Middle Class values... - Page 2

1. Originally posted by: Buffie

   Thanks folks for the replies 😃 Yea, its nice to be back
   
   No,I wasn't referring to the Kekta soaps,as a matter of fact I've never watched a K soap (except maybe for the odd three or four episodes of certain K soaps)...
   
   I was referring to the celebrities priding themselves on being "middle class"...People say Ash is a "middle class girl with middle class values"...Recently, at some award function, the lovely Deepika Padukone too said something on the lines that she is a "simple middle class girl"...Now I don't understand what is "simple" about Deeps, she is a superstar and a celebrity and she should take pride about that...And if her recent outings with hi-profile men as Ranbir, Yuvraj Singh etc is any indication, she's having a laugh...Nothing wrong about that, but what I fail to grasp is the "middle class" tag she clings on to...Its almost as though the tag acts as a shield, sumthing to hide behind....
   
   Ash is again one of the biggest celebrities of India, and arguably the most sought after and renown female face of India even internationally...She's loaded, hobnobs with the creme de la creme and certainly belongs to the upper echelons of the society post nuptials...
   
   My question is, why do they claim to be "middle class" even when they so clearly have left the recesses of middle class society long since...Does being "middle class" offer the moral highground, does being middle class automatically connote that one has "values, respect" etc etc ...Does being middle class make these ppl any better than say someone who was a celebrity kid and was born with the proverbial silver spoon in the mouth? You need to think what would sustain values.. The poor is trying to make both ends meet so they are going to use any means.. the rich have too much of money to throw around....so they dont need to pay attention to it also they dont have much at stake... so the only people who have a good chance of following and retaining values is the middle class by and large.. there are exceptions everywhere....but middle class generally is responsible for value retention in society.....
   
   @ LT....True, modern Indian middle class is educated, pragmatic, techno-savvy...But uninhibited??..I don't think so..There is still alot of diffidence,alot of holding back...Most middle class girls are still fettered by the shackles of societal perception and certain amount of parental pressure..u can call them shackles or abiding by the tradition and values..😊.Admittedly, there is much more liberty in matters of attire and are increasingly left to their own devices by the family, but total freedom is still a dream that may perhaps be realized only in the distant future 😊

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

You need to think what would sustain values.. The poor is trying to make both ends meet so they are going to use any means.. the rich have too much of money to throw around....so they dont need to pay attention to it also they dont have much at stake... so the only people who have a good chance of following and retaining values is the middle class by and large.. there are exceptions everywhere....but middle class generally is responsible for value retention in society.....

You are right in saying the middles class is better suited to sustain values but in recent years, education, equal opportunities, internet etc have put all classes on level plain field so to speak. Therefore todays middle class is different from the older bourgeoisie, which was tolerant and structured in following values since they lived in middle class financialy and culturerarly. Todays middle class can own stock in Yahoo or Google and still maintain a middle class lifestyle.

I think in todays age , it is the lifestyle choice one makes not how much money they make defines which class they belong to. Celebs live their lives under microscope which may seem bizzare some times as compared to nomal lifestyle most live and hence need to cling to tags to appear like most ie middle class... jmho

Originally posted by: lighthouse

You are right in saying the middles class is better suited to sustain values but in recent years, education, equal opportunities, internet etc have put all classes on level plain field so to speak. Therefore todays middle class is different from the older bourgeoisie, which was tolerant and structured in following values since they lived in middle class financialy and culturerarly. Todays middle class can own stock in Yahoo or Google and still maintain a middle class lifestyle.

I think in todays age , it is the lifestyle choice one makes not how much money they make defines which class they belong to. Celebs live their lives under microscope which may seem bizzare some times as compared to nomal lifestyle most live and hence need to cling to tags to appear like most ie middle class... jmho

You are right to an extent but I dont think that the change would be big enough to wipe out the core elements. Most middle class have had to break their value system to make it big.. but today it may not be so...An ash could say it to the world in Lettermans show that she lives with her parents..without being bashful about it... many surely would be embarrassed.... that reminds me of the mena suvari's character in American beauty...and her interaction with kevin spacey in the end of the movie - people somehow stop somewhere and the things that stop them is some conception of goodness.. this is ingrained in the middle class..and which is what pulls them back even when they are on path of vices...this is difficult if you are born rich since everybody at some point realizes the futility of moral bindings...which is why though morality can persist in some rich people's lives... others can just tip over all these values corroborating its weakness...without anything convincing them otherwise.....😊

Whew... I thought I am convinced and now, may be i am confused...😆

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

1. You need to think what would sustain values.. The poor is trying to make both ends meet so they are going to use any means.. the rich have too much of money to throw around....so they dont need to pay attention to it also they dont have much at stake... so the only people who have a good chance of following and retaining values is the middle class by and large.. there are exceptions everywhere....but middle class generally is responsible for value retention in society.....
   
