Is Karvachauth wrong? - Page 3

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

^^

There tends to be a very fine line between social conditioning and expectations vs. one's own free will.

A woman who gets breast augmentation may do it on her own with no pressure. She does it because she wants to look and feel great with bigger boobs. She tells herself that this is for me, because I love me'. Yet, despite that somewhere subliminally there can be the pressure - flat chest isn't attractive, men desire bigger boobs, you're pretty - but you could look prettier if only your boobs were bigger.

I think the something similar happens with burqua or ritual fasting. A woman who follows traditions is revered and elevated. She is described as honorable, loving, traditional, respectful and a lot of other praises. She is said to understand the importance of culture and preserve the romance and beauty behind traditions. Most women want to be treated special. No one wants to feel as if they lack any of these positive qualities. So many women engage in these traditions. They do it wholeheartedly and are exceptionally happy doing it. They don't feel that they have been forced. But at a subliminal level there is some conditioning.

Of course it is hard to separate the free will from conditioning. We would appear petty, nitpicky and ridiculous if we tried to distill every human action. We belong to society and we all do things to fit in more. So whether it is to keep a fast, get bigger boobs or whatever individual choice must be respected.

At the same time the message must be stated that you don't need to do anything to fit in or feel special or appear good. Every man and woman deserves the chance to be considered good and feel special, irrespective of their appearances or how strictly/loosely they adhere to tradition.

Originally posted by: joie de vivre

It's a relic of a shockingly misogynistic past. A woman's social status and worth is tied to her husband's existence, which is why she prays for his long life, because without him, she is worthless and a social pariah. India's treatment of widows has been - and remains to be - absolutely and staggeringly barbaric. How ANY woman can NOT feel insulted by this load of drivel is beyond me.

As for women 'choosing' to partake in this sh!t... it's a bit like Muslim women who choose to wear the burqa and call it their 'choice' or women who get boob-jobs and expect society to treat that as something not deserving censure because they are just exercising their volition. These women might be making a choice, but they are also entrenching misogyny and inequality and their actions indicate that they are victims of a culture of inescapable misogyny and sexism.

The sooner women come to their senses and stop showing totally unwarranted and unnecessary respect to their husbands, the sooner these men will learn how to see women as their equal. As for the in-laws, they should fu(k off to the darkest circle of hell or mind their own damn business. Cultural relativism shouldn't be used here as a get out of jail card in these cases.

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

sure, no one has to do anything to feel special. Beautiful relationships just happen without any hard work and sacrifice. Hope we got that right?😆 i knew there's a reason i like valentines. All it takes is to decide who to go out with, call the flower shop, book a nice table at a classy restaurant, and it's done. It's a bed of roses all night after that😆

if you think about it, almost everything in life is either conditioning/ enironment/ nurture or it's genes. Now just because something is conditioning does not mean it's bad. We should in fact "condition" ourselves to do the "right" things. Societies function better if we do that. In the case of KC, we are not requiring others to fast. It does not infringe on other people's rights. It is all about the woman feeling special. So conditioning or not, how is that bad? Also, whether or not there is free will is debatable. Perhaps everything is conditioned,, but that shouldn't stop us from going about life assuming we are all responsible for our actions.So while you brought in some good points, they are mostly irrelevant imo. 😊

No denying that one should be conditioned' to do the right' things. But I don't see fasts or other rituals as right' or wrong'. There are many right' things in a relationship like faithfulness, respect, compromise, support, companionship and a whole lot more things that are reflected in everyday behavior. I never stated that people feel special without any effort. But right and wrong and goodness of a person is based on everyday general behavior - not merely by rituals.

Yes. Everything we do is conditioning in some way. And conditioning can be good, bad or neutral.

In my perspective

You will be a good husband/wife if you have a strong bond built on mutual trust, respect and compromise is good conditioning.

You will be a good wife if you fast and say prayers for your significant others is something I find borderline. A bit unfair and kind of illogical.

You can make yourself and your significant other feel loved and special through certain fasts and rituals if you wish to, is perhaps more palatable.

In the end an unfaithful or abusive spouse will be just that irrespective of any fasts or valentines day hooplas. A faithful, respectful spouse will always be one even if they don't keep fasts and forget a certain day.

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

Why fast once an year then? Why not once a month? Why not once a week? Why not every day?

Don't the enumerated "benefits" multiply?

I am not saying that social conditioning doesn't play into what decisions we make. It most definitely does. But as previously said, it is impossible to dissect each lifestyle choice that a woman makes. My point is, that irrespective of what decision she does make, she should be respected.

She may be a good, loving wife and not fast, or a bad one and fast. Whether or not she fasts doesn't reflect anything on her character. I don't disagree with that! I don't think anyone here thinks that fasting equates happy marriage. However, Karva Chauth is a religious practice, and if someone willingly chooses to participate in it, I don't see how it is wrong.

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

Why fast once an year then? Why not once a month? Why not once a week? Why not every day?

Don't the enumerated "benefits" multiply?