Member Topic: Do you support the queer community? - Page 5

https://www.latestly.com/agency-news/entertainment-news-ricky-martin-and-jwan-yosef-announce-divorce-after-6-years-of-marriage-5249560.html

Why do LGBTQ people get married and have kids through surrogacy and then get divorce? Why bring kids into picture if you’re not going to be together as a couple? Do they know what happens to the child’s psyche in a divorced family household and at school?

Why do opposite-sex couples get married and divorced? Why do they bring innocent kids into such potentially unstable relationships, sometimes even resorting to surrogacy and adoption to fulfil their urges to create a family?

Why do same-sex and non-binary couples in unhappy marriages stay together for the sake of the kids? Do they know what happens to a child's psyche in a loveless household of compromise?

Why does the legal right to marry come with the legal right to divorce? What use is individual freedom when bystanders might not approve of what you do at every point in your life?

Why does anyone try to live when life is unpredictable? Why try to make someone else's life better with sex, love, commitment, nurture, parenting, or letting go, when someday you might reach a different stage of life with different priorities?

What a relief that no woman is ever raped by her husband! We would have to outlaw opposite-sex marriage just to feel safe, whenever we finish outlawing penises in the individual cubicles of ladies' public restrooms, where cis people go to urinate and defecate and trans people couldn't possibly want the same.

Why not force children to develop into adults with the wrong bodies - unwanted hair or breasts and wrong-sized bones and muscles? When they're finally allowed to transition, it will be like they never suffered throughout every day of puberty, right? There shouldn't be any lingering effects on self-esteem, especially when people point and say that you look too ..... to be a real .....

Should counselling include listening to the patient and discussing scientific treatment options? Surely it's enough to say "No, you're not!" until the patient is old enough for "You're a grown-up, deal with it!" - and dismiss childhood trans identity as "mental illness" needing that kind of "counselling."

Should the law permit medical professionals to prioritize the needs of powerless children over the parents' right to interfere? Whose voice should prevail - the adult custodian of a body or the child who has to live with that body?

It's saddening to read this thread with so much ridicule for people's differences or mental health. If you don't understand a person's behaviour, it must be fake, attention-seeking, immoral ... whatever label justifies mockery. It's easy to relate to mockery and dismiss an entire minority class of people as undeserving of equal rights and freedoms.

It takes more conscious effort to admit that you don't understand someone else's life experience or behaviour, but treat that person with empathy anyway.

Originally posted by: Swetha-Sai

https://www.latestly.com/agency-news/entertainment-news-ricky-martin-and-jwan-yosef-announce-divorce-after-6-years-of-marriage-5249560.html

Why do LGBTQ people get married and have kids through surrogacy and then get divorce? Why bring kids into picture if you’re not going to be together as a couple? Do they know what happens to the child’s psyche in a divorced family household and at school?

The exact same reason heterosexual people get married. The exact same reason couples who cannot conceive use IVF, surrogacy, and other means to have children. No one expects to divorce. It's just something that happens. If the risk of divorce means not having kids - then the human race will be eliminated faster than ever.

Originally posted by: BrhannadaArmour

Why do opposite-sex couples get married and divorced? Why do they bring innocent kids into such potentially unstable relationships, sometimes even resorting to surrogacy and adoption to fulfil their urges to create a family?

Why do same-sex and non-binary couples in unhappy marriages stay together for the sake of the kids? Do they know what happens to a child's psyche in a loveless household of compromise?

Why does the legal right to marry come with the legal right to divorce? What use is individual freedom when bystanders might not approve of what you do at every point in your life?

Why does anyone try to live when life is unpredictable? Why try to make someone else's life better with sex, love, commitment, nurture, parenting, or letting go, when someday you might reach a different stage of life with different priorities?

What a relief that no woman is ever raped by her husband! We would have to outlaw opposite-sex marriage just to feel safe, whenever we finish outlawing penises in the individual cubicles of ladies' public restrooms, where cis people go to urinate and defecate and trans people couldn't possibly want the same.

