Civilization - Aryans or Dravids

While on of the debate talking about Indian history, i happend to search and was also pointed out by one of the friend here.

The facts that we have been reading in our history are expect to be Myth.

According to new articrafts the civilization started around river saraswati which was covering most of subcontinet. Due course in time, Saraswati retrieved and many tributries were formed or glaciers were captured by other smaller tributries (Reason not too clear yet) part of River Saraswati are narmad/Tapti, Indus, Ganga, Yamuna (May be Brahmputra since it's source is also around it. It was supposed to be a huge river. As Sarawati got divided the civilization moved and majority of it settled around indus giving birth to Indus valley civilization.

Is Aryans invading really a Myth

But then what was the reason for Mongols to backup. Is the theory of Aryan really a made up story????

What do you guys thing or know

The Aryan Invasion Theory was more than likely exaggerated for the British to subdue the Indians. It made it easier for the Europeans to conquer India so that they could 'divide and conquer'. The concept of 'Dravidian' and 'Aryan' is too skewed. Infact, we are all the same.

The Aryan Invasion Theory
One of the most controversial ideas about Hindu history is the Aryan invasion theory.

This theory, originally devised by F. Max Muller in 1848, traces the history of Hinduism to the invasion of India's indigenous people by lighter skinned Aryans around 1500 BCE.

The theory was reinforced by other research over the next 120 years, and became the accepted history of Hinduism, not only in the West but in India.

But many people argue that there is now evidence to show that Muller, and those who followed him, were wrong.

Others, however, believe that the case against the Aryan invation theory is far from conclusive.

The matter remains very controversial and highly politicised. The article below sets out the case made by those who believe that the Aryan invasion theory is seriously flawed.

The case against the Aryan invasion theory
The Aryan invasion theory was based on archaeological, linguistic and ethnological evidence.

Later research, it is argued, has either discredited this evidence, or provided new evidence that combined with the earlier evidence makes other explanations more likely.

Some historians of the area no longer believe that such invasions had such great influence on Indian history. It's now generally accepted that Indian history shows a continuity of progress from the earliest times to today.

The changes brought to India by other cultures are not denied by modern historians, but they are no longer thought to be a major ingredient in the development of Hinduism.

Dangers of the theory
Opponents of the Aryan invasion theory claim that it denies the Indian origin of India's predominant culture, and gives the credit for Indian culture to invaders from elsewhere.

They say that it even teaches that some of the most revered books of Hindu scripture are not actually Indian, and it devalues India's culture by portraying it as less ancient than it actually is.

The theory was not just wrong, some say, but included unacceptably racist ideas:

it suggested that Indian culture was not a culture in its own right, but a synthesis of elements from other cultures it implied that Hinduism was not an authentically Indian religion but the result of cultural imperialism it suggested that Indian culture was static, and only changed under outside influences it suggested that the dark-skinned Dravidian people of the South of India had got their faith from light-skinned Aryan invaders it implied that indigenous people were incapable of creatively developing their faith it suggested that indigenous peoples could only acquire new religious and cultural ideas from other races, by invasion or other processes it accepted that race was a biologically based concept (rather than, at least in part, a social construct) that provided a sensible way of ranking people in a hierarchy, which provided a partial basis for the caste system it provided a basis for racism in the Imperial context by suggesting that the peoples of Northern India were descended from invaders from Europe and so racially closer to the British Raj it gave a historical precedent to justify the role and status of the British Raj, who could argue that they were transforming India for the better in the same way that the Aryans had done thousands of years earlier
• it downgraded the intellectual status of India and its people by giving a falsely late date to elements of Indian science and culture

https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/history/his tory5.shtml

https://www.stephen-knapp.com/solid_evidence_debunking_aryan_ invasion.htm

Here is an intersting link I found regarding Aryan invasion
http://www.hindubooks.org/david_frawley/myth_aryan_invasion/

I used to believe in Aryan theory as well but that was because we were taught that way in schools. History was written by our invaders. They have no proof that any such migration occurred. Even the carbon dating of indus civilization was falsified.
See the whole midset behind this theiry is to give credit to all the discoverie sto European civilizations..even the credit of Sanskrit.
I will post more as I get more information about this..

