The Incoherent Ramblings of a Mad Woman - Page 2

Created

Last reply

Replies

24

Views

3.2k

Users

14

Likes

82

Frequent Posters

return_to_hades thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 8 years ago
#11
Also some more ramblings
Die hard fans can be silly. It seems pathetic to adopt an actor, director, singer whomsoever like a child and get hurt when someone calls them ugly.

I'd say it is far more pathetic though to go out of your way to find opportunities to call other people's child ugly.
charminggenie thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 8 years ago
#12
Hadey, take over the Mod office again please!!

I truly resent this highbrow attitude attached to movies and thumping down at the audience for liking certain things or rejected few.

Now that you mentioned, I didn't like Nolan's Dunkirk but thats because I do think Nolan is one of the best technical directors out there , just for me his movies lack the emotional punch. They are not human enough. Usually I end up appreciated the craft of his movies more than the emotional quotient or the crux of the movie.


Now to JJ. I like Basu's direction because his frames are always love. He tries something quirky. And while I adore Feluda, Bong references even if I am not one, I just think with JJ he did way too many things which dented the narrative. I still maintain the movie would have done well had it been solely enacted by kids while Basu could have got his Feluda fix by having Ranbir play the character in some other movie.
At a time when movies like Pink, Queen to Lipstick , audience is appreciating the niche, content driven well-intended movies. JJ tries to manipulate the emotion while Barfi naturally created the moment. This is why JJ failed for me. Another factor, we are not new to musicals, we like our movies with songs and with a budget that is usually reserved for a big blockbuster masala movie , audience will expect a "paisa vasool time" , where it moves them, makes them laugh, scare them or cry.

I will never get this attitude that actors, films shouldn't be criticized especially on internet . it sets a bad precedent , why do we then raise a hue & cry when people react like this for politicians? why call them Bhakts when one acts similarly to an actor .Our idols/Heroes should always and constantly been scrutinised to check the blindness.

Ironically while we fight for 66A and for sites like IF, the same platform goes on to censor the opinions.


return_to_hades thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 8 years ago
#13
^^
Being a non Bong, I am not familiar with the Feluda aspect.

Jagga Jassoos is such a mixed bag. As you said the frames are love. I have not seen such mastery in capturing scenes for a very long time. Even the choreography is mesmerizing. But he spent so much time over the visuals and the musicals - he lost the plot. There is no emotion, meaning or compelling storyline.

Musical and musical dialogues work (Les Mis, Hamilton) but history has shown that they do not translate well into film. Les Mis - such a wonderful live show - but such a disenchanting movie.
charminggenie thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 8 years ago
#14

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

^^

Being a non Bong, I am not familiar with the Feluda aspect.

Jagga Jassoos is such a mixed bag. As you said the frames are love. I have not seen such mastery in capturing scenes for a very long time. Even the choreography is mesmerizing. But he spent so much time over the visuals and the musicals - he lost the plot. There is no emotion, meaning or compelling storyline.

Musical and musical dialogues work (Les Mis, Hamilton) but history has shown that they do not translate well into film. Les Mis - such a wonderful live show - but such a disenchanting movie.