Why not force children to develop into adults with the wrong bodies - unwanted hair or breasts and wrong-sized bones and muscles? When they're finally allowed to transition, it will be like they never suffered throughout every day of puberty, right? There shouldn't be any lingering effects on self-esteem, especially when people point and say that you look too ..... to be a real .....

Should counselling include listening to the patient and discussing scientific treatment options? Surely it's enough to say "No, you're not!" until the patient is old enough for "You're a grown-up, deal with it!" - and dismiss childhood trans identity as "mental illness" needing that kind of "counselling."

Should the law permit medical professionals to prioritize the needs of powerless children over the parents' right to interfere? Whose voice should prevail - the adult custodian of a body or the child who has to live with that body?

It's saddening to read this thread with so much ridicule for people's differences or mental health. If you don't understand a person's behaviour, it must be fake, attention-seeking, immoral ... whatever label justifies mockery. It's easy to relate to mockery and dismiss an entire minority class of people as undeserving of equal rights and freedoms.

It takes more conscious effort to admit that you don't understand someone else's life experience or behaviour, but treat that person with empathy anyway.

It’s not that I don’t have empathy for LGTBQ people. People should have freedom to do whatever they want.

Even in normal couples ie Male Female union - be it live in or marriage or whatever, people are free to live with whom so ever they fall in love with.

Having children and raising them is huge responsibility. If you are unsure of your life or about your partner’s life and might separate in future, don’t have kids at all. I didn’t say don’t have sex.

No child would like to see their parents ( male female , both males or both females) separated or feel that they’re just unwanted or face taunts or whatever from other kids for things beyond their control.

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

The exact same reason heterosexual people get married. The exact same reason couples who cannot conceive use IVF, surrogacy, and other means to have children. No one expects to divorce. It's just something that happens. If the risk of divorce means not having kids - then the human race will be eliminated faster than ever.

It’s good na. Then, there’ll be less burden on existing natural resources on Planet Earth as no of people to compete for the same reduces.

People have kids as they want their lineage to grow.. but I feel bad for those kids who grow in broken households. Their psyche is completely destroyed. You think money or additional love by relatives or one of the parents will be Ok for the child to overcome it?

In reality, no relationship ( parents - children, between spouses, with friends ) is without fights and breakup’s. It’s entirely the choice you make. Whether to continue the relationship or break it permanently.

Regardless of our political views and affiliations, when it comes to children, I would like to believe that we all come from a good place with good intentions and want nothing but the very best for our kids and have nothing but their wellbeing in our hearts.

While I have no interest in discussing or debating what adults (18+) decide to do with respect to “transitioning” or “detransitioning”, I don’t mind discussing/debating gender incongruence / dysphoria in children/minors, with debaters who can stand their ground and argue and not summon all the moderators of these forums at the slightest of pushback to their ideology, to get my posts censored!

While we know that the physical sex of a person is determined by the phenotype and assigned by the physician/doctor at birth, I read that in some children, there is a persistent incongruence between sex and gender identity to an extent that the children wish to get rid of their primary and/or secondary sexual characteristics and acquire the physical/phenotypic characteristics of a gender, which is different from that of birth sex. My question here is, how’s this incongruence clinically diagnosed? Is it simply based on what toys the children would like to play with and how they would like to dress, or, is there more to the diagnosis such as lab tests and imaging? When it comes to dysphoria, what rises to being a clinically significant distress? What are the parameters used to medically conclude that a child is suffering from dysphoria?

With respect to treatment, the FDA hasn’t approved puberty blockers for gender dysphoria (only approved to treat precocious puberty). In fact, as recently as last year, FDA warned that GnRH agonists may cause brain swelling, severe headaches, nausea, double vision, and even permanent vision loss so how are these experimental treatments even allowed for children? How exactly do the “rewards” of taking puberty blockers outweigh the risks / side effects, according to you? Bear in mind that we don’t have data on the long term effects since most of this is a recent phenomenon.

I will move on to hormone therapy once I get a satisfactory response to my above questions.

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

My question here is, how’s this incongruence clinically diagnosed? Is it simply based on what toys the children would like to play with and how they would like to dress, or, is there more to the diagnosis such as lab tests and imaging? When it comes to dysphoria, what rises to being a clinically significant distress? What are the parameters used to medically conclude that a child is suffering from dysphoria?

