Your thoughts on... Karn? - Page 5

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Agni_Jytsona thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: Sanskruthi


But he never had what ifs in his mind,  tells me manipulation failed, that is if Krishna intended to manipulate it.  Actually Krishna did visit Karna again when Bhishma was the chief,  but yeah the later could be debated for being Krishna mocking Karna (but that's subjective for me he was trying to instigate Karna since Bhishma wouldn't allow him on battlefield) 

I do have questions for Karna,  but those are because of the poet leaving loopholes and I made peace with them saying Vyasa forgot to mention or Karna was a dementia patient. ðŸ˜† 

The fact that he gave away promise to not kill four of five pandavas  including  the one who is the king i.s, yudhishtra and whose would have meant end of the war says enough how well the manipulation worked  kunti did not even ask for it but still he gave says alot about how well krishna played 

Sanskruthi thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

The fact that he gave away promise to not kill four of five pandavas  including  the one who is the king i.s, yudhishtra and whose would have meant end of the war says enough how well the manipulation worked  kunti did not even ask for it but still he gave says alot about how well krishna played 


Thats clearly a perspective. Krishna didn't know kunti was going to approach Karna now did he? ðŸ¤” plus it was Karna who asked not to reveal the truth to yudhi as he would give up the throne now why Krishna didn't approach yudhi first is quite clear. 

About kunti Karna just gave modified version of what she went there for yes bio mom card played the role here, but I don't see that as manipulation for me he was trying to do good even by his bio mom.

  Reminds me at that time she said some in the lines of don't let Suta epithet attach to you😛 

Edited by Sanskruthi - 4 years ago
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Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: Sanskruthi


Thats clearly a perspective. Krishna didn't know kunti was going to approach Karna now did he? ðŸ¤”

This is krishna. Krishna  ofcourse he knew i think both aunt and nephew planned this together to give these small doses to  karna  because they knew how karna was extremely self centered so they played with it and used his nature his ever increasing need to prove himself better than arjun( which was why he promised only for YBNS and not arjuna) and his need for fame against himself and as we can see the plan worked well  .  Krishna is not called master politician for no reason only person who always understood meaning behind his words was the other krishnaa i.e, panchali . These two played well overall and kunti in this particular case.  

Sanskruthi thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

This is krishna. Krishna  ofcourse he knew i think both aunt and nephew planned this together to give these small doses to  karna  because they knew how karna was extremely self centered so they played with it and used his nature his ever increasing need to prove himself better than arjun( which was why he promised only for YBNS and not arjuna) and his need for fame against himself and as we can see the plan worked well  .  Krishna is not called master politician for no reason only person who always understood meaning behind his words was the other krishnaa i.e, panchali . These two played well overall and kunti in this particular case.  

That's again perspective because you think😳nowhere that gets mentioned.  I can differ plus I edited my post above to present my POV

I don't want to debate 

@B you kidding me right?  You dont expect him to even pardon Arjuna's life😲 that really too much expectations from karna😕

well I clearly think differently. Nothing can be done to change ours.  Let's respect that. 

NoraSM thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

Why would Yudhishtira give up his Throne for Karna? Karna wasn't Pandu's son and Yudhishtira did not get the Throne for being Kunti's son

HearMeRoar thumbnail
Posted: 4 years ago


See , you keep arguing THIS was hyperbole. Perhaps.


Even if the world gives you that, nothing changes the fact Karna did plan and execute 


1. poisoning on a child only AFTER WHICH Bheema called him names. What would you do if you came face to face with someone who tried to kill you? Name-calling was probably the least Bheema could do. Trust me, a normal person would be going at the wannabe killer with every weapon. Point out one spot where Bheema or Pandavas attacked Karna, verbally or otherwise, prior to the murder attempt? Bheema had his issues with Kaurava, and when Karna went as far as to try and kill a child, he got called names. THAT was based on his evil deeds, not because he was born a suta.


2. sexual assault on Panchali. He did call her a bandhaki, which doesn't mean unchaste. It means courtesan a.k.a court wh*re. He also told her to pick one of the men to have sex with after which he asked Dusshassan to take her to inner apartments. Surely, even a supporter of Karna can't imagine he meant playing dice in the inner apartment after his comment about intercourse with the other men in the court.


3. his kingdom, Anga, was the centre of sex trafficking for women and children


4. he verbally abused lower castes and women in Shalya Parva.


There is no point of view justification possible for any of this. 


Moreover, I'd like you to apply some thought to this: Krishna's comments/offer is a go-to justification for Karna supporters. 


1. Krishna was telling Arjuna not to underestimate the enemy which is pretty sound advice. Krishna said the same about Suyodhana. Nowhere does it say Krishna thought well of either villain.


2. Krishna promised Panchali TWICE he'd make sure Karna was dead. So if the offer were accurate, he was lying to Panchali. If the offer were inaccurate, Krishna was lying to Karna. Take a guess who Krishna was lying to. FYI. Krishna tells Arjuna it is perfectly fine to lie to an enemy.


3. if none of this convinces you... Krishna had no legal right to offer empire, let alone Panchali. He was sent as an emissary to negotiate peace, not hand over empire to Karna. As Karna himself admitted and Krishna was shrewd enough to know, Karna's connection to Suyodhana meant the empire would immediately pass to Suyodhana (the legitimacy, I mean, since Kurus already had physical possession).


4. Krishna was not Panchali's father or brother or husband or son to offer her to anyone. He had no legal standing to make that offer. 


5. Vedic rules say a younger brother could marry older brother's wife, but not the reverse. Wife of a younger brother is akin to daughter. Panchali was akin to daughter FIVE TIMES OVER for Karna. 


I'm sure he was intelligent enough to know all of the above and recognize Krishna's tactics for what they were: psychological warfare.


At the moment of Karna's death, Krishna ripped into him. Now, you say it was instigate Arjuna. You know what would have instigated Arjuna? Reminding him of the son who died only 3 days prior and how Karna was part of the gang which killed him. Krishna didn't mention Abhimanyu (not in CE). He mentioned Panchali twice and Yudhishtira once (there was a 4th reason which I forgot) as justifications for Karna's death sentence.


No, Krishna was nowhere neutral towards Karna. Krishna wanted Karna dead and pulled every trick in the book to make it happen.

Edited by HearMeRoar - 4 years ago
NoraSM thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

What did Arjun ever do to Karna? (Apart from defeating him in every face off), I don't get the reason for this enmity from Karna's side, I understand from Arjun's side, for Karna encourages harassment of his wife and killed his son like a coward

Sanskruthi thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Why would Yudhishtira give up his Throne for Karna? Karna wasn't Pandu's son and Yudhishtira did not get the Throne for being Kunti's son


That was Karna's POV not mine😊

Sanskruthi thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: NoraSM

What did Arjun ever do to Karna? (Apart from defeating him in every face off), I don't get the reason for this enmity from Karna's side, I understand from Arjun's side, for Karna encourages harassment of his wife and killed his son like a coward


Arjun did not defeat him in every face off. I don't support Karna's calling drau unchaste,  it would be foolish.  Karna only broke Abhimanyu bow in a fair fight...  It was Drona's idea to catch abhi 

NoraSM thumbnail
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Posted: 4 years ago

Originally posted by: Sanskruthi


That was Karna's POV not mine😊

Obviously, We weren't there. 

Why would Karna think that Yudhishtira would give him his Throne? There's no legitimate reason for it or he was just bluffing 🤔