Caste System - Page 3

Originally posted by: Ms. Bholi Bhali

all the Indians Muslims I know, don't follow this,

We, the Hindus, don't follow it either but our Indian politicians do. They have awarded Dalit status to many irrespective of religion.

Hindu caste system is also not what you think. It is mis-interpreted. Let us not delve into Islam and Hinduism and keep our debate only limited to caste system in Indian society. I think we are sensible enough to do that.

Originally posted by: Maya_M

We, the Hindus, don't follow it either but our Indian politicians do. They have awarded Dalit status to many irrespective of religion.

Hindu caste system is also not what you think. It is mis-interpreted. Let us not delve into Islam and Hinduism and keep our debate only limited to caste system in Indian society. I think we are sensible enough to do that.

Maya, I am glad you made this post. Otherwise, I felt like asking Ms Bholi Bhali about the plight of Mojahirs in Pakistaan and the class conciousness of middle eastern muslims who feel that the asian muslims are inferior to them because their forefathers were converted to Islam....not born in to Islam.

Castesism in Indian society is akin to this discrimination based on birth in a certain community/family in any other religion any where in the world. Since the debate topic is about castesism with in Indian society, let us focus on that only irrespective of what religion us Indians belong to. Everywhere in the world, all societies have some skeletons in their cupboards. We happen to have a broader outlook and have the guts to discuss what's inflicting our society and hampering healthy growth.

Originally posted by: Ms. Bholi Bhali

if in India, Muslims follow this caste system, it doesn't mean that rest of the world follow it. and it is in the core teachings too.

don't take the example of one group of ppl and apply it to all.

Islam doesn't promote caste system, in fact rejects it. 😊

I think your should send this teachings to the imams and other self-styled leaders in india... 😊.. but the way muslims men world-wide trample their women the question is do you need any other form of casteism...?😊

Originally posted by: Ms. Bholi Bhali

this is something I am hearing for the first time

I searched for it on net. and this is what I found:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_ Muslims

It is ONLY in South Asia........ that too in Places where they have been influenced by the Hindu Caste system. other then that Islam doesn't support this. and it is not also present. there is no caste system in Islam. Knowing Islam, and being a Muslim are two different things. and as a Muslim, I can assure you that there is NO caste system in Islam!! 😊

To add to that there is NO Caste system in Hinduism either....

Caste System is a practice independant of religion based on Profession... So Caste system can be followed even if someone has converted to Islam or Christianity...Unfortunately... In South Asia... Hindus, Muslims and Christians.. all three practice casteism...

But all religion do have their divisions... Islam has Shias, Sunnis, Ahmadis

Christianity has Catholics, Protestants, etc..

Hinduism has Vaishnavites, Shaivites, etc..

when any religion has sects and sub-sects, the class and caste automatically creeps in. there is no question of its lack of existence.

@ ms bholi bhali..dont put pakistani/bangladeshi muslims as a separate people...those are all indian muslims who moved sides when pakistan/bangladesh was created....

though caste system is not majorly practised by the aam janta...politicians make a big deal out of it and it comes in handy for admissions to professional courses etc in the name of upliftment.

most people otherise dont care about the castes....

Originally posted by: Ms. Bholi Bhali

thats a sensible debate?

When there is no caste system in Islam. then from where did Islam come from??

weather in Muslims or Christians this addition is done after being influenced by the surroundings. (that too I believe is found in a very small group, as all the Indians Muslims I know, don't follow this, and in Pakistan I have never come across it or heard in any debate or anything.)

the debate should be on the Hindu Caste system. and not of others, which is a added thing for them. Indian society majority consist of Hindus.

Muslims and Christians should NOT be brought here.

The Biggest you are making is associating Caste System with religion... There is no such thing as Hindu Caste System or Muslim Caste System...

No religion preaches Caste system... But is practised by people of all religions somewhere in the World... Any form of discrimination is caste system...

A caste is a group with a person thinks he/she belongs to besides a religious identity or nationality..

Be it rich and poor.. dicrimination based on profession or any such thing... Even divisions like Shia and Sunni is akin to caste system...

When people were/are criticizing Hinduism for its caste system ,do you find the Hindus saying that go and read the Vedas and Upanishads it is not part of Hinduism. Did the Hindus say those who are practising it are not Hindus . I see terrorists killing in the name Islam and only thing I hear is that they are not muslims. Hindus accepted that there were/are shortcomings and trying to improve upon it. Are the muslims doing the same? People are going to judge any religion by its followers. Any religion is as good/bad as its followers. why don't you show the verses to the govt. of Saudi Arabia? How much freedom of religion is there ? Is there any educated muslim protesting?

Let me copy from my previous post about cast system in hindus:

Let me tell you some thing about the caste system .
The caste system was never the was it is now.

