Discussion_Indian serials & Indian values - Page 4

Originally posted by: Caryn

Agreed Roja... only an individual can change or make changes or assimilate into the situation.

My brother's engagement is coming up. So he bought sarees for all the ladies at home. My mum's was black colour with stones and a very nice blue munthanai. Thats a lovely combination of sari.

My mum is very reluctant to wear it all because my uncles will scold her for wearing Karrupu!! (My uncle's face will twist and turn in a insulting way when describing karupu). Bear in mind, my mum is the anni. Yet she bears the syndrome of "what others will say". She shoudnt be reluctant to wear it because of her uncles will think its bad. Its not totally black come on man, just because its mixed with black it doesnt mean its bad luck. Jeese!!!!!

Although, we as in family including my dad told her, it is alright, it is a beautiful colour saree, and not totally black. End of the day, it is your son's engagement, blah blah... my mum is not convinced. Yesterday, when my sister came back from her trip, we showed her the saree. My sister loved it as well. Then my mum said she is going to keep this saree for reception, but use another saree which my brother bought for her from India for engagement. Next mo, I said to my mum, "you also look black, why don't you bleach yourself". I hated to be sarcastic to her, but she needs to stand up for herself when situation rises. The best part, she loves black. If your mummy loves it then she must wear it because its her choice what to wear common, but even though there are traditions to follow but its not fully black. Even after what her husband said its a lovely colour and the rest of the people love it. Then she must wear it.   

In their syndrome of "what other people say?" my parents, also drag us down with rules and the norms of society. (though who made such a rule, I will never know. If I do, I will shoot them 😡 ) Sometimes, we rebel, other times, we abide to our parents wishes, just because we don't want to hurt their feelings. You know what there are traditions which, must be followed as well there are traditions which doesnt need to be followed causes people to follow. One of my friend use to say I was a Christan because I never wore a pottu.Well, the matter of fact is my mother never wore one and I never as well because, I never felt the pressure to do so.  I was like people have freedom choice what to wear dont even try and make wear one. Then the second incident is the same friend invited me for the b-day party about 5 years back. Said everyone must wear salwar kameez and I came in normal clothing. Then, she demanded me to wear her salwar which, i had no choice not to even though arguing i am not. Then after a while i immediately took it off and wore my formal clothes.

Changes have to happen sooner or later. But the question is how many people out there can accept these kind of changes. For e.g. living together? I have a cousin who lived in with his girl for several years before marrying her. Basically he could not care the hood what others say. In short, he showed his middle finger. His mum was at despair of what others will say syndrome. His ultimatium to his mum was - who is important - your son or your relations. You make a choice and inform me. After that the mum shut up because she knew the son is stubborn enough to disown her. Well done to your cousin! Common, forget about what other people say about you. Well my cousin sister got married and had a love marriage well they never oblige to us but we knew it from my uncle. Acutally, he never listened to the other people instead they got them married off as they were in love.

Potraying women as all bad or all goody in serial gives me creep. I don't want to be in Lakshmi's /Abhi's /Netra shoes. Surely, somewhere along the line, you get tired of being goody shoes or evil person.

Madhu -

I know a friend who went thro something similar a few years ago. At that time, they had 2 girls aged 8 and 10. My friend is extremely intelligent, smart, very good looking, this family had 2 houses, had enough vacations abroad and what not.. And I was that outsider that you mentioned in your post. I thought ev'thing was rosy for her.
But she was shutting off ev'thing and decided to only concentrate on her career b'cos she just couldn't keep up with his demands(*). At some point, when she'd had enough of it and decided to separate, as a last resort and after much convincing (of her husband.. well.. what else can you expect from a typical desi husband?) they went for couples counselling. Since it was affecting the kids, they sent the kids away to a boarding school in India (you can imagine how difficult it would've been for a Mom to let her kids stay so far away - they had no choice and she didn't want the kids to be in the midst of all this animosity) and they worked through it. 2 years after this when I met her, she said she had brought her kids back and now they are a happy couple. I didn't ask her for details, but it did hurt me very much then, that a woman has to go thro *this* with utter distaste!

I believe your friend and hubby can work this out too, if they whole-heartedly and very willingly decide to go for counselling. Here in the US, 'tis a very common marital problem and I guess even the counsellors are trained very well to address this issue among couples.

Madhu

Agreed with Usha & Jenim. No one can help your friend except her and her husband. They need to go to a marriage counsellor. That is the only way to make the husband understand. She cannot do it on her own. The chances are she could loose him to another woman. Men in general just needs slightist excuse to deviate.