Oh man, hope LMM never makes a Hamilton movie.😆

Feluda is a beloved Bong fictional character. Sort of a like a detective series.Basu has this habit of throwing in such acts here and there. JJ for me was all frames. DOP deserves all the awards. But it lacked a plot..
Kore-Soteira thumbnail
12th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 8 years ago
#15
I can't say much about Hollywood but what you have written is perfect.
I remember a conversation i had with my mother. When we went to watch the movie Dangal a teaser of Jagga Jassos was shown and my mother said there's no chemistry between the lead actors worried about the film would do. And the rest we know.
Yes I do believe that some genres don't appeal to people and detective ones have not created a mark in Bollywood. But I believe Jagga Jasoos failed on its execution. They relied too much on songs hoping it will attract audience and on Ranbir after ADHM success. But ADHM was just a one time wonder. We can't say on all other movies. And Katrina's career is on downhill; to make matters worse her looks which had been a plus point for her are gone.
Christopher Nolan believes in story and less use of CGI. He always says about it. And he surprised everyone with Dunkirk which is a war film unlike the rest of his movies. And when Christopher Nolan films come people are excited what he's going to show and not who is in it.
2filmy thumbnail
8th Anniversary Thumbnail Trailblazer Thumbnail Commentator Level 2 Thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#16
I think Jagga Jasoos failed as there were just too many song dialogs
People did not like it as much as expected
Also there was some problem with the script execution
The film could have been 15 - 20 minutes shorter in the 2nd half
return_to_hades thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 8 years ago
#17
Another few weeks and another movie undeserving of being panned the way it is. Like Jagga Jasoos, I do not think Jab Harry Met Sajal is a terrible movie. What is it that other people see that I do not see? Or what is it that I see that other people are not seeing? Am I just turning prematurely senile as I age? Or do I now belong in the back in my day category? Of course, I cannot dismiss my bias as someone who has loved SRK since age 13.
I think it is a combination of many factors. The people seem exhausted from the reign of superstars. They are weary of the oft repeated formulaic larger than life characters, saccharine doused romances, and escapism that defies even the fools logic. Most importantly, they reject the need of fifty something men pretending to be spring chickens romancing women half their age.

Objectively, Jab Harry Met Sejal is not a bad film. It is a mediocre film that I will put slightly above average on the distribution curve. Shahrukh Khan is surprisingly restrained in his performance. Anushka Sharma, erratic accent aside delivers impeccably timed comic punchlines often with just her facial expressions. It is chockful of delightful humor making you smile along the entire journey. The cinematography is excellent. While it may be cheesy, the symbolism and motifs are nice in the narrative. Music is decent. Pacing is good. Except for that second half which I will admit is a terrible case of constipation, it's a pretty decent movie.

To be honest, it is light years better than some mindless drivel like Happy New Year or Chennai Express that for inexplicable reasons became hits. I think I actually prefer it to some older SRK hits like KKHH, DTPH, and K3G. Perhaps, JHMS is better than those combined. It really makes me think that my generation was very forgiving and we allowed subpar films to attain the pinnacle of success.

A lot of criticism berating JHMS is targeted at Imtiaz Ali's obsession with the manic pixie dream girl. From Geet Dhillon to Sejal Zhaveri, Imtiaz Ali has rehashed the same journey of self-discovery with the broken guy being healed by his manic pixie dream girl.

Coincidentally, the manic pixie dream girl will turn ten this fall. Hopefully, she will die a swift, painless, and early death. I hate that term. It has allowed for a rainbow spectrum of diverse, unique, strong, well loved and beloved characters to be reduced and pigeonholed into a juvenile literary trope. The creator of the term regrets it and apologizes. Geet Dhillon and Sejal Zhaveri are as different as chalk and cheese. Albeit fictional, they are unique individuals. So let's not allow one person's failure to diversify their writing chops turn into an opportunity to force characters into labels.

There is a cringe worthy dose of misogyny though. In Cocktail, it was shamelessly waved in front of our face, and if I might be crude to make a point the movie was a literal Cock(tail) being slapped in the face of us women. If we drink or smoke or have sexual agency, we are s**ts and unfit for marriage. If we are virginal teetotalers, we are total marriage material and unworthy of being f**ked for the joy of it.

JHMS falls into the same trap. Not as blatantly, but still. Most people in my circle who critiqued the skill had this main complaint. The film is too regressive. This was the major aspect that others saw and I did not. I see their point now. Perhaps it was my rose tinted glasses or my love for Shah Rukh Khan, I was blind and oblivious. I interpreted it completely differently. I think there is still a tiny bit of credence in my interpretation.

Sexual tension is at the center of the narrative. Harry is a womanizer who enjoys a not monogamous sex life in a hollow attempt to alleviate his loneliness of being away from home. Clearly, he sees Sejal in the same light as well. His only reason for not pursuing his instincts is his fear for his job.