The very word 'caste' is not Indian.
It is of Portugese origin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste#Etymology_of_the_English_ word_caste
The related Indian word is "Varna" and "jati".
It was a social order based on one's occupation NOT BIRTH.
Over the time the system got corrupted (power corrupts)and
the higher order people like Brahmins manipulated it for their own
advantage and it became associated with one's BIRTH.
Even lord 'Gautam Buddha'who founded Buddhism believed in the varna system.
We have many instances in Indian history to show that one can change
one's varna.
Take the example of sage 'valmiki'.
He was of tribal orgin (which is of the lowest order in varna) but rose
to become a brahmin and wrote the 'Ramayana'.
Lord krishna was born into a yadav family(Lalu Prasad yadav rings a bell) which is considered to be among the backward classes today.

The social order or rather the division of society based on occupation
is not a new phenomenon .
Just a couple of centuries back.
There was the feudal system .
They had the feudal lords and the peasants in the whole Europe.
All did their respective duties and it was very much based on
one's birth.
A lord's son became a lord.
A peasant's son became a peasant.
None of the pre modern societies have been egalitarian in terms of belief or practice.
Discrimination by those who control power / economy has been a norm.
Only that in context of Indian society / hindism this was sought to be given a religious cover name of Casteism.
I don't remember people saying the division of society along the lines
of lords and peasants is part of Christianity.
Then why people say it is part of Hinduism?


Again, the very word 'religion' is of western origin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#Etymology
The correct word for Hinduism in Sanskrit is 'Sanatan Dharma'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism
'sanatan' means eternal and 'dharma' means duties.
There is nothing in Hinduism that says that in order to be
considered a Hindu you have to believe in this God
or do exactly as written in this particular book.
In short,
there is no perfect definitin/answer so as to who is a Hindu.
Hinduism is a way of life not just a set of beliefs.
You can be a 'athiest' and still be a Hindu.
(read about the charvaka traditions in Hinduism)

Traditionally ,Hinduism did not accept any converts.
One was considered Hindu only if he was born into a Hindu family.
Hindus never tried to convert others the reason is
Hindus believe in the concept of 'vasudev kutumbakum',
which means, 'the whole world is my family'.
Hindus believe that there is more than one way to reach God.
You can be a Christian and still reach God.
you can be a Muslim and still reach God.
In Hinduism one is judged solely based on one's deeds not any believe system.


Recently,from the last century or a bit more onwards,
Hindus have also started accepting converts.
If you convert to Hinduism you can most probably say
you belong to a particular varna based on your occupation.
But again ,there is no particular central authority in hinduism,
who can lay down hard and fast rules in Hinduism.
Different people will have diferent opinions in this matter.
I bet ,if you say that you have converted and become a Brahmin
not many will raise an eyebrow.



Some food for thought:
A Sunni muslim will not go to a Shia mosque .
A Shia muslim will not go to a Sunni mosque .
A catholic christian will not go to a protestant church.
A Protestant Christian will not go to a Catholic Church.
In Buddhism you have these Hinayana and Mahayana sects.
These sects have different places of worship
Iin Hinduism , people of all caste go to the same place of worship.

Hinduism divides or unites?

------------------------------

Am not againt any religion...I read and respect ,accept good points from other religion too...if any hard feeling sorry for that....when we talking about cast system in a particular religion it will happen sometime so Dil pe mat lo😊

caste system is stil practised in india... infortuntaly in my family too... we have been out of india for bout 20 yrs and still my mum belives in it..n tells us 2..

I dont think any religion means to promote casteism. Human's have divided themselves into septs and fractions, and have changed the meanings or ways to go about their faith. Casteism is spread too far wide, among the educated and the un-educated, so nothing but the change of each's own mind can make a difference, and I dont think there is a solution for this other than that. And this being a solution that is most unlikely to come by.

Some food for thought:
A Sunni muslim will not go to a Shia mosque .
A Shia muslim will not go to a Sunni mosque .
A catholic christian will not go to a protestant church.
A Protestant Christian will not go to a Catholic Church.
In Buddhism you have these Hinayana and Mahayana sects.
These sects have different places of worship
Iin Hinduism , people of all caste go to the same place of worship.

Hinduism divides or unites?
------------------------------------------------
well, all the things u have said above is nothing to do with
CASTE SYAYTEM".
its to do with religiouse belivies !!!

i dont know whether u accpet or might get angrey or dont know, i have lodzz if hindu friends , but some of them eat meat but( not COW )and some of them arent and both have different expliantion , but it doesnt mean that they are not hindu , yes they are hindus (as i think) , but with different beleives , THIS is SAME AS with SUNNI and SHIA muslim, both ppl are muslim but with bit different belevies.
...............................................

point number two, CLASS SYSTEM which totaly different thing, and class system is about a family"s wealth , here in ireland ppl say , i belong to middle class family , it means they arent very rich either very poor, and its all over the world, NOT ONLY IN PAKISTAN!!!

so class system and caste system are two different thing not ONE!!

i hope u ppl understand , what i am saying