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Angie

@Angie12

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#121

Originally posted by: Angie12

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Angie

@Angie12

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#122

Originally posted by: misti73

And the sun is out now.😃 I t looks like I am giving London's weather forecast to all of you.😳

Myra/Misti, enjoy the sun. I like your weather forecast.

We are having a very humid day but it is going to rain in the evening. I do like rains as long as it is not the depressing kind - cold, drizzling. But if it is thunderstorms in the warm weather, I just love that weather. The caveat is that it should be my day off. Unfortunately whenever we have got really proper rain, it was my office day. So not happy about that part.

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First_Light

@First_Light

Explorer

Posted: 11 years ago

#123

Originally posted by: Angie12

Angie I agree with what you say about Karna. I had a lot of sympathy for him and felt for all the injustices meted out to him. I even liked the fact that he felt honor bound to stand by Duryodhana. But for me he crossed over to the dark side in the "dyuta sabha", the game of dice. At that point he became like Duryodhana, vindictive and mean and ready to commit grave crimes in the name of revenge. I lost all sympathy for him at that point. I haven't analyzed Kunti's motivations for revealing Karna his true identity just before the war. But whether it was to save hime or make him weak, I felt he deserved everything he got from that point onwards. And after he participated in the killing of Abimanyu he wasn't even brave anymore. He had nothing more to be proud of.

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chitsss

@chitsss

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

#124

Originally posted by: Angie12

Angie you have said it quite right ... Ram was the perfect human being with his ideals and imperfections! You raise avalid point about Tulsi Das's writing being devotional and hence Ram coming out white washed in his version.

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Angie

@Angie12

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#125

Originally posted by: misti73

To be fair to Ekta did not say adaptation, she said that she was inspired. Since Sense and Sensibilty was mentioned, I checked out the first few episodes. At that time the male lead was not introduced...but the characters of S&S were there. I am wary of watching any adaptation of any book on TV. Actually the same holds for movie too...my problem is that they say adaptation but then show something which has no link with the book. It is ok if they say that it is inspired from it or it's the maker's POV...but the word adaptation makes me very wary. I liked the actor playing the parallel male lead (Colonel Brandon in the book). I also like Sriti Jha...I like her acting.

So you like Andre Davies...Northanger Abbey that I watched over the weekend was based on his adaptation.

Ekta's favorite word is inspiration. She has done the same to YHM. It is pretty loud and garish, but at least there are no pretentions of this being a great show. Her purpose is to make money and if historical characters or books inspire her in making money, then so be it. But have to say that Ekta has ruined the taste of an entire generation of soap viewers. Can audience like any of the subtle shows anymore?

Misti, I too have the same feelings where I rarely like any adaptation of books. Forrest Gump and Namesake were the exception where I liked the screen versions more than the book versions.

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First_Light

@First_Light

Explorer

Posted: 11 years ago

#126

O Angie, I'm loving your interpretations of the epics and the characters therein. I love to revisit these stories over and over and particularly like reading the various interpretations. Not because they are great stories or particularly nice ones. But because they are still relevant today. I feel you cannot truly appreciate the present until you understand the past. So I like to visit them just one more time, understand them one more time and appreciate them one more time, and again. I've been doing a little reading lately and I'll join in the discussion a little later. This discussion is seriously yummy!

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chitsss

@chitsss

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

#127

Originally posted by: First_Light
O Angie, I'm loving your interpretations of the epics and the characters therein. I love to revisit these stories over and over and particularly like reading the various interpretations. Not because they are great stories or particularly nice ones. But because they are still relevant today. I feel you cannot truly appreciate the present until you understand the past. So I like to visit them just one more time, understand them one more time and appreciate them one more time, and again. I've been doing a little reading lately and I'll join in the discussion a little later. This discussion is seriously yummy!

Tina you have so aptly described the relevance of past in the present. I have to agree abt Angies interpretation too, makes me want togo back and read them all over again.

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First_Light

@First_Light

Explorer

Posted: 11 years ago

#128

Originally posted by: chitsss

Tina you have so aptly described the relevance of past in the present. I have to agree abt Angies interpretation too, makes me want togo back and read them all over again.

Thanks Chithra! I'm so glad you feel the same way!

