Your thoughts on... Karn? - Page 3

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

(CE, Vol 7, Chapter 1177) This is where Karna offers 100 virgins as well as his wives and sons to any soldier who could help him spot ARjuna and Krishna

(CE, Vol 7, Chapter 1180)  This is during the argument with Shalya where Shalya taunts Karna with the sex trafficking ring in Anga.

Check the corresponding chapters in KMG. Both bits are there.

There are also quotes of Karna's own casteism and sexism in the argument with Shalya. The whole convo is revelatory of the man's loathsome character. 

Due to length of MBH, I try to read my favourite bits and avoid chapters about characters I dislike 😂

Thank you. I will check. 

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

On the contrary he was the most confused character he apparently sided with his best friend duryodhan in the war but also gave a promise to spare his four "brothers".so i don't understand what he was trying to do  . Loyal to nobody not even to his best friend. I would say he was just a pawn in a game of dice whom krishna manipulated well  somebody who was petty enough to go forest and mock others miseries .

That's how you look at it,  for him he tried his best to do right by all For his bio Momma Kunti by sparing her 4 sons, (contrary to popular belief she did not ask Karna to spare her sons), he stood by his friend by fighting war for him knowing the consequences and tried to kill Arjuna.

He was not manipulated by Krishna he turned down his offer and did not do the any circus like declaring curses or participate after knowing truth about his birth from Krishna, he simply accepted it. I mean, I believe a raise was expected of him considering even Yudhi could not take the revelation lightly. 

I believe Krishna genuinely wanted him to side pandavas considering he visited Karna again in the field. 

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

I have another Theory about karna and that is the character itself is later interpolation. Because i fail to understand how kunti was able to hide her 9 months pregnancy its practically impossible that she bore a child in her womb for 9 months and nobody knew ??

 I do think he was a later addition  as well😆 but for different set of reasons 

Originally posted by: Sanskruthi

That's how you look at it,  for him he tried his best to do right by all For his bio Momma Kunti by sparing her 4 sons, (contrary to popular belief she did not ask Karna to spare her sons), he stood by his friend by fighting war for him knowing the consequences and tried to kill Arjuna.

He was not manipulated by Krishna he turned down his offer and did not do the any circus like declaring curses or participate after knowing truth about his birth from Krishna, he simply accepted it. I mean, I believe a raise was expected of him considering even Yudhi could not take the revelation lightly. 

I believe Krishna genuinely wanted him to side pandavas considering he visited Karna again in the field. 

He also was quite brutal to Karna at the moment of his killing. If we go by death being the great truth serum, Krishna wanted Karna dead. Period.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

He also was quite brutal to Karna at the moment of his killing. If we go by death being the great truth serum, Krishna wanted Karna dead. Period.

Karna was going to die even he knew that. About his killing he did that to instigate Arjuna because Krishna has even sung praises for karna

-i do agree that Suta is supposedly a sub caste of Kshatriya but Karna was considered low born by many.  Bhima called him a dog,  yudhi insulted him even Bheeshma and shalya. So yes he somehow was a victim of caste

-about citations first one it was done probably to motivate the army,  just exaggeration....  Exaggeration is used by even  by Krishna when he says he would share his wives with Arjuna😛 Karna is even praised by Sanjaya here so........

-About Karna shalya parva that is one of the most bitter conversation in the epic, Karna was his best or say worst version of bitter there 

Originally posted by: Sanskruthi

Karna was going to die even he knew that. About his killing he did that to instigate Arjuna because Krishna has even sung praises for karna

No, Krishna said Karna was a great warrior. Krishna asked Arjuna not to underestimate the enemy. Krishna didn't sing Karna's praises as a human except during the flattery episode.

Krishna was quite brutal to Karna at the time of his death. If believing Krishna did that to provoke Arjuna, then believing Krishna made the offer to Karna to dishearten him should be even easier.  Same principle, but also more background  to make it believable. Because Arjuna and Pandavas and Panchali were Krishna's friends. Karna was not. In fact, Krishna swears an oath to Panchali to kill Karna. Which of the conversations would you believe was truthful? The one Krishna had with Panchali or the one he had with Karna? Also, note: Krishna tells Arjuna that lying to the enemy is quite acceptable.

Yeah, the offers were fake.

Originally posted by: Sanskruthi

-i do agree that Suta is supposedly a sub caste of Kshatriya but Karna was considered low born by many.  Bhima called him a dog,  yudhi insulted him even Bheeshma and shalya. So yes he somehow was a victim of caste

-about citations first one it was done probably to motivate the army,  just exaggeration....  Exaggeration is used by even  by Krishna when he says he would share his wives with Arjuna😛 Karna is even praised by Sanjaya here so........

-About Karna shalya parva that is one of the most bitter conversation in the epic, Karna was his best or say worst version of bitter there 

Krishna never says he would share his wives. He says Arjuna was more important to him than his wives. Major difference, my friend.

Karna was no victim of caste. He got everything he wanted. Bheema called him a dog because Karna helped the Kauravas in their murder attempts on Pandavas. Believe me, so would you in the same situation.

Shalya doesn't insult him on basis of caste. Shalya insults Karna as inferior to Arjuna and Krishna. OTOH, Karna goes off on a tirade and insults all lower castes in the same conversation along with women.

If you have Harivamsa, check out Karna's bloodline. He was born in Ramchandra's dynasty. Yes, THAT Ramchandra. Karna was no poor, lower caste boy.

My internet is betraying me😒 or else I'd have searched for other citations too 

Yudhishthira said, 'There are men who belong to the mixed castes, and who are of very impure birth. Though presenting the features of respectability, they are in reality disrespectable. In consequence of these external aspects we may not be able to know the truth about their birth.

Reference - Shanti Parv, 13

Yes everyone did ridicule him for his caste, there areany instances

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

No, Krishna said Karna was a great warrior. Krishna asked Arjuna not to underestimate the enemy. Krishna didn't sing Karna's praises as a human except during the flattery episode.

Krishna was quite brutal to Karna at the time of his death. If believing Krishna did that to provoke Arjuna, then believing Krishna made the offer to Karna to dishearten him should be even easier.  Same principle, but also more background  to make it believable. Because Arjuna and Pandavas and Panchali were Krishna's friends. Karna was not. In fact, Krishna swears an oath to Panchali to kill Karna. Which of the conversations would you believe was truthful? The one Krishna had with Panchali or the one he had with Karna? Also, note: Krishna tells Arjuna that lying to the enemy is quite acceptable.

Yeah, the offers were fake.

Krushna reminded Karna of every wrong deed done and supported by him, from trying to burn Pandavas alive to Draupadi's humiliation and Abhimanyu's cowardly murder. The great warrior couldn't defeat Arjun's son by fair means, he had to cheat and kill him

Karna's conduct with Draupadi off the battle field and Abhimanyu on the battle field are enough to tell how righteous and heroic he was as a warrior, where his archenemy Arjun defeated him in every chance he got