Gandhararaj Shakuni- An Analysis - Page 2

Superb post.

Originally posted by: Brahmaputra

Ramya - Dury threatened him of suicide if Ps were not attacked and killed and then Shakuni came up with DS plan. Dury also had threatened Karna with suicide if Ps were not killed in Kamyaka vana during their Vana Vasa but Karna came up with the idea of Ghoshayatra. Once I used to think Shakuni was the mastermind behind everything but in reality he was not. I choose to stick with Mahabharata here, not what majority people believe. After reading the book, I can see only that he did wrong by coming up with the idea of DS. But he had not initially meant to get all brothers and Draupadi as slaves, if I am not wrong. That was done by Yudhi. I don't see any reason for Shakuni's all deeds except his love for Dury. Without proper evidences, I cannot support other views. If we can find something in the epic, we shall. And your post is very informative. I knew nothing about Shakuni. Not even his sons' names.

Thanks for telling me about the suicide thing, i did not know about it.
Yes, the idea of DS was his and that was wrong in his part. No i do not think he intended on doing that before and his only motive was to win the wealth of the pandavas for dury. But when yudi started on wagering his brothers, he made him wager drau too. So he has to be blamed for persuading yudi into wagering drau too. And everything he did out of his love for dury. Yes, the revenge thing is not mentioned in the mahabharata so it does not have plenty of evidence. But they chose to show in star mb from the very first promo, if i am not wrong they showed it in the 'pehli jhalak' and there was something like 'ye kahani hai shakuni ke pratishodh ki'. And in SPK they showed a more foolish thing in the epi yesterday, him injuring himself for dury and vowing revenge on drau by disrobing her in the assembly for a so called insult of dury that never happened. That is why i included this view too in my post just to specify how he got that wound and the limp as a view which is widely accepted.And just wanted to know if anyone here accepts that view too.
ThanksEdited by ramya06 - 8 years ago

Originally posted by: Sabhayata

Regarding DS like i said his role in it is far lesser than what Pandavas themselves and Karna and Dury played.

Hence i don't blame him much

Yes he did come with the idea of DS to win Yudi's riches for Dury's sake.But even Yudi went to play so that he can win Dury's kingdom which Yudi himself accepts during Vana parva.So if Shakuni is wrong here so is Yudi.In any case in those days people used to fight wars to win other's Kingdoms so i don't see the big deal in playing dice game for the same.So i wouldn't blame Shakuni or Yudi here

No VH wasn't preplanned nor was it planned to make Pandavs salves.Yudi did that all by himself.

Yes he did suggest Yudi to stake Drau but Yudi was a fool to accept it.Shakuni certainly didn't force Yudi to accept his offer.

Again even if we say Shakuni was some what wrong in DS his wrong is nothing in front of what Pandavas ,Karna and Dury did

Regarding stories about Shakuni's revenge on Kuruvansh not sure which version of MB is this from.I have read CE and KMG and didn't find any such story of revenge in them.Neither there is any incident that indicates Shakuni wanted revenge and wanted to destroy Kuru clan.So until i read about it in some version i wont believe in these stories.

I agree that even yudi wanted to win dury's riches and that is why he played. According to the first view where he has revengeful motives, he may have preplanned everything. But if the second view that has mahabharat for its evidence considered ,it turns out that it was not. So i think it somewhere depends on which view you accept.
The things shown wrongly in the epi made me include both the views but i would also go for the second view going by mahabharata.

Originally posted by: shipreeta

Superb post.

I have always been saying that the biggest proof (as I feel) that Mahabharat is true and not some fiction as some "Modern people" say is that all the characters here are real. No one is absolutely wrong and no one is Doodh ka dhula (of course contrary to what the TV serials and the great writers like Shivaji Sawant potray).

Coming to the post, till date people try to defend all the Kaurav side characters- Karna is now a Doodh ka dhula, Dury is a stupid and innocent lad just to be manipulated by Shakuni to such an extent that he forgets the difference of right and wrong, Dushy was doing what his bro said, but among all these poor Shakuni has to bear the burden of all the wrong deeds of others.