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jia.astk

@jia.astk

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

#129

@Angie: I am not saying Ram is not perfect or fearless, but just wont completely feel that he can be called as noble. I haven't read Tulsidas Ramayan, but I read in another story from south India that Sita was hidden in fire during their Vanavas.So, he asked duplicate Sita to do Agni Pariskha so that he can get the original Sita back. This could have been written to justify his actions about Agni pariksha.I like your interpretation of him.

But like you said all idealists make their families suffer. Rama is a man of actions where as Krishna was only a man of words.

I feel Mahabharat is still relevant today like Tina said, Vyasa wrote so many stories altogether in one place and they were way ahead of their time. Or it is possible that all these atrocities/adharmas were actually done in that era. Karna was not born out of wedlock, Draupadi having 5 husbands(recently I read this tradition is still being followed in Madhya Pradesh), Draupadi's cheerharan, Yudhistir putting his brothers, wife at stake in the game of dice, Drona asking Eklavya his thumb who learnt archery by just watching it so that he is not competition to his favorite student Arjuna etc., Lots of politics..by Shakuni and Bheeshma's vow to protect Hastinapur till his death. All these were given a color of Dharma...so if people are bound by dharma and can do all such misdeeds then what is 'Adharma'?!

In both the eras people did lot of 'adharma's' so Rama showed it to people how to follow the dharma in Treta Yuga, but by the time Krishna came it was not possible to teach people by actions so he just taught them in Dwapara Yuga. Then came Kaliyuga..where even teaching wouldn't work😕.

@Chitra: I didn't know Draupadi also had chose Karna in the beginning..hmmm. I read that she said 5 times 'Pati' , so she got 5 husbands. Yes 'Dalapathi' was the story of Karna-Duryodhana and Arjua (forgot to add Duryodhana). Mommuty played Duryodhana and Arjuna was done by Arvida swamy. Maniratnam's adaptation was so good with soulful music by Illayaraja.

@Misti: There is another adaption in Indian Cinema for Jane Austin's Sense and Sensibility by Rajiv Menon, the movie is "Kandukondain Kandukondain" in Tamil, there is a 3rd sister too here. I thought there are only 2 sisters in the original novel! I like Forest Gump, that was my first movie of Tom Hanks 😊.

Btw., I saw Highway yesterday, it was a poignant movie which explored human relationships where the heroine develops 'Stockholm syndrome' for her abductor.

Edited by jia.astk - 11 years ago

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Angie

@Angie12

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

#130

Originally posted by: First_Light

Angie I agree with what you say about Karna. I had a lot of sympathy for him and felt for all the injustices meted out to him. I even liked the fact that he felt honor bound to stand by Duryodhana. But for me he crossed over to the dark side in the "dyuta sabha", the game of dice. At that point he became like Duryodhana, vindictive and mean and ready to commit grave crimes in the name of revenge. I lost all sympathy for him at that point. I haven't analyzed Kunti's motivations for revealing Karna his true identity just before the war. But whether it was to save hime or make him weak, I felt he deserved everything he got from that point onwards. And after he participated in the killing of Abimanyu he wasn't even brave anymore. He had nothing more to be proud of.

Tina, Kanha pointed these crimes of his when Karn berated him for telling Arjun to kill him while he was unarmed. He was talking about adharm and then Krishna pointed out that he did not deserve to talk about dharam when he himself had gone to the dark side. Still I feel a lot of sympathy for him because Duryodhan is the only one who gave him acceptance and treated him equally. Pandavs especially Arjun considered him a rival and hence used Karn's low caste to humiliate him. And Kunti never could muster courage to publicly acknowledge him as her son. But Kunti herself was a victim too. Her husband had died and she was dependent on Drithrastra to provide her and her sons the shelter. So probably she was not in a position to claim Karn as her son. By the time her sons became strong, it was too late.

So Karn turning dark is not that unusual. When a proud, talented person bears a lot of humiliation from childhood, they can turn to the dark side. I don't know if you have read the story of the serial killer Angulimaal. It is a Buddhist tale about this young bright kid who was treated unfairly and then he turned a serial killer until Buddha reformed him. The irony is that he was killed by the mob just when he turned a new leaf and started atoning for his sins.

And Karn had lot of good qualities too. He did a lot of charity and except for these points in his life, he did not do anything wrong. So I still consider him a grey character rather than a dark character. But then Mahabharat had mostly grey characters and rarely any black or white characters. Few exceptions were Shisupal, Jarasandha, Dushashan (though his loyalty to his brother can be considered his good quality) etc.