Gay Bishops Right or Wrong? - Page 3

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Connie thumbnail
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Posted: 18 years ago
#21
@Believe.....The Catholic Church is directly linked with the Vatican (Pope) they lead a life of being celibate (totally chaste)touching the Eucharist is very sacred. I don't see how it differs if they are Protestants, cos their priest can marry.

The Bible is divided into two parts the Old and New Testament. I have no clue how do the priest know things if they are not mentioned in the Bible 😳

I found this very interesting pls do read it... 😊

http://patrickoneil.blogspot.com/2006/02/why-dont-catholic-p riests-marry.html
Connie thumbnail
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Posted: 18 years ago
#22
@ #1Ejaz Fan...you put forth your view really well 😛 surely the Bible is interpretted in the way the Evangelist have written it, and we should only take the spiritual side of it 😊

Connie thumbnail
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Posted: 18 years ago
#23

Originally posted by: #1EijazFan

connieji link isn't working 😭
and thank you, I get mixed up easily with the different branches 😳
sorry if i confused anyone 😊



I got this article from Google... about "why Catholic priest can't marry" I searched the related article from there 😊
Edited by Connie - 18 years ago
193980 thumbnail
Posted: 18 years ago
#24

Originally posted by: Connie


Maya ur absolutely right... 😊 lay ministers, preachers are allowed to marry.

Thanks Connie for your contribution here. 😊

Kal El thumbnail
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Posted: 18 years ago
#25
The link should be working. Try clicking below:

https://patrickoneil.blogspot.com/2006/02/why-dont-catholic-p riests-marry.html
Edited by Kal El - 18 years ago
-Believe- thumbnail
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Posted: 18 years ago
#26

Originally posted by: #1EijazFan

^believe, some things in the bible are written so that we can interpret it in our own way. --yes We doing that....in preist matter too i think so😳

Not everything in life is actually black and white. I personally believe we should take the spiritual meaning of the bibler, but then again thats just my thought 😊
and you are right about the vatican.
the pope i think, ermm john paul II? i think so was re-thinking the idea of divorce and im sure something came out of it. plus at your last point, yes its true because the old testament permitted divorce whereas the new 1 does not.
Matthew 5:27-32
^this is where jesus shows his views on divorce.

Am not against any believe,Totaly respect bible n love lot of views........but Marriage is not forbidden to them as human beings???? Bible not say that bt in preist matter they forbidden that.....aculty we need a mediator to talk with God?😳 sorry if any offence ok😊

-Believe- thumbnail
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Posted: 18 years ago
#27

Thank you for the link.....interesting!!!1😊

[quote]

from above link

Further, Catholics proclaim Mother Mary as Queen of Heaven, Queen of the Angels, Co-Redeemer, etc. and "venerate" her, pray to her, light votive candles, see apparitions/appearances of her, with miraculous healings, etc. WITHOUT A MOTHER, THERE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THE BIRTH OF JESUS. Yet, the patriarchial, oppressive, male chauvinist church still won't allow female priests. Hypocrites! You all are stuck somewhere between the Middle Ages and the Salem witch trials. God thought a woman was good enough to be chosen as the vessel to bear the Saviour into the world, yet you say a woman isn't good enough to be a priest? When will you all wake up and smell the coffee and "get it"? Your flocks are leaving in droves. You can't get enough males to enter the seminary to replace the priests that have left the priesthood. They are dying off, retiring, some left so they can marry and be "normal", and some were convicted of child sexual abuse scandals. GOD CREATED MARRIAGE AND CALLED IT GOOD! Denying, perverting, or blocking God's wisdom and will for our lives will cause all manner of evil to gain entry and work ill.

[/quote]

Edited by Believe - 18 years ago
return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 18 years ago
#28
Trying to elaborate on the subject matter and have people thinking deeper.

Gay Bishop right or wrong?

One of the major reasons that several churches are unwilling to accept gay bishops or priests is on the grounds that homosexuality is a sin. In my previous posts I expressed my opinion that abstinence can be equally achieved irrespective of sexual orientation, and that the personal moral ethical fiber of a person is more important than marital status or sexual orientation.

Now I want people to reflect on the first premise itself. Gay Bishop is wrong because homosexuality is a sin. I am not attempting to challenge a religious belief but have people probe the thought process of themselves and their religion to reflect whether this is a sin or not.

The way I perceive it. Sexual attraction is a biological instinct. It is the physical aspect of being a human. Love on the other hand is emotional. It is a bonding based on mutual feelings and emotions. It is the psychological aspect of being a human. A long term relationship would require a balance of both.

When a husband and wife are in a loving relationship are they together simply because they are sexually attracted to each other. Their love for each other plays a significant part doesn't it. They need to understand each other, respect each other, care for each other, stand by each other. Down the road as we age, physicality fades and we focus more on the companionship and emotional support.

