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Posted: 15 years ago
#1
Can't remember having/seeing any discussion on this subject in this forum (the 'search topic' thing isn't working), even though it has become a widely discussed global issue in the recent times. So what are your views on it? Should it be banned, restricted to a certain extent (like monitored by the government), or totally permitted? If it is regulated to an extent, then where do we draw the line? Should human beings be allowed to be cloned too, or should it be done only to animals/plants? Does one have the right to have children irrespective of how it is formed? What are its advantages and disadvantages? Will the society be benefited from it in the long run as expected by many? Will cloned human beings face any social repercussions? Will they be treated as lesser mortals or second class citizens? From a religious / theological perspective, is it equivalent to 'playing God' as said by many?
Edited by PhoeniXof_Hades - 15 years ago

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mr.ass thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#2
Finally, a topic which sounds interesting.

Well, I don't think people are able to clone organisms properly,ie, the clones lifespan are all worthless. But let us assume that they finally did clone clones with proper lifespans, for the sake of debating.

The first question we should ask ourselves is "What is the objective of cloning?"
344471 thumbnail
Posted: 15 years ago
#3
^^ You mean why it is done? I think it has got more to do with scientists' never-ending curiosity over anything else. Though it can be beneficial if done for the right reasons and in moderation - for instance, cloning body parts can actually save ones life; it also takes away the need of organ donation and transplantation, which is quite a complicated process.
Edited by PhoeniXof_Hades - 15 years ago
mr.ass thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#4

Originally posted by: PhoeniXof_Hades

^^ You mean why it is done? I think it has got more to do with scientists' never-ending curiosity over anything else. Though it can be beneficial if done for the right reasons and in moderation - for instance, cloning body parts can actually save ones life; it also takes away the need of organ donation and transplantation, which is quite a complicated process.



cloning is quite a complicated process too! 😆

Are those the only benefits of cloning?
344471 thumbnail
Posted: 15 years ago
#5

Originally posted by: old-black-joe


cloning is quite a complicated process too! 😆



The aim is to make cloning a simple and easy process, whereas organ transplantation is most likely to remain a complicated one, mostly due to problems with finding suitable organs. Also, certain organs like the heart or liver cannot be taken from another person unless s/he dies. Cloning technology can (theoretically) clone similar organs and substitute the dysfunctional ones.

Originally posted by: old-black-joe

Are those the only benefits of cloning?



No, there are other ones; not so sure about them though. Hypothetically, cloning can be used to alter the genetic structure of animals/plants/humans; if positive changes can be brought forth, then it will be beneficial for the society. Though the thought of human beings becoming a totally man-made thing is a little scary to me.
Edited by PhoeniXof_Hades - 15 years ago
mr.ass thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#6

Originally posted by: PhoeniXof_Hades



The aim is to make cloning a simple and easy process, whereas organ transplantation is most likely to remain a complicated one, mostly due to problems with finding suitable organs. Also, certain organs like the heart or liver cannot be taken from another person unless s/he dies. Cloning technology can (theoretically) clone similar organs and substitute the dysfunctional ones.
I see. Theoretically is the key word here. I am all for it, but doubt it will be very affordable initially. But then again, nothing innovative ever is, is it?



No, there are other ones; not so sure about them though. Hypothetically, cloning can be used to alter the genetic structure of animals/plants/humans; if positive changes can be brought forth, then it will be beneficial for the society. Though the thought of human beings becoming a totally man-made thing is a little scary to me.



totally? I doubt it. I doubt that much money will be spent in altering every human being, if thats what you mean. wait, here's an article:


There are many ways in which in which human cloning is expected to benefit mankind. Below is a list that is far from complete.

Rejuvenation.

Dr. Richard Seed, one of the leading proponents of human cloning technology, suggests that it may someday be possible to reverse the aging process because of what we learn from cloning.
Human cloning technology could be used to reverse heart attacks. Scientists believe that they may be able to treat heart attack victims by cloning their healthy heart cells and injecting them into the areas of the heart that have been damaged. Heart disease is the number one killer in the United States and several other industrialized countries.


