human weakness and self respect.

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

In another thread, siriuslysujal, in response to a criticism of anandi has said

"I think it's ridiculous and, quite frankly, insulting to equate someone displaying human weaknesses as them not having self-respect."

For me, this is a really interesting difference she highlights. I want to know what folks think is the dividing line between a person displaying human weaknesses and a person not having self-respect.

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Jiya

@jiya25

Dazzler

Posted: 13 years ago

Self-esteem, according to Nathaniel Branden, author of many seminal works in this area, "is confidence in our ability to think, confidence in our ability to cope with the basic challenges of life, and confidence in our right to be successful and happy."

In Anandi's case, she passed beautifully on the first two crieteria but fails miserably on the last, but perhaps the most important, crieteria for self esteem...

Infact, I think Dadisa is perhaps the only charachter ever who personifies this value.

I know its not exactly what you asked, but felt like sharing...

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Nazneen

@SiriuslySujal

Dazzler

Posted: 13 years ago

Woo, a thread on my quote! I feel kinda special 😆

It's difficult to set a line to differentiate between the two, I think. It's very dependent on the situation. One could say that if someone doesn't stand up for themselves and their needs, they don't have self-respect. But then again, there are a lot of situations where it would be difficult to do that for reasons of social propriety, power balances etc. And it's difficult to decide whether a person who chooses to remain silent is weak, lacking in self-respect, or just has different priorities (e.g. not talking back to a nasty boss because they prioritise their career and want to keep their livelihood/get a promotion... actually, that makes me think of Jagya... can his OTT behaviour in SNG be put down to him defending his own self-respect, or was it in fact a weakness that he couldn't keep his temper under control in favour of social propriety? Wow, this is getting philosophical and complicated and tying my head into knots 😆)

Also, sometimes relationships (romantic, family ties or friendships) blind us. I would say I have a decentish amount of self-respect, but sometimes being very close to someone can make us bend our morals for them. And even that has gradations. So with, say, peer pressure to do drugs or something... if a friend just told me to take crack, and I took some without question, that would be both a human weakness and a lack of self-respect (it would be like I didn't have a mind of my own and was just mindlessly listening to my friend out of fear that they'd hate me if I refused or something). But if a friend offered me crack and tried to persuade me to take it and I refused at first but eventually gave in... that would be a human weakness (making a bad decision for my own health) but would not imply a lack of self-respect, because I'd be making an influenced but conscious choice). If a friend offered me crack and tried to persuade me and I refused until they gave up, that would show strength of character and conviction in my own belief that drugs are bad, but would not necessarily mean that I had more self-respect that if I caved in and took it. Either way I'd be making a choice for myself.

In Anandi's case, even though it's been many years since her divorce, she still thinks of Jughead. This is a weakness on her part, but doesn't imply a lack of self-respect. She had ceased all contact with him long back, and after the divorce she wished him well. People say she's been separate from him for 7 years now, but if we think about it:

- 5 years of that were with him only coming home once a year and showing no love to her in that time... but they were still married and she never dreamed he'd leave her, so she still believed in the relationship and believed that it was salvageable if she could just be good/educated/modern/<insert more appropriate adjectives> enough;

- Even after he left her, they were still in touch; he called her to share problems and stuff, and she sent him money, and they'd turn up at the haveli every so often for Gauri to have her crazy tantrums. So she didn't get sufficient time away from the situation. However, she still busied herself with her education, her social service, etc., and was made the Sarpanch of Jaitsar;

- After they ceased to be in contact completely (Gauri miscarriage drama etc), she was pretty OK for quite some time. She also yelled at JaGo about the property stunt they tried to pull. But then the divorce papers showed up, Dadisa's marriage proposal was exposed, and things went bad again. Then Bhago died not much later, the marriage/last wish stuff was weighing on her mind, and then Jagat showed up AGAIN at the barsi with the babhoot. I guess she now feels somewhat alienated from her family because of the steps they are taking for her "happiness"... she doesn't know how to tell them that she isn't really happy, because nobody listened to her when she insisted that she wanted to remain alone (a perfectly valid life choice!). I just feel like the whole thing is a more complicated situation than simply "she asked him to marry her, so now she has to behave like she's OK about the marriage". She would never have proposed to Shiv if Dadisa and Bhairon had not coerced her via Bhago. I think she is more fragile inside than she lets on due to having no-one to really talk to, and tries to mask that fragility as best she can... but she can't mask it enough to be able to smile over something she doesn't truly want. I think she made a mistake in telling Shiv that they should get married as soon as possible, but she did that in the immediate aftermath (within half a month) of her mother's death, so it's an understandable mistake given what her priorities are at that time. She can't really go back on what she's said now that his family has shown up... so she is sucking it up even though she would rather not. These are all human weaknesses (if she didn't make mistakes, she'd be a flat and boring heroine), but her gloomy demeanor and wistful thoughts of Jagya are not a glorification of abuse or an indication that she has low self-respect. That's how I see it, at least. If she was like... calling Jagya and begging him to take her back after all this time, or if she was staring at his photos 24/7 and not doing anything with her own life... then I'd buy the lack of self-respect thing, and would have probably stopped watching the serial long before. But that's not been the case at all.