Intresting DF. 😃

What a shame that we blindly believed what Europeons told us. 😕 Any way better late then never. I will also try to find some more on it...>Then we were debating if British Raj was good for us. I mean , they started whol thing up just to strength themself 😡

Originally posted by: Dazlingflower

Here is an intersting link I found regarding Aryan invasion
https://www.hindubooks.org/david_frawley/myth_aryan_invasion/

I used to believe in Aryan theory as well but that was because we were taught that way in schools. History was written by our invaders. They have no proof that any such migration occurred. Even the carbon dating of indus civilization was falsified.
See the whole midset behind this theiry is to give credit to all the discoverie sto European civilizations..even the credit of Sanskrit.
I will post more as I get more information about this..

Worth visiting link 👏

well even I ebelived abt the aryan invasion coz my we were taught the same in our school and textbook , But now when I reasd abt it on the net, I realised that it was a myth .

There is a theory that dravidians were already the inhabitants of india when the aryan invaded them and drove them to the south and that the dravidians were mainly from the middle east .

I found an interesting article abt dravidian people,its interesting

Concept of the Dravidian race

See Also Zoroastrianism and Hinduism#Ahuras versus Devas

The identification of the Dravidian people as a separate race arose from the realization by 19th-century Western scholars that there existed a group of languages spoken by people in the south of India, which very different to the Indo-Aryan languages prevalent in the north of the country. Because of this, it was said by Western researchers in India that the generally darker-skinned Dravidian speakers constituted a genetically distinct race even though they posess Caucasiod skull-structure. Perhaps to enforce the British "divide and conquer", Dravidians were envisaged as early inhabitants of India who had been partially displaced and assimilated by Aryan language speaking populations.

The vedic legends speak of battle between Asuras and Devas. It is generally assumed that this was a reflection of actual battle for supermacy that took place when Aryans started entering the Indian sub-continent. However the Asuras are actually the Iranians and the Devas are the Indo-Aryans. The Dasarajna war has been completly misunderstood as some racial violence from Aryans to non-Aryans. It was the Indo-Aryans who declared that they are the true Aryans while the Iranians were not. This battles eventually ended with Aryans, led by King Sudas ( a Sudra king) establishing supermacy all over India and the Iranians moving onto what today is the Iranian Subcontinent.

Historical evidence does not point to the fact that Dravidians were the race who had created the Indus Valley Civilisation. It remained unanswered why there were Aryan symbols that appear on the Indus Valley seals (e.g. Swastika.) However, even thoug the Aryan langauges are said to belong to the Indo-European family and not of the Dravidian family, the root words are almost all the same. For example, 'land' is des, 'language' is basa and 'bread' is chapaati. What is most surprising is that the Dravidian languages contain words at least 50% of which are the same as Sanskrit words!

The term Dravidian is taken from the Sanskrit term Dravida. It was adopted following the publication of Robert Caldwell's Comparative grammar of the Dravidian or South-Indian family of languages (1856); a publication which established the language grouping as one of the major language groups of the world.

will write more abt it when I get more info abt the same

My knowledge is based on various sources on the net and the books I read. I don't know if we can actually debate on it as we don't know which facts to believe. I too studied Aryan invasion theory in that past and believed it but as time went by and referring to various articles and finds with proof I have come to the conclusion that it is a myth. Main thing is the language. All the Indian languages are based on Sanskrit. I am talking about the 'shudh bhasha' not the one influenced by Persian and other languages. The basis of all Indian language is 'Sanskrit'.

I will get back on this. I like what Tina, Prara, DF, SR posted and the proof provided.

If we start debating on what happened in history, we can go on forever and never come to a conclusion...

Perfect documentation is not available to approve or disprove this theory...

Originally posted by: caramelcj

If we start debating on what happened in history, we can go on forever and never come to a conclusion...

Perfect documentation is not available to approve or disprove this theory...

I concur to your thoughts. It is futile to debate on the same due to lack of authentic texts. The more facts I believe in points towards the whole theory as a myth. On the net we can google to read many facts on the same.

Originally posted by: caramelcj

If we start debating on what happened in history, we can go on forever and never come to a conclusion...

Perfect documentation is not available to approve or disprove this theory...

Very true! This debate can go on, because scientific proof of the other side being wrong is lacking. Googlers must have found one debate that originated in the year 2004 !! 😆
I always tend to believe that there were intruders and invaders, and some of them could have been aryans, but I fail to understand / accept that these so called aryans eradicated most of the civilizations of the world!
No wonder some people also believe that they were aliens who brought Vedic knowledge along. Other than that, there is the concept of "The Arctic home of Vedas", written by my favorite brilliant freedom fighter Lokmanya B G Tilak.

