Debate Championship III-4th and 5th Aug - Page 7

Originally posted by: T.

[quote=]So what? Are homosexuals not humans? Are they hurting someone?

And homosexuality was not uncommon in ancient times. In Japanese Samurai tradition, homosexuality definitely existed among teachers and disciples. (http://www.stthomasu.ca/~parkhill/cj01/irepam.htm)

Also, here is some more info about homosexuality...it was a part of our culture ...we are merely reverting back to it ... 😃

"Homosexuality has an ancient history in India. Ancient texts like Rig-Veda which dates back around 1500 BC and sculptures and vestiges depict sexual acts between women as revelations of a feminine world where sexuality was based on pleasure and fertility [1]. The description of homosexual acts in the Kamasutra, the Harems of young boys kept by Muslim Nawabs and Hindu Aristocrats, male homosexuality in the Medieval Muslim history, evidences of sodomy in the Tantric rituals are some historical evidences of same-sex relationships. [2]

However, these experiences started losing their significance with the advent of Vedic Brahmanism and, later on, of British Colonialism. Giti claims that Aryan invasion dating to 1500 B.C began to suppress homosexuality through the emerging dominance of patriarchy. [3] " (http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/grhf-asia/suchana/0909/rh374.htm l)

I know all that but that wasn legal i guess! even i dont have the rite tern wid me but girls in kotha or sumthing they still do their stuiff and but its nto legal - its not written on any legal papers that is allowed therfore, is NOt a part of culture I shud say not socially acceptable!!

And same with the thinsg you mentioned - not legal means not sociially acceptable which means not a part of our cultre! [/quote]

Faulty statement. Legality and social "acceptance" are very different things. Homosexuality is legal in Canada, but Homosexuals are still not openly accepted!

Divorce is legal in India, but divorced women are treated like pariahs!

Moreover, the ideology of homosexuality being "bad" came from foreigners - as I've already mentioned above.

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yes, i agree that some trends are not accepted by the society!!! Ehat is legal and what is not ..is what is our culture, our society in the eys of other countries!
 

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[quote=] Heart Girl, I am replying paragraph by paragraph as You are doing.. and By the way..from where our politians got the idea of woman liberasim and feminism?? Ok movement chahe koi bhi chali ho i don really care all i said that that it was implemented on this date by the politicians..ab har country mein law ko implement karne wale to politicians hi hote..meri baat apne bahut buri tarah marordi hai iDK how to explain now😕[/quote]

 

To humne kab kaha ki implementation was by the West? Implementation was by our people, influenced by the West.  

 

 

 Teh green girl had confused like Influenced by west but had they not thought of anything while actualli implementing it..some reasongs must have been there - to why women shud b given rite to vote - why shud have the say in political systems? They DIDNOT blindly copy the west!

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What we just said..."Influence" not blind copying...

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Ok so you are saying that  "influence" actually made us give women rights? Mayb - i dont knw what were they (who implementeD) were thiking of!

Influence in other terms can be dangerious as well! take for example the influence of a bad company takes you from a normal person to something else. This western "influence" can be as dangerious as that!

 

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[quote=]From where women got the realization of "Fighting for their right" it was the theory and movement of feminism which created a stirr in the world..not only South Asia!! Politicians, From where they took the inspiration?? From where they were educated?? What do u mean here? Were indian politicians illetrate?😕

 

Of course she doesn't mean that, but there were literate people who were narrow minded (or ignorant) about Issues like women's rights.

First u said these people weer educated under your so called western system and now you are calling them ignorant? [/quote]

 

You may be able to read and write (which is what "literate" means). But, you may be unaware of certain issues or certain subjects. IGNORANCE does not mean ILLITERACY.

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I know the difference but i think in other words you are saying the same thing about indians that britishesr had said indian people are cats and dogs( which gandhi had protested) - sry but i have read it in grade 8 textbook history dont remmeber the chapter..  so Indian politicians were ingnorant - interesting point - people who ha this in mind that the people who were treated badly all over the century shud be given reserved seats for every field but they were ignorant abt women equality even after the raja ram mohan roy thing interesting..VERY INTERESTING!!