Gender dysphoria is something I cannot wrap my head around. I never liked toys intended for my gender. I never dressed in clothes intended for my gender. But my family never questioned me or told me to behave more like a girl. I never questioned being a girl until I crushed on girls. I thought only boys could like girls; maybe I should have been a boy. But that was addressed when I learned what homosexuality was. Sure, there have been many times I have hated my body as a girl - ugh, bra shopping and underboob sweat, ugh, periods and period cramps. And sure, there have been many times I have fantasized about having a penis - can pee in a bottle while driving and convenient self-satisfaction. But never ever have I ever felt being a girl is trapped or considered surgery to change my biological sex.

So while gender atypical behavior or dislike of one's anatomy may be considered symptoms of gender dysphoria, I sure hope that there is a much more profound disconnect. Since I am not a medical or mental health expert, I hope that medical professionals know what they are doing when it comes to gender dysphoria. Just because I cannot comprehend something doesn't mean people may not experience something. I don't understand why any woman in her right mind would want to get pregnant and shove an 8 lb bowling ball out of her vagina and then decide she wants to do it again - but women do that over and over.

I honestly don't know. If there are children who genuinely feel trapped in the wrong body and it is making them miserable, then they need help. If there are children who may be needlessly altering their bodies, then they need help. I don't think people who are opposed to or supportive of children receiving gender-affirming care have malicious intent. I think both sides genuinely care for children to be happy and healthy. and if medical professionals aren't sure then we need more data and research.

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

With respect to treatment, the FDA hasn’t approved puberty blockers for gender dysphoria (only approved to treat precocious puberty). In fact, as recently as last year, FDA warned that GnRH agonists may cause brain swelling, severe headaches, nausea, double vision, and even permanent vision loss so how are these experimental treatments even allowed for children? How exactly do the “rewards” of taking puberty blockers outweigh the risks / side effects, according to you? Bear in mind that we don’t have data on the long term effects since most of this is a recent phenomenon.

I will move on to hormone therapy once I get a satisfactory response to my above questions.

The NHS banned puberty blockers for gender-affirming care outside of research projects. I would be supportive of the United States and other nations following suit. If there is not enough evidence that a drug can be used to treat an ailment, then it cannot be used to treat said ailment until there is enough data to draw a conclusion.

The only reward is people who took puberty blockers that it was life-saving. But we won't know the long-term effect for a long time.

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Cross-dressing people and transgender people have been around for ages. BUT gender-affirming surgery has been around for less than a century. Gender-affirming treatment for children is even newer. I think when it comes to minors, there is a lot of room for pushback and gathering more data.

That being said, there needs to be a rational, civil discussion in society from all sides. Not everyone who supports gender-affirming care is a groomer or pedophile. Not everyone who opposes gender-affirming care is a transphobe or homophobe. The issue needs to be focused on facts and not alarmist misinformation.

Historically, the conviction that one’s gender doesn’t match one’s anatomical sex affected only .01 percent of children, almost exclusively boys.

[skeptic.com/reading_room/trans-science-review-of-abigail-shier-irreversible-damage-transgender-craze-seducing-our-daughters/]

In 2018, the UK reported a 4400% rise over the previous decade in teenage girls seeking gender treatments. In the US, the prevalence of adolescent gender dysphoria has increased by over 1000% in the last decade. California, New York, Massachusetts, Washington topped the charts.

Is there a positive correlation between a nation and the numbers for adolescent gender dysphoria? More "advanced" the nation, higher the numbers? Similarly, within an advanced nation, is there a positive correlation between a state /province and the numbers for adolescent gender dysphoria? More "liberal" the state/province, higher the numbers? If there is a correlation, to what specific factor do you attribute the rise in numbers?

In those states and in those countries where the numbers are negligible (statistically speaking), would it mean they are sweeping a problem under the rug or there is no problem to speak of?

But a lot more research, data gathering, and evaluation is needed. When it came to homosexuality, liberal states meant more exposure to gay people and less fear of coming out. Conservative states meant not being exposed to gay people and fear of being different. A modest amount of youth tried to experiment and ape their peers. But that experimentation was reversible. They could go back to heterosexual dating and could reproduce biologically if they chose to.