Anyway, since a geek is a geek is always a geek 🤓,
I found something that I would like to believe in! Those wanting to skip the scientific jabber 😆, basically, the first newspaper article suggests evidence to support introduction of europian genes mainly via domination and intrusion of males into the indian dravidian population. Apparently, the researchers also identified the time of intrusion being 3000 years ago.

The following geeky articles, comeparatively more reliable, are strongly in favor of providing differences in the genetic make up of Dravidians (mainly from southern states) and the so-called aryans (these groups studies maharashtrian cases)

I believe that there are differences, yet mere immigration and "love" at first sight 😉 is sufficient for mixing of heritage/ gene-pool! Differences in genetic make up is not evidence enough to suggest an Aryan Invasion! Even if Aryans were very loving people, they could have invaded Dravidian hearts 3000 years ago and bamm we get their genes! Who knows!!

Warning- The article is not lucid and probably unnecessary!

mQT

San Francisco Chronicle, 26 May 1999, Robert Cooke, Newsday (edited)

History of Ancient Indian Conquest Told in Modern Genes, Experts Say

hmmm!
The researchers, from the University of Utah and Andhra Pradesh University in India, used two sets of genes in their analyses.

Like an indelible signature enduring through a hundred generations, genes that entered India when conquering hordes swooped down from the north thousands of years ago are still there, and remain entrenched at the top of the caste system, scientists report. Analyses of the male Y chromosome, plus genes hidden in small cellular bodies called mitochondria, show that today's genetic patterns agree with accounts of ancient Indo-European warriors' conquering the Indian subcontinent.

warriors? conquering? did the DNA sample drop a sword or what🤢

The invaders apparently shoved the local men aside, ?? took their women and set up the rigid caste system that exists today. ?? Their descendants are still the elite within Hindu society.

INVADING CAUCASOIDS ??

Thus today's genetic patterns, the researchers explained, vividly reflect a historic event, or events, that occurred 3,000 or 4,000 years ago. The gene patterns ''are consistent with a historical scenario in which invading Caucasoids -- primarily males -- established the caste system and occupied the highest positions, placing the indigenous population, who were more similar to Asians, in lower caste positions.''

Out breeding definitely occured.. ! But Invasion??

More Reliable Source in comparison- GEEK Alert! Sorry, I think I am too tired and still here ..

1: 2004 Jan;49(1):174-5.< ="1.2"> < ="1.2">

• Characterization of TP53 microsatellite locus among selected ethnic populations of India.

• Ghosh A,
• Seshadri M.

Low level Radiation Studies Section, Bio-Science Group, Bhabha Atomic Research Center, Trombay, Mumbai-400 085, India.

POPULATION: A total of 253 individuals belonging to five ethnic populations of India were analyzed for pentanucleotide microsatellite TP53. These included Konkanasthas and Marathas (from Maharashtra, western India) representing Indo-Aryan lineage and Ezhavas, Nairs and Muslims (from Kerala, southwest India) representing Indo-Dravidian lineage. To the best of our knowledge, allele frequency data at TP53 microsatellite locus exists only for German Caucasians (1,2), Northern Portuguese (3) and West African from S. Tome e Principe (4); the present study is the first report on Asian populations.

Microsatellite diversity among three endogamous Tamil populations suggests their origin from a separate Dravidian genetic pool.

• Sitalaximi T,
• Trivedi R,
• Kashyap VK.

DNA Typing Unit. Central Forensic Science Laboratory, 30 Gorachand Road, Kolkata 700014, West Bengal, India.

The genetic profiles based on 15 autosomal microsatellite markers were analyzed among three socially distinct endogamous Dravidian populations: Tanjore Kallar, Vanniyar, and Pallar of Tamil Nadu, southern India, in order to understand their origin and the extent of genetic affinity and diversity among them. The phylogenetic dendrogram based on allele frequencies places them in a separate cluster, away from other compared Indo-European populations. The fit of the Harpending and Ward model of regression was found to be good and consistent with the extent of endogamy followed by the respective populations.

PMID: 14763604 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

PMID: 14979369 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]