Also, she stopped wearing the sindoor/mangalsutra etc long before the divorce because she knew there was no point... a lot of women would carry on wearing those regardless. I think that's a good sign that Anandi has a lot of self-respect 👍🏼

Sorry, HUUUGE post...

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VerboseG

@VerboseG

Stunner

+ 3

Posted: 13 years ago

If I am not wrong:

Self-esteem is a sense of confidence and satisfaction in oneself

Self-respect is proper esteem or regard for the dignity of one's character

Human weakness is a physical/mental fraility

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Nazneen

@SiriuslySujal

Dazzler

Posted: 13 years ago

Originally posted by: GinaMalkani

If I am not wrong:
Self-esteem is a sense of confidence and satisfaction in oneself
Self-respect is proper esteem or regard for the dignity of one's character
Human weakness is a physical/mental fraility

Agree on the first two... but I personally (dunno if I'm right) define human weakness as things like character flaws, double standards and the like rather than like... having weak knees or mild dyslexia or what have you (not sure if that's what you meant by physical/mental fraility, but that was my understanding) 😳

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Asha

@Chytra

Voyager

Posted: 13 years ago

A very thin line separates them. You will never learn control on you until you get tempted and you fight without giving to it.

Every human has some weakness or i will call inclination towards something or someone. To stand up to yourself and stand for what you believe in cannot be termed as self respect.

What is self respect for you wouldn't be same definition to me. It is SELF respect, no one can define where your self respect lies. You define it yourself. Every person is unique, everyone has different set of values. the tolerance level of some people is high and some is low. Tolerance these days is seen as something else. I have very low patience levels when it is compared between my mom and me but i wouldn't agree if someone comes up and say you have no self respect. Every individual has the right to choose where their break point is.

Human weakness is no where related to one's esteem. It is all about giving in or giving out your temptations. If i was ever in Anandi's place , i know I would have made his life hell by now. Forgiving is not my cup of coffee but still I like this character Anandi so much. Somehow I feel she inspires me. Wish to learn somethings from her. Temptation is hard to resist. Not everyone could resist it.

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VerboseG

@VerboseG

Stunner

+ 3

Posted: 13 years ago

@ Sujal - You are right there

Should we put it as fraility of the body/mind and the failure to overcome it? You could also look at the biblical connotation :-)

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Nazneen

@SiriuslySujal

Dazzler

Posted: 13 years ago

Originally posted by: GinaMalkani
@ Sujal - You are right there

Should we put it as fraility of the body/mind and the failure to overcome it? You could also look at the biblical connotation :-)

Yes, that sounds good 😊 I'm not very familiar with the Bible... what is the Biblical connotation?

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VerboseG

@VerboseG

Stunner

+ 3

Posted: 13 years ago

In the sense of Adam and Eve :-)

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dixie123

@dixie123

Sparkler

Posted: 13 years ago

#10

Originally posted by: SiriuslySujal

. I guess she now feels somewhat alienated from her family because of the steps they are taking for her "happiness"... she doesn't know how to tell them that she isn't really happy, because nobody listened to her when she insisted that she wanted to remain alone (a perfectly valid life choice!). I just feel like the whole thing is a more complicated situation than simply "she asked him to marry her, so now she has to behave like she's OK about the marriage". She would never have proposed to Shiv if Dadisa and Bhairon had not coerced her via Bhago. I think she is more fragile inside than she lets on due to having no-one to really talk to, and tries to mask that fragility as best she can... but she can't mask it enough to be able to smile over something she doesn't truly want. I think she made a mistake in telling Shiv that they should get married as soon as possible, but she did that in the immediate aftermath (within half a month) of her mother's death, so it's an understandable mistake given what her priorities are at that time. She can't really go back on what she's said now that his family has shown up... so she is sucking it up even though she would rather not. These are all human weaknesses (if she didn't make mistakes, she'd be a flat and boring heroine), but her gloomy demeanor and wistful thoughts of Jagya are not a glorification of abuse or an indication that she has low self-respect. That's how I see it, at least. If she was like... calling Jagya and begging him to take her back after all this time, or if she was staring at his photos 24/7 and not doing anything with her own life... then I'd buy the lack of self-respect thing, and would have probably stopped watching the serial long before. But that's not been the case at all.

Naz: Even I feel she is kind of all bottled up from inside and doesn't know with whom to share her feelings. Nobody is listening to her and just forcing her. She needs somebody where she can just tell her inner feelings. We as audience don't really know what is going on in anandi's mind.

That is why she is probably not able to respond to Shiv and disregarding his feelings.

Teacher ji aur Phooli can make a come back..

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human weakness and self respect.

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