   

I agree with you, sir. you said it nicely.

Yes, middle class kids now participating in reality shows, parents encougraging girls to performing in stage programmes, filims etc. But still middle class people retaining the values, that do not seen in high class or lower class.

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

You are right to an extent but I dont think that the change would be big enough to wipe out the core elements. Most middle class have had to break their value system to make it big.. but today it may not be so...An ash could say it to the world in Lettermans show that she lives with her parents..without being bashful about it... many surely would be embarrassed....

qwerty, she may be living with her parents but she was in relationships even during then...with salman and then with vivek obroi. she dumped vivek for abhi later....how middle class is that yaar???

i think the point LH was trying to make there was that these celebrities claim to be having middle class values to please that large section of society that might fall for the pretense and foolishly think that may be a common thread still binds them to their fav star.

just living with ur parents but scr**ing around at the same time is not middle class values for sure but that is what some of the middle class gals are actually doing now a days. now, i'm not judging them at all.......all i'm saying is why aish needs to prove she has her middle class values intact on an american show??? what was the need there??? does she mean all the girls who live in another city or in a hostel due to their work or whatever reason do not have middle class values??? others may be living on their own but still guarding their "honor" and that would still be an example of keeping one's middle class values intact.😊

that reminds me of the mena suvari's character in American beauty...and her interaction with kevin spacey in the end of the movie - people somehow stop somewhere and the things that stop them is some conception of goodness.. this is ingrained in the middle class..and which is what pulls them back even when they are on path of vices...

totally with u on this point. this is so true...not going the whole nine yards even if the temptation is there and is way too strong. some thing somewhere holds u back no matter how bad u wanna just act on ur urges at times....that surely havs something to do with the way u r brought up😊.

this is difficult if you are born rich since everybody at some point realizes the futility of moral bindings...which is why though morality can persist in some rich people's lives... others can just tip over all these values corroborating its weakness...without anything convincing them otherwise.....😊

Whew... I thought I am convinced and now, may be i am confused...😆

well said. some of the quotes i posted above also point to the same delimma. even i am confused regarding what exactly are values. i mean one cld be sati savitri character-wise but cld be a real nasty person and then someone else cld be promiscous but a nice person over all....which attribute of one's morality is more important when compared to others.....ufffff....now i am confused too😆

Originally posted by: Gauri_3

You are right Gauri about my point there.. But I don't consider Ash's romances immoral . I mean she was pushing 30 and everyone in that age group has a right to have a partner and those who aren't in any relationship are mostly that way because they can't (for whatever reasons may be, too picky, not attractive enuf or too attractive) not because they want to remain virginal. She was lucky to get away from Salman when she did. I don't blame her for choosing Abhi over Vivek though.😉

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

You are right to an extent but I dont think that the change would be big enough to wipe out the core elements. Most middle class have had to break their value system to make it big.. but today it may not be so...An ash could say it to the world in Lettermans show that she lives with her parents..without being bashful about it... many surely would be embarrassed.... that reminds me of the mena suvari's character in American beauty...and her interaction with kevin spacey in the end of the movie - people somehow stop somewhere and the things that stop them is some conception of goodness.. this is ingrained in the middle class..and which is what pulls them back even when they are on path of vices...this is difficult if you are born rich since everybody at some point realizes the futility of moral bindings...which is why though morality can persist in some rich people's lives... others can just tip over all these values corroborating its weakness...without anything convincing them otherwise.....😊

Whew... I thought I am convinced and now, may be i am confused...😆

Absolutely true if you are born into rich family with old money but it is changing a lot now since more rich people are not born rich but come from middle class. In the same way middle class is not the same anymore because they think like "rich" with access to same influence that rich has.

Middle-class sometimes ends up having false sense of morality simply by moving up from being poor and becoming middle class.

Originally posted by: lighthouse

You are right Gauri about my point there.. But I don't consider Ash's romances immoral . I mean she was pushing 30 and everyone in that age group has a right to have a partner and those who aren't in any relationship are mostly that way because they can't (for whatever reasons may be, too picky, not attractive enuf or too attractive) not because they want to remain virginal. She was lucky to get away from Salman when she did. I don't blame her for choosing Abhi over Vivek though.😉

oh, i don't consider it immoral either. all i am saying is that it's not ur cut and dry middle class values either....living with ur parents really do not prove anything...that's all i was saying. i am not even saying that people not having middle class values r bad or immoral😊 i am not in to judging anyone....who am i to judge anyone yaar!!!

Originally posted by: Gauri_3