The australia issue: - Page 8

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return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#71
Affirmative action is not the same as reservation.


Compare Grutter v. Bollinger against Gratz v. Bollinger.
Gratz won because U of M, 20 point awarded to minorities was considered illegal. (quota is also illegal)
Grutter lost because U of M, can legally make racial preferences to fairly represent racial breakdown of population.

Although many feel that Grutter also should have won.
debayon thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#72

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Affirmative action is not the same as reservation.


Compare Grutter v. Bollinger against Gratz v. Bollinger.
Gratz won because U of M, 20 point awarded to minorities was considered illegal. (quota is also illegal)
Grutter lost because U of M, can legally make racial preferences to fairly represent racial breakdown of population.

Although many feel that Grutter also should have won.

I have no clue what all this is.....what I do know is that affirmative action is giving African-American people a priority in colleges and job sites and reservations is the same thing.
return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#73

Those are Supreme Court cases on affirmative action. Giving anyone priority due to race is illegal. The Supreme Court has ruled that reservation is illegal so is adding additional points Affirmative action is one of the most misunderstood concepts.

If a college says 5% of all students must be minority. Or a workplace says 5% of all employees must be minority. It is illegal.

If a college in admission criteria gives 20 points to good SAT scores, 20 points to extracurricular activity, 20 points to good GPA and 10 points for minority – the 10 points for minority is illegal. Similarly an employer who weighs minority status along with qualifications is committing discrimination.

Affirmative action is to give equal opportunity. Let's say for law school admission, statistically in the national student pool 10% of [b]qualified students[b] are African Americans. However, the law school has only 5% of African American students. In this case the school is not equally representing the African Americans. The school may have to forego some other applicants so that student demographics is more representative to a national pool. Sometimes it may not be having enough black student applicants and it has to find a way to get more. However, if 25% of students are African American then the school is overdoing it and it has to favor other students till the balance is sought.

Although affirmative action is misunderstood and abused. That is why many people feel that even affirmative action should be eliminated and pure meritocracies should be established
debayon thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#74
^^ Which is the same thing as reservations in India. A certain percentage of seats are reserved for SC's, ST's who wouldn't have been well represented had there not been these reservations. These reservations give equal opportunities to them.
return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#75

Originally posted by: debayon

^^ Which is the same thing as reservations in India. A certain percentage of seats are reserved for SC's, ST's who wouldn't have been well represented had there not been these reservations. These reservations give equal opportunities to them.



No it is different. You simply cannot hold a certain percentage of seats/jobs for a minority. It is against the law. Any school or business reserving seats like there are in India is breaking the law.
debayon thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#76

Originally posted by: return_to_hades



No it is different. You simply cannot hold a certain percentage of seats/jobs for a minority. It is against the law. Any school or business reserving seats like there are in India is breaking the law.

Oh, I see what you mean. It does not ensure the African-Americans the seats like it does in India. In that case, yeah, affirmative action is much better because in reservations, the SC's, ST's etc.. won't have to work very hard and they are still provided with a seat.
den1 thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#77

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Those are Supreme Court cases on affirmative action. Giving anyone priority due to race is illegal. The Supreme Court has ruled that reservation is illegal so is adding additional points Affirmative action is one of the most misunderstood concepts.

If a college says 5% of all students must be minority. Or a workplace says 5% of all employees must be minority. It is illegal.

If a college in admission criteria gives 20 points to good SAT scores, 20 points to extracurricular activity, 20 points to good GPA and 10 points for minority ' the 10 points for minority is illegal. Similarly an employer who weighs minority status along with qualifications is committing discrimination.

Affirmative action is to give equal opportunity. Let's say for law school admission, statistically in the national student pool 10% of [b]qualified students[b] are African Americans. However, the law school has only 5% of African American students. In this case the school is not equally representing the African Americans. The school may have to forego some other applicants so that student demographics is more representative to a national pool. Sometimes it may not be having enough black student applicants and it has to find a way to get more. However, if 25% of students are African American then the school is overdoing it and it has to favor other students till the balance is sought.

Although affirmative action is misunderstood and abused. That is why many people feel that even affirmative action should be eliminated and pure meritocracies should be established


i think this system is just putting the reservation system in different words,the OBC quota in IITs is also done on the same lines ,increasing the total no of seats so that General Category candidates are not hurt,and they get the same no of seats as before

the gratz v. bollinger 2003 was obviously unfair how can u give free marks for just being from minority
413185 thumbnail
Posted: 15 years ago
#78

Originally posted by: den1


quota system is ok in my opanion......even blacks have quota in U.S. and S.A........the problem is that there is too much quota[50pc]..which leaves the worthy candidate suffering......and the quota is not reaching the right ppl,nobody availing quota is from BPL



yeah I think I get your point... basically resevations exist everywhere... in that case i feel the whole world should give more patronage to the middle class..
blue-ice. thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#79
should we cut off all ties with Australia?
debayon thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
#80

Originally posted by: blue-ice

should we cut off all ties with Australia?

I believe we should. Otherwise, they don't seem to understand.

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