First of all no where in Mahabharat it is mentioned that Shakuni cheated in Dwit Sabha If he did why didn't Bheeshm or Vidur object on this cheating, at leas they should have mentioned. Saying that Shakuni cheated in DS is like a child who came second in the exam saying that the child who came first cheated (or Bangladesh saying that one ball in the India- Bangladesh World Cup 2015 QuarterFinal was a no ball😆)

I wont be surprised if in SPK it is Shakuni who proposes to have a DS so that he can make Pandavas+Draupadi a slave but we all know this is far from truth.

Bheem poising was definitely Shakuni's idea, but after that he always played a second (rather fourth) fiddle. The decision makers were generally Dury, Dushy and Karna)

Even if Dwit Sabha was his idea, it was much lesser a sin than what Yudi did. Contrary to the common belief, he did not "Have to" play the game, king Nala from Satayug is hugely criticized for gambling and hence saying that he couldn't stop due to virtue is just a white washing.

I feel that just Dury has become the scapegoat for Karna's defenders, Shakuni is the scapegoat for Dury's action

Thanks!
Yes, in mahabharat every character has his own flaws and there is no one who is an absolute villain. Well said!
Shakuni did not cheat and that is for sure. Again going back to both the versions and both the views. If we go by the first view then his dice would obey his command having been made by his father's bone as is the story. But in the second view he won by pure skill. But neither one shows any cheating or treachery on his part.
That is what they precisely showed! They showed him hurting himself and creating that limp and vowing to avenge the andhe ka putra andha thing by disrobing her in the assembly! And that is what made me make this post on shakuni.
Yes, bheema poisoning was his game plan. And i think dhrit played a greater role in that seed of jealousy being sown in dury's mind. But as i said before, in this post i put forward two different views on shakuni.
Sometimes, i do wonder if yudi actually deserved that 'dharmraj' tag. But lets not talk of yudi here because its a discussion on shakuni.Edited by ramya06 - 8 years ago

Originally posted by: ramya06

Thanks!
Yes, in mahabharat every character has his own flaws and there is no one who is an absolute villain. Well said!
Shakuni did not cheat and that is for sure. Again going back to both the versions and both the views. If we go by the first view then his dice would obey his command having been made by his father's bone as is the story. But in the second view he won by pure skill. But neither one shows any cheating or treachery on his part.
That is what they precisely showed! They showed him hurting himself and creating that limp and vowing to avenge the andhe ka putra andha thing by disrobing her in the assembly! And that is what made me make this post on shakuni.
Yes, bheema poisoning was his game plan. And i think dhrit played a greater role in that seed of jealousy being sown in dury's mind. But as i said before, in this post i put forward two different views on shakuni.
Sometimes, i do wonder if yudi actually deserved that 'dharmraj' tag. But lets not talk of yudi here because its a discussion on shakuni.

@Shipreeta- Yes, it is not mentioned in the epic that the dice obeyed him. So,if we just go by the epic, he did not cheat and even if we accept the other stories then as you said it cannot be considered as treachery. Regarding bheem's vow, i agree with you. When dury was born, there was a prophecy that he would be the cause of destruction of his race. So vidur asked dhrit to abandon him but dhrit did not. And mainly it was always dury and dushi who were the wrongdoers. And bheem wanted to save vikarna because it was only vikarna among all the kauravas who stood up against drau's humiliation though i have a strong feeling in this show it would be karna instead!
And yes if we accept the first view and the story of shakuni's revenge, the war seems to be between bheeshma and shakuni because shakuni wanted to avenge bheeshma according to this.

Nice post Ramya. You analysed Sakuni's Charecter well. But I refuse to believe Sakuni revenge story as it is not mentioned in the Epic. I believe he is more skilful in Dice game and cleverly won it for Dury. But Sakuni should not be blamed for whatever happened in the Dice hall. Yudhi is responsible for their loss . When he realised that the opponent is more competent in the game he should have withdrawn from the game there itself. Or he should have said like Sakuni is playing on behalf of Duryothan He would let Krishna play for his sake. In Mahabhagawat Krishna tells the same to Uddhava when he questioned him why he did not prevent Pandavas' downfall. ' Had Yudhi invited me I would have played. If I played No Sakuni would have won."Lord says thus. Unless we earnestly call him Lord won't come to our rescue. Draupadi prayed heartfully so Krishna graced her. So I agree mostly with Shiprita that Sakuni should not be blamed for each and every thing that happened in the lives of Pandavas.

