My two cents on Alia Bhatt's Controversial Ad - Page 5

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Posted: 2 years ago
#41

Originally posted by: Zeal17

The negativity of word Kanyadaan stems from the narrow minded people who are stuck up on word Kanya and Daan.. but there is/was auspicious significance behind it. Girl is not praya dhan or being donated here. That is why mantra spoken at the time of Kanyadaan is different from all the mantras spoken at the time of donation/daan.. anyways let me get to the point where I show what it actually means..


In the religious realm, lucky are the parents who get daughters because they get the opportunity to purify their sins(even the one's made in previous births).


The bride is treated as incarnation of Goddess Lakshmi, not the so called objectification as people believe it today. So all the mantra's spoken at time of Kanyadaan are to seek blessings of the god that the parents of the bride have performed their responsibility of making Goddess Lakshmi meet the groom who is believed to be incarnation of God Vishnu. Parents of the bride have fulfilled their dharma, they have done the most divine act uniting Lakshmi back with her Vishnu and now the parents of daughter can attain Moksha.. 


One of the mantras literally means that parents are thanking god Vishnu for giving the opportunity to raise a daughter and now give rightfully back to him. As part of the cycle of birth and life to continue its important that Lashmi and Vishnu meet continue that cycle. 


That is nice to read and thanks for sharing it. I did not know most of it. I then refered to this, and you are quite right: https://penguin.co.in/understanding-the-kanyaadaan-ceremony-an-excerpt-from-vedic-wedding-book/

But one point I still find troublesome. 

With this in my mind, and with this ritual and before the ceremonial water is poured,

May I offer you, who are in the form of Vishnu, my daughter

in the form of Lakshmi.

Incarnation of Goddess Lakshmi (bride) is still being offered to incarnation of Vishnu (groom), while the opposite doesn't happen. It does come down to ownership of the woman being carried over from the parents to the groom and his family. 


And that is also fine, really to an extent. The real problem IMO is, some of these rituals have gotten corrupted over time - by us practicing Hindus and the preachers, to suit one gender. Kanya being interpreted as Godess Lakshmi has led to the tradition of dowry which leads to other domestic crimes against women. There is no justification for dowry, especially in well off families, but it still happens even in the biggest metros and cities and with the richest families. Aur rural areas mein toh rehne hi do. And this is despite it being illegal. 


The other issue is, there is no such tradition for the groom. The Groom is being called the all powerful Vishnu reincarnation and is not offered to incarnation of Goddess Lakshmi. 


There are many such issues that have crept in which stand against women empowerment. If people in power positions are bringing light to it, I do not see a problem with it. 


And to the people saying entertainment industry is Hinduphobic and has always been trying to put down Hindus. I think most of our movies and shows have Muslim villains, there are scenes showing Muslim villains / terrorists reading namaaz and then going out to kill innocents. indulging in illegal activities, etc. That is what the majority of the mainstream movies show and rightly so, because it reflects the reality of our times. If the same industry is showing the darker side of other religion, I do not see any issues in that because that too is a reality we live in

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Posted: 2 years ago
#42

Originally posted by: Krishnapanchali

i dont see any beauty in karwachauth if its only wife fasting for her husband s long life while huband does not and i dont understand kanyadaan so will refrain from speaking on it 

having said that i agree hindu religion is very liberal in lot of ways ( and regressive in other ways) it was even more liberal in ancient times we went from celebrating and worshiping  every human emotion including kama to not talking about it in name of 'sanskar'  the main reason for this being the mughal and british invasions 

even calling your husband 'my lord" and not taking their name does not comes under "hindu sanskar" if one reads ancient text both draupadi and sita called their spouse by given name 

also with all due respect i would like to see the reaction if any other religions revered figures called names that krishna gets called on daily basis or songs like "kalanki so and so" in the name of "creative liberty" and "freedom of speech" made about them kalanki means disgraceful bawal ho jayega 


https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/151580066

Historically, Karva Chauth was celebrated as a prayer for the long life of soldiers in the war, their wives would often pray for their safe return, and by extension today refers to the long life of a married husband. 

The festival also coincides with the wheat-sowing time (i.e., the beginning of the Rabi crop cycle). Big earthen pots in which wheat is stored are sometimes called Karvas, so the fast may have begun as a prayer for a good harvest in this predominantly wheat-eating Northwestern region.