There has been a breakthrough with human stem cells.

Embryonic stem cells can be grown to produce organs or tissues to repair or replace damaged ones. Skin for burn victims, brain cells for the brain damaged, spinal cord cells for quadriplegics and paraplegics, hearts, lungs, livers, and kidneys could be produced. By combining this technology with human cloning technology it may be possible to produce needed tissue for suffering people that will be free of rejection by their immune systems. Conditions such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, diabetes, heart failure, degenerative joint disease, and other problems may be made curable if human cloning and its technology are not banned.


Infertility.

With cloning, infertile couples could have children. Despite getting a fair amount of publicity in the news current treatments for infertility, in terms of percentages, are not very successful. One estimate is that current infertility treatments are less than 10 percent successful. Couples go through physically and emotionally painful procedures for a small chance of having children. Many couples run out of time and money without successfully having children. Human cloning could make it possible for many more infertile couples to have children than ever before possible.


Plastic, reconstructive, and cosmetic surgery.

Because of human cloning and its technology the days of silicone breast implants and other cosmetic procedures that may cause immune disease should soon be over. With the new technology, instead of using materials foreign to the body for such procedures, doctors will be able to manufacture bone, fat, connective tissue, or cartilage that matches the patients tissues exactly. Anyone will able to have their appearance altered to their satisfaction without the leaking of silicone gel into their bodies or the other problems that occur with present day plastic surgery. Victims of terrible accidents that deform the face should now be able to have their features repaired with new, safer, technology. Limbs for amputees may be able to be regenerated.


Defective genes.

The average person carries 8 defective genes inside them. These defective genes allow people to become sick when they would otherwise remain healthy. With human cloning and its technology it may be possible to ensure that we no longer suffer because of our defective genes.
Down's syndrome. Those women at high risk for Down's syndrome can avoid that risk by cloning.
Tay-Sachs disease. This is an autosomal recessive genetic disorder could be prevented by using cloning to ensure that a child does not express the gene for the disorder


Liver failure.


We may be able to clone livers for liver transplants


Kidney failure.


We may be able to clone kidneys for kidney transplants


Leukemia.


We should be able to clone the bone marrow for children and adults suffering from leukemia. This is expected to be one of the first benefits to come from cloning technology.


Cancer.

We may learn how to switch cells on and off through cloning and thus be able to cure cancer. Scientists still do not know exactly how cells differentiate into specific kinds of tissue, nor to they understand why cancerous cells lose their differentiation. Cloning, at long last, may be the key to understanding differentiation and cancer.


Cystic fibrosis.


We may be able to produce effective genetic therapy against cystic fibrosis. Ian Wilmut and colleagues are already working on this problem.
spinal cord injury. We may learn to grow nerves or the spinal cord back again when they are injured. Quadriplegics might be able to get out of their wheelchairs and walk again. Christopher Reeves, the man who played Superman, might be able to walk again.


Testing for genetic disease.


Cloning technology can be used to test for and perhaps cure genetic diseases.
The above list only scratches the surface of what human cloning technology can do for mankind. The suffering that can be relieved is staggering. This new technology heralds a new era of unparalleled advancement in medicine if people will release their fears and let the benefits begin. Why should another child die from leukemia when if the technology is allowed we should be able to cure it in a few years time?



mr.ass thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#7
those benefits seem really far away though.
blue-ice. thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#8
Cloning is like playing God...I don't like the idea.......
I can understand that they want to grow organs like liver etc from someones cells to save a life but I don't understand the purpose of cloning😕

Excellent topic BTW POH👏
return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#9

Originally posted by: PhoeniXof_Hades

Can't remember having/seeing any discussion on this subject in this forum (the 'search topic' thing isn't working), even though it has become a widely discussed global issue in the recent times. So what are your views on it? Should it be banned, restricted to a certain extent (like monitored by the government), or totally permitted? If it is regulated to an extent, then where do we draw the line? Should human beings be allowed to be cloned too, or should it be done only to animals/plants? Does one have the right to have children irrespective of how it is formed? What are its advantages and disadvantages? Will the society be benefited from it in the long run as expected by many? Will cloned human beings face any social repercussions? Will they be treated as lesser mortals or second class citizens? From a religious / theological perspective, is it equivalent to 'playing God' as said by many?