Originally posted by: ramya06

@Shipreeta- Yes, it is not mentioned in the epic that the dice obeyed him. So,if we just go by the epic, he did not cheat and even if we accept the other stories then as you said it cannot be considered as treachery. Regarding bheem's vow, i agree with you. When dury was born, there was a prophecy that he would be the cause of destruction of his race. So vidur asked dhrit to abandon him but dhrit did not. And mainly it was always dury and dushi who were the wrongdoers. And bheem wanted to save vikarna because it was only vikarna among all the kauravas who stood up against drau's humiliation though i have a strong feeling in this show it would be karna instead!
And yes if we accept the first view and the story of shakuni's revenge, the war seems to be between bheeshma and shakuni because shakuni wanted to avenge bheeshma according to this.

Originally posted by: ltelidevara

Nice post Ramya. You analysed Sakuni's Charecter well. But I refuse to believe Sakuni revenge story as it is not mentioned in the Epic. I believe he is more skilful in Dice game and cleverly won it for Dury. But Sakuni should not be blamed for whatever happened in the Dice hall. Yudhi is responsible for their loss . When he realised that the opponent is more competent in the game he should have withdrawn from the game there itself. Or he should have said like Sakuni is playing on behalf of Duryothan He would let Krishna play for his sake. In Mahabhagawat Krishna tells the same to Uddhava when he questioned him why he did not prevent Pandavas' downfall. ' Had Yudhi invited me I would have played. If I played No Sakuni would have won."Lord says thus. Unless we earnestly call him Lord won't come to our rescue. Draupadi prayed heartfully so Krishna graced her. So I agree mostly with Shiprita that Sakuni should not be blamed for each and every thing that happened in the lives of Pandavas.

Thanks Lakshmi! I too am not in very much favour of the revenge thing but wanted to present both the views here. But no one actually seems to believe in it here! I agree, shakuni only proposed the game and he cannot be held responsible for VH though he made yudi wager draupadi. Yes, you are right, if lord krishna had played he would have certainly won the game for the pandavas.Shakuni could not be blamed for everything if we believe the mahabharata alone but there are many who still think that way.

Originally posted by: shipreeta

@Bold I know that. What I meant in my post was that although it was only Vikarna who stood for Draupadi, Bheem did vow to kill him by taking a vow of killing 100 Kauravas. Also it is pretty sure that the rest of 97 brothers too did not have much of a role to play here.  If that could be considered a love for Draupadi then Shakuni's revenge from the entire Kuru clan can definitely be justified if the Kuru clan had killed his father and 99 brothers.

@Red this is the best line I read on internet today,😆😆 

To be frank going by the show this is not very improbable, however I remember that when the teenage clan was introduced, Vikarana was the only Kaurav excluding Dury and Dushy to be shown I feel that he would have a role to play. I guess that Karna would want to ask Dury to stop the disrobing, when Shon will appear asking him not to go against his friend as it might anger Dury further, or might be Karna will realize that if he supports Draupadi directly, then Dury would get a feeling that "Draupadi ne na sirf mera bhari sabha me apmaan kiya, balki mere eklaute mitra ko bhi mujhse cheen liya" which would anger him further resulting in further humiliation of Draupadi, so he would not directly stand for Draupadi but ask Vikarna to speak for her. Also when Dury will not listen to Vikarna, Karna will pray to Krishna for saving Draupadi.

Wow nice track na?

Yes, that is what i intended on saying by mentioning the prophecy at the time of dury's birth. He and dushi were the only ones who committed the sin and should be blamed and not the others. But vikarna was completely different from the rest. In fact, i am writing an SS on karna-vikarna-yuyutsu where i am planning to include that bheema- vikarna fight and their conversation too. Yes, if for once if we believe the revenge story then that too can be justified.
Really? They showed vikarna that time? I did not know of it because i started watching very late. Actually i watched the first few episodes and then left because it was the height of distortion that time. Again started watching when mahabharat type things came and GR was introduced and when elder arjun came in.Then maybe they might show vikarna's role as it was in the epic without any butchering, at least we can hope so.
Yes, a nice track indeed!😆And chances are that they show something like this.