Usha, I am the same case. if I don't wear pottu, I am thought I am christian. My uncles always scold me for not wearing pottu at home or to temple. I just ignore them. My mum asks me the same, I just smile and then do what I do. Only wear pottu when I feel like it not because I must wear it. So now they have given up on me.

Some idiots must have told them black means mourning. Hello........ it is for the christians. For Hindus, it is amman colour. But do they listen? NO! Their thinking is set and it won't open up. Shows "nai valla neematha mudiyathu" 😃   Meanwhile, let's wait for mum's decision - she is two minded now. 😊

Another thing which is funny now but not then.  My sister was called to the Bar.  So before she left for the court, she was wearing black and went to my grandma's house to ask for her blessings.  My grandma of course blessed her. While my sister turned around talking to others, my uncle instigated to my grandma that sister is wearing black.  Sure enough my grandma got upset and upset my sister in turn.  My sister was in tears and explained to grandma that she is a lawyer now and must wear black. It is compulsory. But still her day was practically ruined by my uncle/grandma.  Luckily my dad saved the day and made it bright for her, when in his speech he made  some remarks about lawyers and black colour which caused embarassment to my uncle. 😊

Edited by Caryn - 16 years ago

Thanks Usha, Caryn, Jenim and Roja!

I also asked her to get to a counsellor.But she is reluctant she thinks his ego might get hurt and he would be offended and that will leave a permanent scar in their life. SHe is praying and hoping for some magic to happen .....i guess she will suffer until then.
And i am sure many many women are out waiting for some magic to happen and give them a relief!

Thanks guys again for your input!

Madhu

Yes, Madhu. The Indian male ego is exceptionally large and that often stands in the way of saving many marriges as men think it's beneath them to visit marriage counsellors.

Indian society is still very patriarchal and the macho Indian male's hormones often go into overdrive, raising unreasonable expectations of wives. That said, as I mentioned in my very first post in this thread, Indian women are also often conditioned into having a very functional view of sex, and this too leads to tension in Indian marriages.

Oh, and, as I've mentioned in several other unrelated posts, it's usually Indian women who bear the bulk of the responsibility for raising their sons as male chauvinists. Take my mum as an example. She always resented my dad's chauvinistic attitude towards her. And, yet, she has always treated her sons and daughters differently. She expects my sister and myself to wait on our brothers, including the younger ones, much to our resentment. Dad, on the other hand, empowered us, his daughters, even as he treated his wife mostly like a doormat.

Edited by Bonheur - 16 years ago

Originally posted by: Caryn

Agreed Roja... only an individual can change or make changes or assimilate into the situation.

My brother's engagement is coming up. So he bought sarees for all the ladies at home. My mum's was black colour with stones and a very nice blue munthanai.

My mum is very reluctant to wear it all because my uncles will scold her for wearing Karrupu!! (My uncle's face will twist and turn in a insulting way when describing karupu). Bear in mind, my mum is the anni. Yet she bears the syndrome of "what others will say".

Although, we as in family including my dad told her, it is alright, it is a beautiful colour saree, and not totally black. End of the day, it is your son's engagement, blah blah... my mum is not convinced. Yesterday, when my sister came back from her trip, we showed her the saree. My sister loved it as well. Then my mum said she is going to keep this saree for reception, but use another saree which my brother bought for her from India for engagement. Next mo, I said to my mum, "you also look black, why don't you bleach yourself". I hated to be sarcastic to her, but she needs to stand up for herself when situation rises. The best part, she loves black.   

the issue is not what will others say here....there are traditions and beliefs that are sometimes ingrained so deep that you dont even realise you are following it...

superstition is one such thing...black is a colour that is associated with funerals, casting eyes, witches eyes and many such things....show me one western woman who has broken the tradition and worn black at her wedding??? or had a black wedding gown made???.  if it can be justified when westerners do it, i dont see why we should pretend our sentiments wont hurt!!

by the way caryn....black is my fav colour too...i have an entire wardrobe of just black clothes!!!!

In their syndrome of "what other people say?" my parents, also drag us down with rules and the norms of society. (though who made such a rule, I will never know. If I do, I will shoot them 😡 ) Sometimes, we rebel, other times, we abide to our parents wishes, just because we don't want to hurt their feelings.

there are certain dress codes, and norms as well...you dont go to the sea side in a burkha, not do you go to the church or any place of worship in a bikini...we dont do this not because someone tells us not to do it or otherwise...it offends our personal sentiments...

