Tape Recorder/ Radio for Simran - Page 4

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Kruts thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#31

Originally posted by: rachel490

I think most of the stories in any epic have both the sides and kinda depends on how we take it. It also depends on how the author has translated it from original language sanskrit(?). Sometimes translator itself try to inject his own ideas too.

JMHO

You are absolutely right, Raj (?) Translations are usually not the only problem, because the concept can still be maintained within languages even though certain wording and writing style are likely to change. The tone of the concept is what matters. Most versions of the Mahabharat, whether they are merely versions or translations, have been through a constantly dynamic process. Another problem with an epic like the Mahabharat is that for the longest time it was verbally recited. "Original" version basically does not exist. Also, it has to be taken into account that it was written in verse-form, not text...while it wasnt originally intended to depict Krishna in his divine form (He was treated as a human in the original verses), over a period of time, his divinity became the focus of the epic.

It has been often argued in literature on Mahabharat and the Gita, that certain 'divinity endowing" verses were added on by devotees in the 15th/16th centuries, when faith was recognized as being important for the unity of a nation that was being invaded by other cultures. People who until then treated Ramayana, Mahabharat, etc. as being guidebooks to lifestyles needed something more solid in order to enhance their identities from a religious perspective. Hinduism was not a formal religion until about the 16th century, when other religions were already well defined. The lack of any formal religion in the south asian continent indicated that the person was belonging to hinduism (also known as Hindutva at the time). Because up until the 16th century, Hindu meant 'belonging to Hinda-pradesh'. Hinda-pradesh being derived from the Sindhu river in the northern area of the indian subcontinent.

Thus, any of these epics - mahabharat, ramayana, etc. were supposed to be guidelines and the dominating literature of the times. While Ramayana indicated an 'ideal' for all - brother, mother, wife, man, devotee, etc. Mahabharat focused on the gray shades within every individual. The failings of mankind are the crux of Mahabharat...its purpose is to teach morals by taking the path of penalty.

If any of you are interested in discussing a particular character in mahabharat in more detail, please let me know...i would be more than willing to discuss what it takes.

Taking this in the context of Astitva...the reason why it leaves a distaste in my mouth at times is that they show Simran to be 'doodh ki dhuli hui' or ideal at all times...whereas they show everyone else to be a mixture of good and evil or purely 'evil'. Now that Simran is blind, the Yash character seems to be bringing out the worst in her - in terms of dependency issues.

anyways, please let me know if you would not like this topic continued and i will stop 😊

Kruts thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#32

Originally posted by: innocentindian

heya krutilynn,
very interesting psot indeed....many thanks for posting it....fwiw, i certainly don't mind u posting it here if u want to continue....found it v.interesting indeed..

thank you innocent indian 😊. I can continue as long as people keep discussing it...otherwise i will stop. But i do appreciate your green flag on the topic 😃

innocentindian thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#33

do continue krutilynn....i don't see anyone has a problem with...

Originally posted by: krutilynn

Hinduism was not a formal religion until about the 16th century, when other religions were already well defined. The lack of any formal religion in the south asian continent indicated that the person was belonging to hinduism (also known as Hindutva at the time).

Can u explaint the above?

Buddha was before 16thC and there is an acknowledgement to him within hinduism....budhhism is an offshoot....

Shankracharya was before 16thC...i have no problems thinking of him as a saviour of hinduism....therefore, how can hinduism have been established in 16thC?

Hinduism is more purely known as "sanatan dharm"...sanatan meaning "from time immemorial" and ofcourse dharma meaning religion....The fact that the word "hinduism" may have been penned in 16thC is immaterial, if that is what is being alluded to...

your comments please....

thanks

Kruts thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#34
The closest english words i can find for meanings are written in italics. Dharma as defined by the vedas etc. does not translate into religion, but rather duty in life whereas Karma translates into 'obligations or works in life' Thus, hinduism that was called the sanatana dharma meant an eternal 'guidebook.'

I was not actually alluding to the phrase 'hinduism' but rather to the concept of hinduism as a religion. In the indian subcontinent Buddhism/Jainism were considered to be 'dharma' because they preach a different 'lifestyle.' Shankaracharya supported a healthier lifestyle and hence is known as a savior of 'hindudtva' - his focus was to make the vedas, and other texts accessible to the public in terms of the meanings, and remove focus from mere rituals.

Even in the 16th cen. Hinduism was not 'established' - it was merely a name given to the lifestyle and choices followed by the people that did not subscribe to other 'established' religions. Thus, if we lived in the 15/16th centuries and did not claim to be buddhists, moslems, jains, judaic, or christian - we would be considered to be merely 'hindus - the people in india who do not fall under these established umbrellas.' After the multiplicity increased substantially, at some point people started referring to hindus as being a part of a religion and assumed that the religion followed by the Hindus was Hinduism or hindutva. Interestingly, this is among the few religions in the world where the name of the religion has its origin in the name of the people. Also, Moguls referred to Bharat (india) as 'Hindustan = where the hindus live" which added to this 'formalizing' process.

If you study religions more carefully, it is similar to what happened to the gaelic people before christianity took over Europe - they were considered as 'pagans' and it merely meant 'not christian' at the time.

Another simile is that - for instance, when a human being is a man, it implies he is not woman...thus the existence of woman (also called 'naari' in sanskrit) is based on "not being male or 'nar'." Similarly, taking this binary approach to religion, Hinduism is defined as 'not any of the other religions.'

I hope that clarifies ur question 😊
Edited by krutilynn - 19 years ago
innocentindian thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#35
hi krutilynn

many thanks for that great explanation - very interesting as usual....

..and apologies for repying today only - as I only just saw it - I seem to have missed this post until now...(and only found it when looking for something else 😕 😆 )

...whilst i do appreciate what u wrote,and it does make a whole lot of sense,and i also do agree with it, personally, i also like the other side of the coin which translates "sanaatana dharm" as "eternal religion" or even "religion from time immemorial" 😊 ...maybe thats cos it just makes me feel good and prouder...or maybe its cos its what i've been used to....but i also like what u put forward (cos that also makes me proud 😉 )

once again, many thanks - and please do not hesitate to put forward more thoughts... 👏

cheers
Edited by innocentindian - 19 years ago
Kruts thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#36

Originally posted by: innocentindian

hi krutilynn

...whilst i do appreciate what u wrote,and it does make a whole lot of sense,and i also do agree with it, personally, i also like the other side of the coin which translates "sanaatana dharm" as "eternal religion" or even "religion from time immemorial" 😊 ...maybe thats cos it just makes me feel good and prouder...or maybe its cos its what i've been used to....but i also like what u put forward (cos that also makes me proud 😉 )


cheers

Hi there...😆😆. I am laughing not at you but at what you said...about feeling good and proud-er. I am the same way...reading different philosophies and explanations regarding hinduism and hindu texts does make me feel better and proud also...to be what i am...and that i come from such an ancient culture!! I started reading these explanations when people started saying that i was not 'hindu-enough' because i didnt visit temples, etc. regularly...and in order to refute it, i dug deeper into religion to prove that i was as much a hindu as anybody else eventhough i claim 'agnostic/spiritual' as my primary outlook on life.

enigma6 thumbnail
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Posted: 19 years ago
#37
Hi Krutilynn,
It was a real pleasure reading your postings on Mahabharata and the Hindu Religion. I too am a great fan of ancient Hindu literature and religion. Your posts enlightened me further. Thanks.

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