Why no heroine oriented commercial entertainers in BW anymore? - Page 3

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642126 thumbnail
Posted: 3 years ago
#21

Thanks for reminding. But if I am not mistaken it was only TWMR which was huge at BO. TWM was a hit but a surprise one and not large in scale of BO collections.

It was out and out entertainer series for sure and for a mass audience. Unlike offbeat, A rated, niche films or typical rape/domestic violence/ crimes against women type films.

Such hits and heroine dominated mass entertainers are still rare, which is weird given how audience of today is more open minded and less conservative and open to watch content regardless or hero or heroine dominating the scene.

Edited by atominis - 3 years ago
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Posted: 3 years ago
#22

Women have sort of disappeared from commercial Cinema. Even In movies like K3G, Kal ho na ho, Ajab Prem ki Gajab kahani Women still had prominent roles but today there are either low budget female centric movies or a small role in Big Commercial movie.

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Posted: 3 years ago
#23
That's why I mentioned in my comment that these films are not heroine dominated. But they do satisfy my craving for heroines thrashing the villains. Even if the films weren't successful.Kareena in Asoka, Kriti in Panipat, all qualify in that regard. Even Jodhaa from JA fits the prototype. Mastani was conceived as 'the' heroine of Bajirao-Mastani. Nevermind Priyanka taking the wind out of her sails with her performance. The film's title does not mention Kashi. So long as the heroine gets the chance to shine. Not be a flower pot. Hema gets the chance to thrash the leftover villains in Haath ki Safai even with two heroes- Vinod Khanna and Randhir Kapoor.
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Posted: 3 years ago
#24

To be able to pull off a commercially successful film liek Seeta Aur Geeta in today's age, actresses would have to build some credibility around their names.

Then only the producers would put money in their films, and then only the audience would run to theaters to watch their films.


That's why I mentioned Taapsee because she is trying to build credibility for herself, and I applaud her for efforts. If her movies could've been labelled as "off-beat" or "artsy" by 90s standards then, than we should be thanking our stars that this trend is over now and we're not in the 90s.

There have been several successful ventures in the last decade like Kahani, Mardaani, Piku, TWMR, Neerja, Dear Zindagi, Mom, Secret Superstar, Happy Bhaag Jayegi, Barelli Ki Barfi, Tumhari Sulu, Hichki, Stree, Pari, Raazi,Veeray Di Wedding, Mission Mangal etc.👏👏

All of these were critically and commercially succesfull.

And if you look at Dangal. It can be called female-oriented film. The focus was on the girls and Aamir was not playing the usual BW film hero. The audience came for Aamir, but stayed for the story. And it was one of the biggest hits ever in Bollywood. And it also fits your "commercial entertainer" label.👏


So, a good film is a good film now, PERIOD! Stop putting labels on films and then you would see the bigger picture.

It's not like actresses or Bollywood is not trying from their side :-

Kajol tried Helicopter Eeela but failed.
Taapsee & Bhumi tried Saand Ki Aankh but failed.
Sonakshi tried Khandani Shafakhana but failed.
Kiara did Indoo Ki Jawani but failed.
Jhanvi did Roohi but failed.

They were all supposed to be "commercial entertainers" but they just didn't work because they were bad films.

On OTT, Sanya Malhotra did Paglait and Kirti Sanon just did Mimi. And they turned out to be good.👍🏼

Indian audience isn't very kind. Even Ayushman had to do Article 15 and Andhdhun to let people know that he is also a good actor. Because a section of the audience was just ready to diss his acting capabilities, because he was only doing certain "formula" films.😳

Edited by diasingh2 - 3 years ago
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Posted: 3 years ago
#25

only desh premee / bhakts / biopics are being made

642126 thumbnail
Posted: 3 years ago
#26

Good observations. I like 70s, 80s and early 90s films a lot for showing heroines kick ass of villains more often. Or be a bit villainous themselves.

Today's audience is perhaps less religious so it will not like films made on goddesses such as Kali mata. Otherwise I would have loved to see decently made films on warrior goddesses as well. I saw Ramya Krishnan as Ma Kali in a South film and was blown away by her acting. Powerful performance it was.

If not goddesses, I think people can appreciate female spies, detectives, cops, double agents, or simply someone who is in position of leadership and activism and can defend herself and her family when needed. Or an obsessive villain like Kajol was in Gupt.

Scenes of Kriti, Ash, Deepika in films you mentioned are far and few in between. Left me wanting for more. I totally loved Deepika scenes defending her kid in Bajirao Mastani. She captured the fierceness and desperation very well.

