Freedom of expression/Inflaming religious senti's - Page 20

Originally posted by: zorrro

well, not without risking your life in any case 😆 Not worth it. havent read the quran but it is supposed to be written in verses which itself makes interpretation difficult for the common people. So who are the ones who are supposed to know the correct interpretation? The uleman ?

Who decides?

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

If you tell someone "Your religion is inherently evil. To make things better you have to give it up." Then no matter how good they are, no matter how much they want to make a difference, no matter how much they want to make progressive changes ' they will give up and revert back. For a majority of humans it is virtually impossible to give up an identity they subscribed to from birth. They also succumb to the self fulfilling prophecy.

If you tell someone "Your religion is misdirected. We can work together to make it better for everyone". Then no matter how brainwashed they are, no matter how much hatred they harbor, no matter how fixed their world views ' they will show at least a miniscule interest in the opposing views. People are more receptive to change when they are assured the ability to hold onto something.

Once a person adapts rational and moral thought processes they steer away from harsh views towards moderate and liberal views. Eventually, they may discard religion altogether. But if step one is discarding a religion because it is inherently evil, majority of humans will not even give rational and moral thought process a chance. In an idea world there would be no religion. However, religion is very much a fact and majority of people cling to it dearly. We have to empathize with that if we wish to have people give rational and moral thought outside of religion a chance.

Not to pick up a fight, but a general observation of mine on the situation you mention. 😊 I myself am a fan of making small changes which changes the big picture gradually, and ideally it should work, but I have experienced something different in this case.

I think people consider religion to be something that cannot be changed. You don't even get to why, it just cannot. I come from a Hindu family, so I can only talk about that. My family and friends will agree about the absurdity of some stories. There are countless examples, but when seen logically some seem laughable. And some characters are not as perfect as they are made out to be. When I point that out, I would clearly see a look that is nearly equal to them agreeing. But then they will discard the analysis with a look of confusion, as if they are having some inner turmoil. I see that people find it easy to not question in the case of religion, because maybe they can't defend the dogmas even to themselves.

Same is the condition with rituals. They agree there is no logic behind it. But they will do it nevertheless. It's like something that has been with us for so long that people associate it with their identity. Losing it will be as if someone took out a part of them. They would keep logic at back seat and will follow unquestioningly. They will say we are not smart enough to question God. Different people have different reasons. Maybe someone was a big devotee and can't come to face the fact that it was all a lie. Some people keep God beyond logic and so on. But whatever the reason, this hinders rational thinking. People will agree that it doesn't sound rational but will do it anyway. That second part is what makes modification difficult if not impossible.

I would have been happy if people took changes step by step. But that's not what I have been seeing in the field of religion. People either cling to it, or when they give preference to their own thoughts they discard it completely. I don't see people following the middle ground, at least not many people. 😊

Originally posted by: Freethinker112

And still you don't recognize that there is a problem?

I've read several religious texts – The Bible, Quran, Bhagvad Gita, Tao Te Ching, Analects of Confucius and more. They all have one thing in common: Snooze Fest. The language is so dense and incomprehensible, the narrative is so dull and uninteresting, the prose so lack luster that I'm surprised that sleeping mills even have a market. All you need to do is pick your religious poison. I just cannot fathom how any normal human being can read through it with an alert mind, genuine interest and actually truly understand the garble.

My theory is that religion is like a nightmare of a college class. You have the utter nonsense textbook (the holy book) which no one comprehends. You have an even more useless jack ass professor (the priests etc.) who is to proud to admit that he does not know jack shit about anything (what does the book mean) and too evil that he enjoys torturing students with impossible homework (You cannot haz bacon cheezburgerz) and shitty grades (an you shall still go to hell). And you have a class full of students (followers) who deep down know the textbook makes no sense, that the professor is an idiot. But they grin and bear it because they are desperate to pass (gain salvation) and are too lazy to take a different class (think) and make up their own bullshit (pretend to know) to do the homework and pass exams and get that degree. (delude themselves about going to heaven/attaining nirvana).

To be honest though – on the snooze scale the Quran tops the list. No offense to Muslims. I never thought anything could ever top the Uniform Commerce Code for that in the history of mankind, but ladies and gentlemen the miracle of the Quran is that it beats even the UCC by miles. And all the lawyers in the world could not ever come up with a contract that could dream of topping that, even if the contract stretched for infinite pages.

Originally posted by: Freethinker112

And still you don't recognize that there is a problem?

Originally posted by: Freethinker112

I don't see people following the middle ground, at least not many people. 😊

Originally posted by: zorrro

what made you reach that conclusion? the emoticon 😲 😃

We have had enough discussions umpteen times on that topic with predictable results. A tragic comedy or a comic tragedy 🤪

Originally posted by: zorrro

I see different. I hardly see anyone folow all the tenets of a religion coletely. That would be a herculean task for any person in today's world. Nor do I see anyone completely disregard it as some of it has deep roots in our psyche and surfaces every now and then. 😊

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

^^

And that is my biggest problem with your interpretation ' you make it sound like Islam is the only religion that supports polygamy & pedophilia, condemns homosexuals etc. That is absolutely and utterly false.