Arjun vs Bhim - Page 2

Bheem ofcourse.  

Bheen has always been his family s defender whether its kauravas , hidimba , Bakasur or keechak. Who killed all of them bheem did

Who understood that war means either to kill or get killed - bhim  arjuna on the other always needed krishna to keep telling him to fight and fight. Plus onl warrior he killed in the war was karna

Shinkandin gets more credit for bhism

And drona s death was combined effort of krishna yudhishtra drishtdyum and ofcourse bheem. 

And then the main one the crown prince whose death sealed the fate of the war - duryodhan.  had duryodhan picked arjuna over bheema for mace fight pandavas would have never won. Arjuna would have been long dead. Ofcourse duryodhan was a better mace fighter than bheema and it took treachery on bheema s part to give him the final blow but still if any of the pandava had it in them to challenge duryodhan it was bheem. 

The war would have been impossible had not been for bheem. 

Other people who i would say are not much appreciated are drishtdyum not much of a warrior but he did helped pandavas side a lot with his new strategies he did held his ground against different commanders of kaurvakas army,. Krishna,  shinkandin , abhimanyu ,satyaki  

There are times when i almost feel like shouting at arjuna. - What THE F*CK WERE YOU THINKING ITS A WAR. Pithu khelne thodi aya the🤪

From the power of body strength Bhima was the most powerful, he was also pretty good as a warrior in other forms be it archery or swords.

From a character perspective Bhima saw things black and white,for  his enemies he was ruthless anyone harming his family deserved tobe killed and he did not care much for rules, however for his loved ones he was very protective.

Arjuna was more of a karmayogi and was quite detached in some ways but was attached to a very few things namely his gandhiv, Krishna and Abhimanyu (probably because related to Krishna)

You seeing him love his family and even hesitating to participate in the war seeing his uncle, teacher and cousins but at the same time doing what his duty was

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Bheema killing 100 Kauravas was his oath, it wasn't like other people couldn't kill them, Like Sahdev had to kill Shakuni and Arjun had to kill Karna 

Since none is weighing in Arjun's support, I would go for it 🙃

The war would have been lost on 4 brother's failure to enter the chakravyuh where Jauadrath (who wasn't important) stopped all 4 brothers including Bhim outside the chakravyuh, the fact that they decided that Arjun's absence can lead to their victory is evidence enough of his strength 

Do you see taking Arjun away for one day landed them in back foot, that's the power I am talking about, This is where Arjun lost his son Abhimanyu too 

Arjun was a warrior who could use both of his hands efficiently, who could fight multiple warriors at a time

Arjun worked hard to learn about different weapons, He killed Bheeshma who was leading Kauravas and had killed over 100k warriors in the war till his death 

Arjun had defeated whole Kaurava army in Virat war alone, He didn't have Krushna as his charioteer 

I stated in my first post I am only talking about Kurukshetra and as per how much someone did there, what we KNOW. What you are talking about is a general conclusion. I also stated, somehow archery is made to be superior to other forms of warfare so naturally Arjun gets points here. Also its mentioned he was good at all forms of warfare in Gurukul. 

Secondly, I am a huge Arjun fan but I do not credit Arjun for Bhishma's death. Bhishma already gave away what had to be done and if we keep all divine interventions in, he had the Ichya Mrityu vardaan. Negating all that, yes Arjun was the one to defeat him. 

Arjun and Bhishma were definitely the most skilled of the warriors. But as per the no of kills, what work was done, Bheem does more than Arjun in the war. That's all. 

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

There are times when i almost feel like shouting at arjuna. - What THE F*CK WERE YOU THINKING ITS A WAR. Pithu khelne thodi aya the🤪

I also agree with the fact that Arjun was not interested in fighting. It's just my way of analysis of his character. 

Firstly, I don't believe Geeta was originally a part of the epic. IMO, Keshav just convinced him to fight. The whole Geeta was incorporated later. Now for the sake of argument, even if I consider Geeta Gyan is true, Arjun STILL WAS NOT fighting with all his might. 

Arjun is the same one who defeated the Kaurava army all alone in Virat war. He was also the one who fought with the Gandharvas, he was the one who fought with Drupad's army. I don't see any reason why he could not do the same in the war. Krishna had to keep telling him to fight, he guided him there too. 

Arjun was a pacifist, he wasn't half as interested as Karn was in killing him. He was someone who never expressed his emotions or desires upfront and IMHO he was not interested in fighting, neither was he craving for popularity or recognition. 

Arjun may have been more qualified than Bheem, but his actions didn't do as much as Bheem did. Hence my conclusion. 

