptures, rather than just one source, or simply shown on TV?
I really wish they did, it would make them even more fun to read if we had them explaining their own actions as they execute them or soon after by writing in such telepathic convos... there are a lot of things the shows tell us that I wish the scriptures backed up, like ASR having Ramji teach us that husbands must give as much importance to serving their wives as do the wives themselves... wouldn't it be awesome to have that on paper 😍😆
😆

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..kiran..

@..kiran..

Explorer

Posted: 14 years ago

#24

I was kinda playing around with my theories 😳 but it's flattering that Lola thinks my argument was convincing 😃 Yayy you too!

That said, I do agree with Vrish too. The TV depiction does give the wrong impression, and as I said earlier, the producers might have actually intended that Vishnuji and Lakshmiji to be physically at Vaikuntha, esp seeing that they have been distorting other parts of the story too 😕

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 14 years ago

#25

One thing about the avatar relationships - Vishnu & Lakshmi have a daughter Rati, who is married to Kama, the god of love. When Shiva incinerated Kama for trying to get him interested in Parvati, Kama got reborn as Pradhyumna to Rukmini, thereby making him not the SIL, but the son, of Lakshmi's avatar.

Rati on the other hand took the form of a maiden named Mayawati, and went looking for him, until she discovered Pradhyumna w/ Shambara. She discovered who he was, told him the story of his birth, Pradhyumna kills Shambara and returns w/ Mayawati to Krishna & Rukmini.

But Mayavati, despite being an avatar of Lakshmi-ji's daughter, is now Lakshmi-ji's avatar's bahu, while Pradhyumna, despite being not so much an avatar but Kama himself reborn, is now Lakshmi-ji's avatar's own son, rather than SIL. So, if Lakshmi's avatar has to marry Vishnu's, then why doesn't other relatives of Vishnu have to have the same relationship to him?

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Chandra

@Roark

Rocker

Posted: 14 years ago

#26

Originally posted by: _Vrish_
Okay, new promo for this week shows Sunanda delivering a letter to Krishna, where he reads that Rukmini wants him but Rukmi has arranged her marriage to Sishupala. Rukmini writes that she'll take Agni samadhi before this happens.

Krishna reads the message

WOWIE - something finally to look forward to

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ghotalaz

@ghotalaz

Dazzler

Posted: 14 years ago

#27

Originally posted by: _Vrish_
One thing about the avatar relationships - Vishnu & Lakshmi have a daughter Rati

I've tried searching info about Lord Vishnu but I never found info on who was Vishnu & Lakshmi's child😳 I always knew Rati as Kamdev's wife only. So this piece of info you gave out is really shocking for me😲 Thanks😊

Btw on the mytho masti forum, is there a thread particularly dedicated to Lord Vishnu. If yes, plz provide the link. I didn't see such a link I love reading about Lord Vishnu😳

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 14 years ago

#28

Lola is the viewbie of that forum - maybe she can answer you better!!!

Incidentally, I read about Rati being the daughter of Vishnu/Lakshmi in a book that was all about Goddesses of all mythologies - Greek, Roman, Norse and Hindu. Rati was one of the goddesses that they dwelt on. I never read about it elsewhere, so it is possible that it may be inadequately sourced.

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varaali

@varaali

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 14 years ago

#29

In Tamilian mythology, Valli- consort of Lord Muruga/Subrahmanya - is supposed to be a daughter of Lakshmi. Obviously Goddesses don't give birth the way mortals do; So Valli being daughter means she was an amsa , a part of lakshmi incarnating on Earth. It is not unusual to find description of Murugan, in Tamil folklore, as son- in - law of Vishnu.

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Chandra

@Roark

Rocker

Posted: 14 years ago

#30

Originally posted by: vik rocks
I've tried searching info about Lord Vishnu but I never found info on who was Vishnu & Lakshmi's child😳 I always knew Rati as Kamdev's wife only. So this piece of info you gave out is really shocking for me😲 Thanks😊

Btw on the mytho masti forum, is there a thread particularly dedicated to Lord Vishnu. If yes, plz provide the link. I didn't see such a link I love reading about Lord Vishnu😳

God, I dint know about this either. I always thought or should I say, read that Rati was Prajapati Daksha's daughter. Making her actually Shiva's SIL.The only thing I know when Kama was cursed by Shiva and Rati pleaded with him, Kama was reborn as Pradyumna the son of Krishna and Rukmini. His wife was Rati re-born. But it is said that Rati manifested herself in various forms as mother, friend, lover and persuaded him to return back.

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