Horticultural cloning has been done for a long time. Many varieties and cultivars are the result of horticultural cloning. It has been useful in developing plants hardy to insects, herbicides increase yield, grow food crops in poorer soils etc. For example genetically modified corn and soy beans are roundup resistant so you can douse the field with herbicide and all competing weeds and plants will be killed, but the crop will be hardy. I find that it is useful to resolve some food issues we face. So far there have been no extreme repercussions. However, there is the loss of natural species, natural eco-systems and the invasiveness of certain cultivars.

The animal DNA is much more complicated than a plant DNA and so far we have only made small steps in cloning. As OBJ pointed out there are several benefits to cloning like organ transplants as well as curing cancer and diseases. Due to the immense benefit that cloning can have to humans and medical science cloning should be encouraged. However, it should be closely monitored to ensure that scientists don't get too carried away. I think cloning entire animals and entire humans safely to lead a normal biological life is too far out now and should be out of consideration. Cloning should focus on medical science only.

Human and animal cloning. Its too far out there and I don't delve on it too much. They clone humans in baby factories in Brave New World and the thought of that just fascinates me. I mean how cool is that insta babies, no effort. And I'm talking about the nine months and pushing effort here. The Brave New World sounds totally awesome to me sans that weirdness about alphas, betas, deltas and other social conditioning.

Now some people feel that cloning will be a way to gain immortality. That is a thought where I am more intrigued with. As each part of a person withers away you replace it with a cloned part. If the brain is replaced with a cloned brain - what will be implications - what off memory, emotions, a lifetime of conditioning and personality development? Can cloning really stop aging/dying? Or say a dying person clones themselves and relives from a certain age. Is that really immortality - has our memory, feeling and consciousness also cloned. Where does our consciousness fit into the cloned bits of us - can consciousness be cloned?

As for playing God, pish tosh. If God did not want us to play God, we would not have received the powers to play God. Secondly where is the line? I mean when does the fiddling with nature become playing God? Should we stop taking tylenol? Let people die instead of all modern surgeries and medicine? Finally cloning is hardly playing God is it. Its like taking lego blocks of nature and trying to see what you can stack it to be. At least for now we have absolutely no freaking idea or clue what its going to turn out to be and if it will work. Jeez give God some credit God's creation has evolved and sustained for so long. (Unless of course life earth took its own form. Like Gods own evil Cyberdyne system running with a mind of its own. God created, and then went WTF Holy shizzle why wont this thing stop or end. No no no thats not what I wanted abort, retry, reboot. Man this life thing sucks)

Other than that we all play God. We all create life and mold it in our own image. We expect our creation to unconditionally love and revere us, as by creating life - life is now indebted to us. We give them commandments to follow and pass on. And when they displease us with their lack of faith, we smite them with plagues and punishment. But in the end we have no control. Life takes its own form. Life evolves on its own. It believes and follows what it wants, develops in its own direction. Our creation of life is just one small bit of the whole process. Some times I think at some surreptitious psychological level, our faith in God as the all powerful - is in someway to convince ourselves that we are more important that we really are.


413342 thumbnail
Posted: 15 years ago
#10
As far as human cloning is concerned, we need to ask ourselves how many unsuccessful attempts we are willing to "grin and bear" before coming up with a successful formula. A clone is also a human being and we don't know how many will survive and how many will die early. Also, not sure how many embryos would be destroyed on the road to 'success'. So far we have tolerated (wrong as it is, in my eyes) experimentation on animals. Now experimentation on humans?! I don't know.

Also, we will be taking away the diversity in DNA. Implications there could be huge.

Request denied from my side until it could be proven that the damage would be minimal. But then, you can't dole out assurances unless you try it out. Catch-22.

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