That does mean actors have potential. Just makers need to be more open to making well scripted entertainers with women dominating the scene and kicking some serious ass.

Action may not be necessary. For eg Nagina and Naagin do not have Sridevi and Reena Roy literally beat up villains, they rely more on their supernatural powers.

It would be nice to show female superheroes also.

Or a Nancy Drew style female detective in films.

642126 thumbnail
Posted: 3 years ago
#27

Dangal is a male dominated film as father is making daughters fulfil HIS dreams and rather imposing his own dreams on little girls who seem unwilling. It seems like a female oriented film but it is not. It is all about the father fulfilling his own unresolved dreams through his daughters. It was all about Aamir and the father's character he played. It faced criticism rather for glorifying father imposing his dreams and standards on his kids even if they were unwilling themselves or not that interested in the sport to pursue as a profession.


It is not about labels and I would not like to deviate from topic by counting on small budget offbeat films which are not even marketed to masses and have niche audience even on TV/DVD.


Taapsee does try different concepts and must be praised for it but her films are never really ones with mass appeal nor out and out entertainers. They are small budget films that do moderately well or flop but win critical acclaim. Such films were made dime and dozen by theatre background artistes in 80s. Nobody cared except for film festivals and critics.

She is at a certain level. But not even comparable to Kangana at box office let alone any past actor like Hema or Sridevi or Nargis.


I am not interested in diverting from topic by discounting entertainer and commercial, mass appeal films aspect which is the main focus of my opening post. The 'quality' factor is irrelevant to my post because films like Khoon Bhari Maang and Nagina can hardly be called quality cinema but they are good timepass, commercial entertainers that had mass appeal and set ticket counters on fire at BO, still get decent TRPs on TV on old movie channels.


Quality is usually given as a counter to make up for lack of box office success or cover inability of stars to draw audience to theatres. Aamir fans used to do the same when his films were not doing well. Until he broke records with Raja Hindustani and later Ghajini, 3 Idiots, Dhoom 3 and Dangal.


Anyway I agree audience is demanding, fickle, often unfair and unpredictable. They want their entertainment and are not bothered about quality of acting or script and these days they are more dependent on hearsay, perception, marketing unlike old days when they went to watch any film with an open mind and regardless of whether film was widely marketed or not.


I feel these days films with strong female leads or films that look even remotely female dominated have begun to be trolled before release itself by MRA type trolls who begin to spread propaganda that film will be anti men, preachy or 'against family values'. And pseudo nationalists also attack trailers itself judging if film will defame India or spoil image or if a certain actress is fit to do X, Y, Z role or not.


Gunjan Saxena had to be heavily censored thanks to trolling and later IAF also objecting to portrayal of sexism in it.


Male actors are also no longer like Dharam, Sunny, Rajini, Shatru, Rishi etc who will be ready to act in film that has female in more prominent role.


Taapsee did share how even newcomers have attitude and dislike doing films with actors like her and object to heroine dominating the scene. If even newcomers are so insecure then what can be said about senior stars?


I heard Chaalbaaz is being remade now? I wonder if stars as prominent as Sunny Deol and Rajinikanth of 80s will be there in the film or it will have less known heroes? I doubt today's insecure heroes agreeing to do a film like Chaalbaaz.


Out and out commercial entertainers and mass appeal, U rated films with female leads are even more rare now.


The films you listed are not massy commercial films. Kajol's film about parenting dilemma or Taapsee's films are not commercial entertainers at all. Those are small budget films and marketed to one segment of audience or sometimes hardly marketed at all. Kind of like Basu Chatterjee's small budget family films of past era.

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Posted: 3 years ago
#28

Originally posted by: atominis

Yes.

Khoon Bhari Maang is a masala film replete with villain, vamp, dukhi parivar, damsel in distress turned avenger and that too as a hot model.

It is a typical masala potboiler and has an OTT plot unlike more subtle Queen and English Vinglish that have NO hero, villain, vamp or glamour or action scenes.

entertainer.

"Hero, villain, vamp, glamour, action scenes" 🤪 ma'am, this is 2021 not 1989.

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Edited by Rekha_ji - 3 years ago
diasingh2 thumbnail
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Posted: 3 years ago
#29

Originally posted by: atominis

Dangal is a male dominated film as father is making daughters fulfil HIS dreams and rather imposing his own dreams on little girls who seem unwilling. It seems like a female oriented film but it is not. It is all about the father fulfilling his own unresolved dreams through his daughters. It was all about Aamir and the father's character he played. It faced criticism rather for glorifying father imposing his dreams and standards on his kids even if they were unwilling themselves or not that interested in the sport to pursue as a profession.