Another story about the origin of this festival relates to the bond of feminine friendship. smiley37With the custom of arranged marriage being prevalent, the newlywed is supposed to reside with her husband and in-laws. Being new to the family, the custom arose of befriending another woman as her friend (kangan-saheli) or sister (dharam-behn) for life. The friendship would be sanctified through a Hindu ritual during the marriage ceremony itself. The bride's friend would usually be of the same age (or slightly older), typically married into the same village (so that she would not go away) and not directly related to her in-laws (so there was no conflict of interest later). A few days before Karva Chauth, married women would buy new karvas and paint them on the outside with beautiful designs. Inside, they would put bangles and ribbons, home-made candy and sweets, make-up items, and small clothes. The women would then visit each other on the day of Karva Chauth and exchange these karvas.

This emotional and psychological bond would be considered akin to a blood relationship. It is said that Karva Chauth festival evolved to include celebrating this special bond of friendship.smiley37

Ahan! KC is very regressive.smiley32



Plus this post:

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/151581470

Of course I will want my future wife to keep KC for me. I will also keep for her learning it from my brother who keeps every year with his wife. 

What else this festival brings in my family...  For my mother and sister in law in their busy lives, this festival gives them a reason to spend some time together shopping from what they gonna wear on that special day to everything that comes over pooja thali. On the very day they get up together for the sargi and eating before sunrise. Must say a very good bonding activity for newly weds and a ritual there on.

What else... yeah my sister in law when she went abroad... she used to tell her how loneliness she felt on foreign land but here come Karva Chauth she decides to visit temple and to her surprise many ladies are there celebrating together. She joins one of the groups... something interesting happens here... she suddenly has a large group to hang out now. 

What else... oh yea... loving all the photos of my brother share of my niece wearing traditional dress and enjoying getting mehandi in her hands and playing with other kids while her mother doing her thing in the temple. 

Such a vibrant festival is KC... that i refuse to see it as a social peril.. i see about love and enjoying little moments and bonds family together.

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Posted: 2 years ago
#43

Originally posted by: Zeal17


https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/151580066

Historically, Karva Chauth was celebrated as a prayer for the long life of soldiers in the war, their wives would often pray for their safe return, and by extension today refers to the long life of a married husband. 


Girls are doing jobs which put them in danger as well now - the tradition should extend the other way really, else it will always be frowned upon as unequal and unfair. Rightfully so

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Posted: 2 years ago
#44

Originally posted by: CrimeMasterToto


That is nice to read and thanks for sharing it. I did not know most of it. I then refered to this, and you are quite right: https://penguin.co.in/understanding-the-kanyaadaan-ceremony-an-excerpt-from-vedic-wedding-book/

But one point I still find troublesome. 

With this in my mind, and with this ritual and before the ceremonial water is poured,

May I offer you, who are in the form of Vishnu, my daughter

in the form of Lakshmi.

Incarnation of Goddess Lakshmi (bride) is still being offered to incarnation of Vishnu (groom), while the opposite doesn't happen. It does come down to ownership of the woman being carried over from the parents to the groom and his family. 


And that is also fine, really to an extent. The real problem IMO is, some of these rituals have gotten corrupted over time - by us practicing Hindus and the preachers, to suit one gender. Kanya being interpreted as Godess Lakshmi has led to the tradition of dowry which leads to other domestic crimes against women. There is no justification for dowry, especially in well off families, but it still happens even in the biggest metros and cities and with the richest families. Aur rural areas mein toh rehne hi do. And this is despite it being illegal. 


The other issue is, there is no such tradition for the groom. The Groom is being called the all powerful Vishnu reincarnation and is not offered to incarnation of Goddess Lakshmi. 


There are many such issues that have crept in which stand against women empowerment. If people in power positions are bringing light to it, I do not see a problem with it. 


Offered word is misinterpreted in translation. You cannot offer something which already belongs to someone else. 


We cant degrade a religion because of the corrupted people. Pandit are the worse. I follow my own religion and connected with god in my own way. There is no middlemen involved. Coming to the point of Vishnu and Lakshmi there is a backstory here as well which cannot be explained in just posts. I can only direct you to path to seek the truth the rest is on your curiosity to seek that. 

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Posted: 2 years ago
#45

Originally posted by: CrimeMasterToto


Girls are doing jobs which put them in danger as well now - the tradition should extend the other way really, else it will always be frowned upon as unequal and unfair. Rightfully so


Read the entire post please!. Rituals and customs have evolved.. at least in family where couple keep karva together .. but why are we stuck up on just the fasting part there are so many facets to this festival which I have mentioned in that post. and still we end up fighting why wife only fasts. Sigh!

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Posted: 2 years ago
#46

Originally posted by: Zeal17


Offered word is misinterpreted in translation. You cannot offer something which already belongs to someone else. 