I suspect a similar effect is happening right now for transgender youth. But the challenge is that gender-affirming care is not easily reversible.

Even when homosexuality was becoming more acceptable, the increase in people coming out wasn't exponential. The increase in gender non-conforming behavior seems to have happened within the last decade and primarily within Gen Z.

But the liberal to transgender correlation is not always true. Iran has the second-highest number of gender reassignments per year. It is because per Islamic law there - homosexuality is a sin, but one can be born in the wrong body and receive care from the government to make it right.

Here is what I believe. I do not know if it has any rational scientific basis.

Sex is biological. You can be born male, female, or intersex.

Gender is sociocultural. It is the behavior society expected whether you were born male or female. This is variable. Things considered manly in one society, maybe feminine in another, and vice versa.

Gender or behavior does not have to align with biological sex. Anyone can dress, behave, and present in whatever way they want, irrespective of biological sex. Society needs to evolve to be more embracing of people who may not conform to their expected gender behavior.

Despite the freedom of gender expression, if someone genuinely wants to change their biological sex, they can do so as an adult. If a child feels trapped despite being allowed their desired gender expression, then it needs experts need to evaluate carefully on a case-by-case basis to determine if gender-affirming care is needed.

I think male or female spaces were originally designed by humans based on biological sex (male/female/intersex) rather than sociocultural gender identity (masculine/feminine/nonbinary). I do not think it is transphobic for people to desire spaces and identifications based on biological space. A person who has transitioned via surgery is welcome in biological spaces. But someone still biologically intact male shouldn't be allowed in female spaces and vice versa.

Of course, that raises questions

- what if someone cannot afford to transition

- what about children if transitioning is limited to adults

- what of the data that shows children who receive gender-affirming care are happier

I do not know. This topic is new, and there are so many variables and unknowns. I think all sides of the debate need to come together to try and navigate this in good faith.

That being said - I think treating humans with kindness and respect is of utmost importance. Bullying, demeaning, or harassing anyone because of how they present or their ideology is not acceptable. This goes to both sides. Transgender folks shouldn't be subject to violence or be called perverts/pedophiles without evidence. And the violent rape threats trans rights folks send JK Rowling and others with similar ideology is unacceptable.

Well, the science behind sex determination in mammals is pretty straightforward. I am sure most people know that primary sex determination is chromosomal with XY for male and XX for female. Secondary sex determination involves the development of the female and male phenotypes in response to hormones secreted (estrogen in females and testosterone in males). There are exceptions due to biological disorders but those are rare.

We could get into gene expression, neuroanatomy and sexual dimorphic brain and how that influences the psychosexual development of an individual and how that may in turn affect gender identity but that’s where I want the real geneticists to come in and evaluate the kids before prescribing treatments or medications. This is completely outside the purview of activists, school teachers and unscrupulous politicians.

I don’t know what gender studies entails and who gender “scholars”are, but I doubt it is genetics with real geneticists behind it. I don’t know what they are teaching in classrooms and if those teachings are designed to cause more confusion and anxiety in kids. Depending on whether you subscribe to New York Times or New York Post, Washington Examiner or Washington Post, you get different perspectives, pandering to both the left wing and the right wing.

As for reassignment surgeries for adults, I would leave it up to the other participants for a more elaborate discussion. I am of the view that it shouldn’t matter if the adults have dysphoria or not to go through hormone therapy or reassignment surgery. It’s their prerogative. I believe the legality and formalities behind the therapies and surgeries are bound by local laws. Hopefully before any/all life altering hormone therapies and sex reassignment surgeries, the risks, long term effects and fine print, if any, is made abundantly clear to the ones willing to go through the medical procedures.

Of course we should treat everyone with respect, have empathy, denounce bullying and condemn harassment in the strongest possible terms. Most companies make employees undergo annual trainings and workshops on these subjects. Heck, we all ace these quizzes. But it’s one thing to know the right answer to a question and another to put in acharan what you know. When it comes to people, what they say out loud and what they actually do, don’t always align.