Unfortunately, this crucial plot detail is half baked and not well explained. There are two reasons I can come up for his fear. One is that travel agencies forbid their tour guides from having sexual relationships with their clients, so he risks losing his job. Two is that the Indian clientele he catered too did not take kindly to a lowly tour guide defiling their "chaste" daughters even if it was consensual. While most people would shrug it off as saying your adult daughter made some adult friends and adult choices, Indians would totally fire someone for this. This is the result of my overactive brain trying to make sense of something that is never explained at all in the film.

As a result, I felt that Harry always had a sexual attraction to Sejal which he fought. Consequently, I interpreted the misogynistic dialogues as a humorous reflection of the absurd conclusions the false Madonna/wh**e dichotomy Indian society forces us into. So whenever Harry told Sejal l things like "waise type ki nahin" or "porcelain vase to be looked at", I did not take it at face value. But I took it as absurdity he has to spew because there is no other good reason why he should not flirt with Sejal other than the Madonna/wh**e dichotomy he is being forced into.

I do have a problem with Indian films and their caricatures of womanizers. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a man (or woman) who enjoys having sex with multiple partners, as long as they are safe, consensual, and non-deceptive. But clearly, the only way to bed a woman is to pretend to be in love with her not honesty, and men are incapable of being honest and risk going home alone. I really hope Bollywood films can be sex positive someday and show non-monogamous men and women who are just people who enjoy sex and not scumbags of the earth.

Let us come to Sejal. Born and brought up in India, she has been raised in a culture of Madonna/wh**e dichotomy. She wants to be an ideal daughter and thus entered into an ideal relationship and had the ideal engagement. The only problem is that everything is less than ideal. She has settled for a man she looks good with, but with whom she has zero chemistry or sexual tension. Things are further exaggerated by the fact that he can be cold and uncommunicative forcing her to change in order to sustain the relationship.

Like any other human she wants to drink, dance, go out, and enjoy life without being judged. Like any other human, she wants to be seen f**kworthy or at least attractive by others. So even though she intends never to put out, she does want Harry the so called womanizer to at least make an attempt so she feels validated. This again is not well portrayed, often focusing on the comedic effect that overpowers the thought process. Or once again it is my imagination trying to fill in the gaps between the events on screen.

As the two characters spend time together, their sexual tension increases. Harry becomes aware that physical intimacy need not be devoid of emotion. There is something to say about spending quality time with a person, getting to know them, having fun and forming a friendly bond. It is scary opening up, but it makes someone who breaks down those emotional walls all the more exciting. Sejal, on the other hand, begins to realize that sexual chemistry is not a bad thing. It is not about being the ideal girl in the ideal relationship. It is about finding someone who accepts you who you are and developing a chemistry that is emotional, social, and of course physical. Harry does not judge Sejal for wanting to express herself. In return, Sejal sees Harry as a whole human, not just a womanizer.

Throughout the movie, the growing chemistry and sexual tension are hyped up. But it is always resolved with some PG cuddling and snuggling. In many ways, it is cute and refreshing. Sex does not always have to be the least common denominator. There are many ways to express affection. Romantic friendships and platonic relationships are an interesting genre of relationships on their own. They could have been written like Taystee and Poussey who form the most emotionally intense but platonic romantic friendship. They could have been written like Mulder and Scully who form a close bond that takes several seasons before it gets sexual. They could have been written like Xena and Gabrielle leaving us ever wondering if they were just together or "together" together.

But Harry and Sejal were written to have sexual tension. And at some point, that tension should have culminated them in sleeping together with Sejal breaking off the engagement the morning after. That culmination would have shattered the Madonna/wh**e dichotomy portraying Sejal as just an ordinary woman seeking to be loved and validated for being herself. Just a woman who had agency over her own body and chose to share it with someone, when she was ready. It would have shattered the notion that every womanizer is a lonely broken man who needs saving. He would have been just an ordinary man who chose mindless sex to alleviate his loneliness. Just a man who had the strength of character to let go of his past and engage in a meaningful relationship.

