Torturing of suspects and criminals - Page 2

Hypothetical question, if there is a nuclear bomb about to go off, and the suspect knows its whereabouts but disinclines to reveal its location.. is it wrong to use torture?.. a person who has no regard for life at all, should be given human rights?

Originally posted by: Emptiness

Hypothetical question, if there is a nuclear bomb about to go off, and the suspect knows its whereabouts but disinclines to reveal its location.. is it wrong to use torture?.. a person who has no regard for life at all, should be given human rights?

If we were absolutely sure that the suspect knows, and if we were absolutely sure that torture would reveal the truthful information - then I would say go ahead fry the fellow.

Most torture is based on the supposition that the suspect probably knows, and that if so they would tell the truth.

A person tortured
- either knows
- either does not know

A person who knows when tortured will
- either lie
- either keep quiet
- tell the truth

Most brainwashed and hardened people will lie or keep quiet. Most people will only tell the truth if there is something substantial they can gain from it. In case of terrorist they are doomed either way so the incentive for the truth is further minimized

A person who does not know will
- either lie
- either keep quiet

They have no choice. Most likely they will keep throwing BS information to stave of agony as long as possible.

With intelligence and negotiations again the person
- either knows
- does not know

In this situation person who knows
- will keep quiet
- tell the truth

If there is a good deal on the table, any selfish individual will sell anyone to save themselves. Without the treat of torture, the truth can be teased out of people in intelligent ways because they let their guard down. Thats how they found and tracked Osama's courier

In this situation the person who does not know
- will keep giving more and more information to prove themselves

They have no duress to lie or keep quiet. They actually have opportunity to negotiate and prove themselves.

Torture has a higher risk of false leads, incorrect information, excess expenditure and high risk of innocent harm

Intelligence has lower risk of false leads, higher probability of efficiency, and low risk of innocent harm.

People lie and deceive creatively, until we are more creative and deceitful then them. Thats my pragmatic reason why torture is wrong.

Q1) What if there are a group of suspects, only one of who, we are absolutely sure, knows that a bomb is about to go off in a crowded place, but not sure which one in the group has access to that piece of information?

Q2) What if there are a group of suspects, some of who, we are absolutely sure, are planning to explode a bomb in a crowded place with the help of their cronies outside the interrogation cells, but not sure which ones in the group have access to that piece of information?

Q3) What if there is a country, some of who, we are absolutely sure, are planning to explode bombs in crowded places in other countries, with the help of their sympathizers, but not sure which ones in the country have access to that piece of information?

There are many other methods to get info out.
Abu Jandal ( who had been closest to Osama) cooperated after being given sugarfree cookies. Read in " How to make Terrorists talk"

http://www.influenceatwork.com/Media/RBC/How_to_Make_Terrorists_Talk_with_balloon_comments.pdf

Once they have built a strong mental block some may refuse to talk no matter what as they are all ready to die. Perhaps torture should be the last resort.

Originally posted by: K.Resurrected.

Q1) What if there are a group of suspects, only one of who, we are absolutely sure, knows that a bomb is about to go off in a crowded place, but not sure which one in the group has access to that piece of information?

Q2) What if there are a group of suspects, some of who, we are absolutely sure, are planning to explode a bomb in a crowded place with the help of their cronies outside the interrogation cells, but not sure which ones in the group have access to that piece of information?

Q3) What if there is a country, some of who, we are absolutely sure, are planning to explode bombs in crowded places in other countries, with the help of their sympathizers, but not sure which ones in the country have access to that piece of information?

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

That is incorrect information. A false argument used by people who want US to continue torture.

Have you seen Leon Pannetta's interviews, read his briefs, his letter to John McCain? He clearly lays out how the information was obtained through high level intelligence procedures and NOT inhuman treatment of prisoners.

I hope so...but I still have my doubts..

Originally posted by: K.Resurrected.

Q1) What if there are a group of suspects, only one of who, we are absolutely sure, knows that a bomb is about to go off in a crowded place, but not sure which one in the group has access to that piece of information?

Q2) What if there are a group of suspects, some of who, we are absolutely sure, are planning to explode a bomb in a crowded place with the help of their cronies outside the interrogation cells, but not sure which ones in the group have access to that piece of information?

Q3) What if there is a country, some of who, we are absolutely sure, are planning to explode bombs in crowded places in other countries, with the help of their sympathizers, but not sure which ones in the country have access to that piece of information?

Interesting questions.

It often is like a logic problem to deduce, who is plotting what, with whom, against whom, where, how, why and to what effect. If one could torture out a solution to a logic problem, then so be it, that's the only recourse. I'm inclined to think that intelligence is the better way of solving this logical nightmare. Not because I have any sympathy for evil doers, but simply because I don't think we can really torture a solution out of anyone.

^Have you seen this film, Unthinkable?.. I recommend it, check it out.