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

I also agree with the fact that Arjun was not interested in fighting. It's just my way of analysis of his character. 

Firstly, I don't believe Geeta was originally a part of the epic. IMO, Keshav just convinced him to fight. The whole Geeta was incorporated later. Now for the sake of argument, even if I consider Geeta Gyan is true, Arjun STILL WAS NOT fighting with all his might. 

Arjun is the same one who defeated the Kaurava army all alone in Virat war. He was also the one who fought with the Gandharvas, he was the one who fought with Drupad's army. I don't see any reason why he could not do the same in the war. Krishna had to keep telling him to fight, he guided him there too. 

Arjun was a pacifist, he wasn't half as interested as Karn was in killing him. He was someone who never expressed his emotions or desires upfront and IMHO he was not interested in fighting, neither was he craving for popularity or recognition. 

Arjun may have been more qualified than Bheem, but his actions didn't do as much as Bheem did. Hence my conclusion. 

Irawati Karve said only first 4 chapters of Gita were real. Rest were later interpolations. The first 4 chapters sound like 2 good friends talking. The rest is god and devotee.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Irawati Karve said only first 4 chapters of Gita were real. Rest were later interpolations. The first 4 chapters sound like 2 good friends talking. The rest is god and devotee.

Yes, I know. Infact speaking of her work, if you already haven't, do read Yuganta. It's a fantastic read. 

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

If you are just talking about strength, then Bheem naturally as he was physically big and fit. 

Coming to skills as warrior, Bheem deserves more credit at least as far as Kurukshetra is concerned because he did much more than Arjun did. Now I think TV serial have given us this strange conception that archery is more superior than any other form of weaponry. I don't know much truth there is in this matter. If we go by that, Arjun will naturally be considered greater. 

But I think Bheem was much more willing to work and fight than Arjun, even if Arjun is more skilled. 

Arjun also had Krishna (Vishnu) and Hanuman (part Shiva) on his chariot.  Bhima didn't.  Let's not imagine that that wasn't a factor

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Bheema killing 100 Kauravas was his oath, it wasn't like other people couldn't kill them, Like Sahdev had to kill Shakuni and Arjun had to kill Karna 

Since none is weighing in Arjun's support, I would go for it 🙃

The war would have been lost on 4 brother's failure to enter the chakravyuh where Jauadrath (who wasn't important) stopped all 4 brothers including Bhim outside the chakravyuh, the fact that they decided that Arjun's absence can lead to their victory is evidence enough of his strength 

Do you see taking Arjun away for one day landed them in back foot, that's the power I am talking about, This is where Arjun lost his son Abhimanyu too 

Arjun was a warrior who could use both of his hands efficiently, who could fight multiple warriors at a time

Arjun worked hard to learn about different weapons, He killed Bheeshma who was leading Kauravas and had killed over 100k warriors in the war till his death 

Arjun had defeated whole Kaurava army in Virat war alone, He didn't have Krushna as his charioteer 

Actually, it was Bhima who made the vow that Arjun would kill Karna and Sahadev would kill Shakuni.  Therefore, they had to fulfill it, since he was their elder.  While Karna may have been unmatched by the other Pandavas (aside from Bhima), Shakuni could have been slain by any of Draupadi's kids as well: it didn't have to be Sahadev.

Yeah, Bhima made that oath, but anyone could have killed the Dhartarashtras.  For instance, Dhrishtadymna, who lost every one of his battles against Drona, Kripa, Ashwatthama and Karna, easily defeated Duryodhan on day 18 and forced him to flee from the battlefield.  If he could do that, he could have killed any number of Kauravas.

On the Chakravyuha penetration, it required a skill that only 4 warriors had - Arjun, Krishna, Pradhyumna and Abhimanyu.  But just b'cos Arjun had a certain skill that Bhima didn't didn't make him an all-round superior to Bhima.  Also, Jayadrath had a specific boon from Shiva that he'd defeat 4 of the Pandavas on a given day, but not Arjun.  That wasn't due to Arjun's superiority: it's b'cos Shiva had already given Arjun the Pasupathastra, so he couldn't bless someone else that Arjun would be defeated.

Remember, on day 14, Arjun lost a lot of time fighting Drona, and ultimately, Krishna persuaded him to just bypass him w/o necessarily subduing him.  Yudhisthir later sent Satyaki, and then Bhima to find out whether Arjun was safe.  When Bhima fought Drona, he broke 100 of his chariots before passing him, which Arjun either couldn't or didn't.

That goes 5-0 in Bheem's favor