The scene that really pissed me off is when he spews a contrived reason not to have sex with her even though he wanted to, she wanted him to and gave him permission. The movie could have ended there and refrained from the melodrama after that. I maybe in the minority but this is how I think the movie should have gone.
charminggenie thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 8 years ago
#18
Only place where I will discuss this movie. Being a fellow , 90s fan of SRK , i dreaded this movie for many reasons.
My disappointment with SRK is not about his acting but the roles he picked. Granted romance has been his forte but the way it is executed holds the picture for me. Sometimes the 90s or even early 2000s dose of looking soulful in the eyes , mouthing the lines while perpetually playing different versions of his earlier characters hasn't aged well. Why cannot romance in Indian cinema mature. Why cannot Shah play a "character" rather than the actor, "King of romance". See this is why he has lost his appeal now. He is hell bend in being SRK on screen rather than playing off a character.


IA- He rehashes the same template. Same MO for all his movies. Why this one failed particularly because even though some of his earlier movies had those little conversations, those little moments where you could make sense of the "bond" , irrespective how shallow it be.
I didn't see it here. At all. I will get to the regressiveness of his story-telling later. But lets start with his characters.

ML- Listless, waiting for his eureka. Aimless. Things of himself as a failure. Cynical.Jaded. Pick any of his characters from any of his movies you will see the heavy dose of these adjectives.

FL- I will not compere Geet with Sejal but you cannot help but notice how much IA is inspired by Geet's influence in his movies. Take Sejal. She ain't conservative yeah..nope. She won't be part of this journey if she was one. Imposing like Geet rather. Geet's famous "main apni favourite hu"..is replaced by Sejal constantly trying to see validation of her sex appeal. Did I mention the need to give her caricaturish accent even those she is super rich , Mumbai girl , there is no reason to why she has that accent except to generate cheap slang based jokes , play on a language like Bhatinda wali Geet's Punjabiness.


You know while JWM , did a decent-ish job of showing how much of a dick Geet's fiance was, this movies leaves very little, gives less meet to show that. The switch in Geet was shown organically while here in Sejal it isn't explained , it is absurd, lazy.

I don't buy the maker of this movie cared about checking the tourist guide rules as they broke zillion of those protocols. Thats us , trying to reason out the basis of the attraction or some sort of bond between these two characters.

This audience has seen a coming of age movie for a female character in Kangy's Queen. You don't even need to spell it out but focus on showing the organic transitions. Here it made no sense what or why was Sejal this inhibited especially. If at all she was.
I cannot help but recall lot of IA movies - Heer in Rockstar had a need to explore her sexuality, wild side. Veronica of cocktail. Meera , who magically went from being conservative chick to swinging to , "Main hu hi nahi iss duniya Ki". Been there, done that. I don\'t think the movie even tried focusing on the sexual empowering of Sejal beyond using it as a banter to elicit some sort of chemistry.


IA and his movies normalizes regressiveness in the end , there by diluting the entire crux if one tries to build around female sexuality.

Phew, thats it for now. I have way too many problems with this movie.
KabhiKabhi thumbnail
8th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#19
JHMS is a bad movie. No amount of justifications or ramblings is going to change that.
Pappu.Pager thumbnail
9th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 8 years ago
#20
Can I please get a TLDR for this Sarina? lol

Related Topics

Bollywood thumbnail

Posted by: oyebollywood · 1 months ago

https://x.com/taran_adarsh/status/1961274595346104731

https://x.com/taran_adarsh/status/1961274595346104731
Expand ▼
Bollywood thumbnail

Posted by: woodland · 4 months ago

https://x.com/navneet_mundhra/status/1926200943453827341?s=46 https://x.com/navneet_mundhra/status/1926279602327921036?s=46

https://x.com/navneet_mundhra/status/1926200943453827341?s=46
Expand ▼
Bollywood thumbnail

Posted by: Rangaaa · 4 months ago

https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/woman-fan-dubai-intrudes-actor-aditya-roy-kapoor-house-bandra-detained-10031521/

Expand ▼
Bollywood thumbnail

Posted by: Sea-stars · 5 months ago

The lady (belongs to defense intelligence) in the video is claiming that Sri Devi was murdered using Mamushi poison that comes from a Japanese...

Expand ▼
Top

Stay Connected with IndiaForums!

Be the first to know about the latest news, updates, and exclusive content.

Add to Home Screen!

Install this web app on your iPhone for the best experience. It's easy, just tap and then "Add to Home Screen".