Most moral scriptures condemn sex without love or commitment. This is universal to homosexual and heterosexual. Then why does it condemn two people of the same sex who love each other and make a commitment? The Bible itself speaks of universal love. If two people love each other and want to make a commitment then they should be allowed to do so right?

One argument is that homosexuality is unnatural.
When homosexuality has been observed in mammals like apes, lions, giraffes,dolphins, sheep hyenas, why is it unnatural.

Another argument is humans are different from animals
Homosexual behavior is seen in a large number of humans. None of them wake up one day and say I am gay. They all go through the same process of attraction, love like heterosexuals do. Why is it unnatural.

The next argument is that it defies God's divine purpose of procreation.
Let us assume that procreation is a divine gift and purpose. What about men and women who are infertile due to birth defects or life accidents. Do they fail the divine purpose? Should they not be allowed to have loving committed relationships as it is a failed purpose? Most importantly why do people who want to serve God should abstain from fulfilling the purpose of procreation. Does that not feel paradoxical.

If the next argument is that these people can adopt children to fulfill a family purpose, what is stopping same sex couples from adopting and forming families, other than laws which prevent them from doing so, laws which were influenced by religion because homosexuality is cited as a sin. We have come to a loop haven't we?

Now I do not want to make any implications, but last year I had to study the Bible for a course on the history of ancient Israel and came across this verse which to me seemed to have a whole lot of homosexuality implied. Christians whom I have asked curiously have artfully dodged, perhaps someone else can shed more light.

1 Samuel 18

1 When David had finished speaking to Saul, the soul of Jonathan was bound to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.
2 Saul took him [David] that day and would not let him return to his father's house.
3 Then Jonathan made a covenant with David, because he loved him as his own soul.
4 Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that he was wearing, and gave it to David, and his armor, and even his sword and his bow and his belt.

1 Samuel 20

17 Thus Jonathan made a covenant with the house of David, saying, "May the LORD seek out the enemies of David."
18 Jonathan made David swear again by his love for him; for he loved him as he loved his own life. ...

41 As soon as the boy had gone, David rose from beside the stone heap and prostrated himself with his face to the ground. He bowed three times, and they kissed each other, and wept with each other; David wept the more.

2 Samuel 1

25 How the mighty have fallen in the midst of the battle! Jonathan lies slain upon your high places.
26 I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan; greatly beloved were you to me; your love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.

Another question I have is that the covenant of Moses prevents working on Sabbath and stoning of those who do not obey, stoning adulterers, not eating pork or shellfish and a lot of other laws that no one follows today. When I ask why that is not followed or interpreted differently, I am answered that Jesus enlightened people on truths and taught differently. But Jesus never mentions homosexuality or condemns it?

The biggest argument against homosexuality is the destruction of Sodom.

Genesis 19

1 The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and bowed down with his face to the ground.
2 He said, "Please, my lords, turn aside to your servant's house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you can rise early and go on your way." They said, "No; we will spend the night in the square."
3 But he urged them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.
4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house;
5 and they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, so that we may know them."
6 Lot went out of the door to the men, shut the door after him,
7 and said, "I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly.
8 Look, I have two daughters who have not known a man; let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please; only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof."
9 But they replied, "Stand back!" And they said, "This fellow came here as an alien, and he would play the judge! Now we will deal worse with you than with them." Then they pressed hard against the man Lot, and came near the door to break it down.
10 But the men inside reached out their hands and brought Lot into the house with them, and shut the door.
11 And they struck with blindness the men who were at the door of the house, both small and great, so that they were unable to find the door

My question is was Sodom destroyed because of their abuse or because of homosexual abuse? Would God have pardoned them if it was two women instead? If God had destroyed Sodom for sexually abusing women would we have condemned heterosexuality?

So is homosexuality indeed a sin as it is etched out to be? Based on that Gay Bishop Right or Wrong?

My intention is not to provoke any religious sentiments, but we have all been gifted with rational thought and should be able to form a rational train of thought process on why or why not we believe in what we do.
Morgoth thumbnail
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Posted: 18 years ago
#29
Return to Hades,

You stole the words right out of my mouth. From the existence of homosexuality in other animals to the reference of Genesis 19, where the old man was willing to give away his virgin daughters in lieu of the male guest (is that not a crime as well?). Spot on.

In my view, religious scriptures are not infallible as they have been written by humans. While part of the scriptures have spiritual principle, the rest of them include laws, in essence, and many of these laws no longer apply or have changed to suit circumstances.

According to a passage of the Bible, it was also said that Jesus was looked down upon because of his followers, which included "the lame, the poor, thieves and prostitutes". Basically anyone society was prejudiced against at the time. (Please feel free to quote the passage if you find it; I am unable to locate it)

If a female bishop (Katherine Schori) can be accepted by the Anglicans, why aren't Gay bishops accepted?
Edited by Morgoth - 18 years ago
pinkstarrs_9 thumbnail
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Posted: 18 years ago
#30

Return to Hades

no words left to say

really well said dear 👏...

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