It is not about labels and I would not like to deviate from topic by counting on small budget offbeat films which are not even marketed to masses and have niche audience even on TV/DVD.


Taapsee does try different concepts and must be praised for it but her films are never really ones with mass appeal nor out and out entertainers. They are small budget films that do moderately well or flop but win critical acclaim. Such films were made dime and dozen by theatre background artistes in 80s. Nobody cared except for film festivals and critics.

She is at a certain level. But not even comparable to Kangana at box office let alone any past actor like Hema or Sridevi or Nargis.


I am not interested in diverting from topic by discounting entertainer and commercial, mass appeal films aspect which is the main focus of my opening post. The 'quality' factor is irrelevant to my post because films like Khoon Bhari Maang and Nagina can hardly be called quality cinema but they are good timepass, commercial entertainers that had mass appeal and set ticket counters on fire at BO, still get decent TRPs on TV on old movie channels.


Quality is usually given as a counter to make up for lack of box office success or cover inability of stars to draw audience to theatres. Aamir fans used to do the same when his films were not doing well. Until he broke records with Raja Hindustani and later Ghajini, 3 Idiots, Dhoom 3 and Dangal.


Anyway I agree audience is demanding, fickle, often unfair and unpredictable. They want their entertainment and are not bothered about quality of acting or script and these days they are more dependent on hearsay, perception, marketing unlike old days when they went to watch any film with an open mind and regardless of whether film was widely marketed or not.


I feel these days films with strong female leads or films that look even remotely female dominated have begun to be trolled before release itself by MRA type trolls who begin to spread propaganda that film will be anti men, preachy or 'against family values'. And pseudo nationalists also attack trailers itself judging if film will defame India or spoil image or if a certain actress is fit to do X, Y, Z role or not.


Gunjan Saxena had to be heavily censored thanks to trolling and later IAF also objecting to portrayal of sexism in it.


Male actors are also no longer like Dharam, Sunny, Rajini, Shatru, Rishi etc who will be ready to act in film that has female in more prominent role.


Taapsee did share how even newcomers have attitude and dislike doing films with actors like her and object to heroine dominating the scene. If even newcomers are so insecure then what can be said about senior stars?


I heard Chaalbaaz is being remade now? I wonder if stars as prominent as Sunny Deol and Rajinikanth of 80s will be there in the film or it will have less known heroes? I doubt today's insecure heroes agreeing to do a film like Chaalbaaz.


Out and out commercial entertainers and mass appeal, U rated films with female leads are even more rare now.


The films you listed are not massy commercial films. Kajol's film about parenting dilemma or Taapsee's films are not commercial entertainers at all. Those are small budget films and marketed to one segment of audience or sometimes hardly marketed at all. Kind of like Basu Chatterjee's small budget family films of past era.


By you logic, "Chak De India" would also be a male dominated film, because Sharukh as a coach was and doing atyachar on those hockey girls.🤪

Besides Dangal was literally a biopic on Phogat sisters and their story of growing up with their father's obsession with winning the World Cup. But you will find 100+ reasons to call, rather than believing another POV.


You feel female commercial entertainers are "rare" now, when the fact is they were "rare" even more before. The examples "Seet Aur Geeta", "Khoon Bhari Maang" do not indicate there was a trend before that's dead, because they were anyways commercial entertainers marketed as good films, with the actress in the center.

Besides those actresses had credibility with the audience and the filmmakers had faith in them and the story. That is not the cases with actresses today.


I gave you more than 10 examples from the last decade of commercially successful "female-oriented" films,


Even if I discount moderate successful films like Barelli Ki Barfi or Tumhari Sulu (which is unfair from POV), there are films that did very good business at BO.


TWMR made on 39 crore budget made 240+ crores worldwide.

Kahani made on a budget of 8 crores, made 104 crores.

Pari made on a budget 30 crore, made 118 crores.
Veeray Di Wedding made on a budget of 28 crores, made 139 crores.

Raazi made on a budget of 30-45 crores made 197 crores.

Badla made on a budget of 37 crores made 139 crores.

Mission Mangal made on a budget of 32 crores made 250+ crores.


but I guess they are not "commercial" enoughsmiley24 for you because you are looking at them with yardsticks of 70s and 80s.

I guess by this logic, female oriented successful films will forever be rare in BW.😆

I absolutely agree the bold part.👏 Finally something where we agree completely

Peace!

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Posted: 3 years ago
#30

Dolly Kitty Aur Woh Chamakte Parathe

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