Changes have to happen sooner or later. But the question is how many people out there can accept these kind of changes. For e.g. living together? I have a cousin who lived in with his girl for several years before marrying her. Basically he could not care the hood what others say. In short, he showed his middle finger. His mum was at despair of what others will say syndrome. His ultimatium to his mum was - who is important - your son or your relations. You make a choice and inform me. After that the mum shut up because she knew the son is stubborn enough to disown her.

here the living in is  a choice.  if the girl is agreeable to it.  but most girls will do it rather indeceit than openly.  it is not the fear of what their parents will say... that is there too tho not foremost.... but their parents fear...who will marry my daughter???  i dont think i have come across many men that have no problems with women who have had earlier relationships....the men are not matured that much as yet...

Potraying women as all bad or all goody in serial gives me creep. I don't want to be in Lakshmi's /Abhi's /Netra shoes. Surely, somewhere along the line, you get tired of being goody shoes or evil person.

if there is not clear cut character for a woman or a man in a serial...and if he/she was a wishy washy johnny...believe me nobody will be watching it....their money is at stake sweetie...they need clear cut characters......every saint has a past....and a every sinner has a future...else no serial will run!!!

Edited by jasunap - 16 years ago

Originally posted by: Bonheur

Roja, the situation is not always so simple as choosing one or the other course of action. Making certain decisions because you do not want to hurt your parents is one thing but in the process you often suffer a lot more than your parents would have done. I am sure in situations such as these the individual in question would wonder whether his/her parents could have been a bit more open-minded and less tradition-bound.

and bon on the other hand the parents would have also wondered...whether the children could have been less selfish.  at 28 the child cannot change cos things have changed....but expects a 60/70 year old to change their thinking???  how fair is that??
Edited by jasunap - 16 years ago

Originally posted by: Bonheur

Yes, Madhu. The Indian male ego is exceptionally large and that often stands in the way of saving many marriges as men think it's beneath them to visit marriage counsellors.

hey bon, this is true of not just indian men...it is true of most men in east european countries, most african countries, most latin american countries many asian countries, and some west european countries (like italy, spain, portugal etc) as well!!!  tis mostly in the usa, and uk that counselling is done on a regular basis.  but then..in most these countries that i have mentioned menopause is a natural thing women have always coped with it....but in usa and uk...it is an ailment...which has to be treated!!!😳

Indian society is still very patriarchal and the macho Indian male's hormones often go into overdrive, raising unreasonable expectations of wives. That said, as I mentioned in my very first post in this thread, Indian women are also often conditioned into having a very functional view of sex, and this too leads to tension in Indian marriages.

Oh, and, as I've mentioned in several other unrelated posts, it's usually Indian women who bear the bulk of the responsibility for raising their sons as male chauvinists. Take my mum as an example. She always resented my dad's chauvinistic attitude towards her. And, yet, she has always treated her sons and daughters differently. She expects my sister and myself to wait on our brothers, including the younger ones, much to our resentment. Dad, on the other hand, empowered us, his daughters, even as he treated his wife mostly like a doormat.

hey bon this is true in most other asian countries and african countries and latin american countries as well....this is not india centric...if you dont mind my saying so....

Jas, my mum don't believe in witchcraft things etc and all that crap. All she believes is in God and that's all she does and knows. As far as I am concerned she loves black, her sons, her husband and her daughters are for it. The engagement is in evening and it is a garden party theme. We know for sure she will look great in it.

But all she cares about is what her brother in law (who gives hissy sounds when saying karupu) and relatives say. In short, she is scared of them. My mum is a timid person. So believe me this is not about being superticious.   If it is, she would not have allowed her son to submit registration forms on Navami day, nor distribute engagement cards on Thursday.

Originally posted by: Caryn

Jas, my mum don't believe in witchcraft things etc and all that crap. All she believes is in God and that's all she does and knows. As far as I am concerned she loves black, her sons, her husband and her daughters are for it. The engagement is in evening and it is a garden party theme. We know for sure she will look great in it.

you will have to forgive me here caryn....but you dont seem to have read my comments properly.  i have not mentioned witchcraft etc anywhere.  the point was about superstition....i have not said your mother believes in it...she may not...but obviously your uncle does...for him to react that way!!!  and maybe your mom respects what he feels and hence does not want to wear black...is that very difficult to understand???

But all she cares about is what her brother in law (who gives hissy sounds when saying karupu) and relatives say.

there you said it yourself!!!  she cares more about her brother and her image and what other people say....if she wants to do something...she will have to circumvent that or rise above that!!!

In short, she is scared of them. My mum is a timid person. So believe me this is not about being superticious.   If it is, she would not have allowed her son to submit registration forms on Navami day, nor distribute engagement cards on Thursday.

what will people say is a fear that most people go through.  if you worry about what others say and your image and what will become of it....then you live your life in fear and cater to others likings.  if image is what you are concerned about....forget your desires....and if you want to do what you want...forget about what others say!!!  the choice is clearly yours....