We cant degrade a religion because of the corrupted people. Pandit are the worse. I follow my own religion and connected with god in my own way. There is no middlemen involved. Coming to the point of Vishnu and Lakshmi there is a backstory here as well which cannot be explained in just posts. I can only direct you to path to seek the truth the rest is on your curiosity to seek that. 


This is a bestseller and here too you say it is misinterpreted. The author is actually trying to show kanyadan in a good light, and it still comes off as not that great. Surely there is some issue here then. 


You can blame the teachers and preachers all you like, but a religion will be judged based on the practices followed by the common man. You may have your own religion to follow my friend and that is all well and good. But the majority do not follow it like that and have middlemen/women to facilitate their faith. 


As I mentioned in the other thread. We had a panditji come and recite Garuda purana. And it was basically saying that you need to have a son to achieve moksha and cross hell. Getting your last rites done by a distant relative who is a man, is better than getting it done by your own daughter. Things like these are wrong and need to be questioned. And now if you come and tell me that this is an issue with how that panditji interpreted the Purana, then basically we need to question how did the religious system get so corrupt that we have reached to a stage like this. You cannot keep blaming someone or the other for a problem that you are a part of. 

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Posted: 2 years ago
#47

Originally posted by: Zeal17


Read the entire post please!. Rituals and customs have evolved.. at least in family where couple keep karva together .. but why are we stuck up on just the fasting part there are so many facets to this festival which I have mentioned in that post. and still we end up fighting why wife only fasts. Sigh!


Because that is the biggest bone of contention here. The other parts of the story and not what is popular in mainstream. Every family I know where KC is celebrated, including mine, the idea is ki 'pati ki lambi umar ke liye vrat karo'. That is the essence of the festival in today's time and it is bound to be questioned during times when the fight for women's equality in all fields is raging. 


My wife doesnt do it, and I am absolutely glad that she doesn't do it. Pisses off my relatives so much. I do not want her fasting for my health by making that sacrifice. That too when she is spending as many hours as me at the office. Makes no sense, regardless of what happy stories might be associated with the festival historically

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Posted: 2 years ago
#48

And Zeal17, before you question my questioning your posts as being Hindu-phobic and pro-Islam, let me just put out this statement (even though I dont NEED to)


I think Islam is one of the most regressive religions in the world today and has failed to adapt and evolve with times. The subjugation of women that it encourages is pathetic

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Posted: 2 years ago
#49

I just looked up and saw the ad. In my personal opinion, it was respectfully done. I didn't find it to be shunning or dissing tradition, just questioning it and modifying it. As it is wedding rituals vary so dramatically by community even within Hinduism, I see no harm in changing/updating some rituals. I don't get why people are offended. 

I think questioning customs and traditions is a good thing. You don't have to stop following it or change your mind. But instead of finding anything blindly, I think it's important to learn how and why traditions came about and if it makes sense for you. I think rituals become a lot more meaningful when you know the story and context behind it. If people find sense and meaning in kanyadaan or karva chauth so be it. And it harm none, do as thou will. 

Personally, for me, both kanyadaan or karva chauth don't make sense. A while back, I would have fought that everyone should reject those traditions. But I've seen so many women and families take joy and meaning in these rituals. If it fulfills people, who am I to oppose. The only time I will question it is if people cannot explain why they celebrate or what meaning it gives them.

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Posted: 2 years ago
#50

Originally posted by: CrimeMasterToto


This is a bestseller and here too you say it is misinterpreted. The author is actually trying to show kanyadan in a good light, and it still comes off as not that great. Surely there is some issue here then. 


You can blame the teachers and preachers all you like, but a religion will be judged based on the practices followed by the common man. You may have your own religion to follow my friend and that is all well and good. But the majority do not follow it like that and have middlemen/women to facilitate their faith. 


As I mentioned in the other thread. We had a panditji come and recite Garuda purana. And it was basically saying that you need to have a son to achieve moksha and cross hell. Getting your last rites done by a distant relative who is a man, is better than getting it done by your own daughter. Things like these are wrong and need to be questioned. And now if you come and tell me that this is an issue with how that panditji interpreted the Purana, then basically we need to question how did the religious system get so corrupt that we have reached to a stage like this. You cannot keep blaming someone or the other for a problem that you are a part of. 


It may not come out as great but it isn't an evil as projected in society today. And people are all fighting just by the word Kanya and Daan. It doesnt starts with that and doesn't ends on that.


So you are telling me that because ill practitioners we overlook the good side of religion. Ab mein kya bolu Today generation wouldn't deep dive to seek the truth., Our society is heading for wrong path.