[quote=] Debates is about talking Heart Girl!! If i don't talk then who else would???😉ANd if this wasn't the fact, we wouldn't have taken part in this debator championship!  Just as you took the example of "ONE Neha dhupia" i gave the example of Manish malhotra. And designs do shift from each social class. From where the middle class gets to know about fashion :Fashions shows on TV. Then they buy it through Less priced stores. How is it possible that fashion doesn't have cycles???? IT does make trends ...if not customers!!😉 A very big misconception!! I guess you havent lived in india ever! Anyways, nobody buys the clothing that they see in a fashion show why? bc tehy are very expensive and only high class people can actually afford it which constitutes only i guess very few % of the population of India..i don have any fixed %age wid me! [/quote]

Thank God for cheap Imitations then! 😆 They do exist in India and the lower and middle classes do buy them. My friends got many cheaper fashions which imitated top designers within India. 😊

Ok yaay YOUR friend. you ppl dont consider whole population in which more than half are middle clas and many of them are below poverty line..ur frend bought ok - she must have money to afford teh Q is that can every middle class person  in India afford it? Answer is NO! hitting the same line!

Please re-read my original quote. My friend was one of the middle class people who cannot afford high fashion apparel. There are plenty of my own family members who are middle class and can't afford high fashion. So they purchase IMITATIONS, like I mentioned before.

Too bad English har skool, har state par cha gayi hai jahan hindi naam ki langiuage kuch salon mein exist nahi karegi!😃 We have accepted them into our culture is good but they are dominating our education system is tptally diff and unacceptable! [/quote]

Right, so they do exist in our culture. Why is it unacceptable then? 😉 (no sarcasm is intended in my winks or emoticons - just to clarify)

[quote=]And hindi is second most spoken language mayb bc India is on second number ppopulation wise.. This is all from paperwork actualli...I dont blv so veen though there are more 50,00 indians in North America .. i can bet you that only 2% of them will know how to speak thier language properly. And they dont even understand you when ou talk to them. 

Do you have stats to prove it?

I might not have any statistics btu according to my experience - I was in a school which was fulll of 99% Asian s mostly Indians and pakistanis and that where I got that from! [/quote]

Once more, these are a small % of Indian population.

But a relevant sample which can be representaive of atleast indians in NA! [/quote]

Relevant Sample? Kindly show us the statistical data which supports this along with your estimation of margin of errors in the data. You told me that one village is not a relevant sample. By that logic, ONE SCHOOL is not a relevant sample either.  

[quote=]Exactly. But, he could have only awakened us if there was something inside of us to begin with! 😃

So you are saying that we are actually nothing? All credit goes to west for what we are today?rite?

Absolutely WRONG. The point was that we always had our roots. The Oppression had merely put a curtain over them. Gandhi and other leaders were successful in moving that curtain aside.

And your other point is that Ghandi was educated under estern system rite?😆 you are getting bak the same thing up there taht i just explained!😆[/quote]

Yes, Gandhi was educated under the Western system. Yet, you pointed out that he never lost his culture. Which is exactly what I said. Western influences do not make one "lose" culture.

Gandhi never lost his culture YES i agree!! But will it be same with all teh Indians all across the world? NO! Does anyone today even care about thier culture? very few!  Kisse bahut boring hogaye hain, lets just watch a romantic movie haha!

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Again, how much is "very few"?

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Yes, technology is agood tool to play around with here. technological progressin is not westernization. Sai said it is shared all over the world.

Right. But technology changes your "way of life" too doesn't it? If we dont have problems sharing technology, then why is there a problem when we share language or clothing styles?

And how it changes your way of life- it make it "easier" and not "hard" and talkin about computers - it has helped us save our times as we can shop online etc and the result out of thi s is? We get more time for other purposes like going o temple, reading teh holybook etc!! do we do that? NO! What do you want to say now? [/quote]

Many things made life more convenient. Who said that when we DIDNT have computers everyone went to temples, etc? Many of us worshipped inside the home and continue to do so. Is there a necessity to go to a temple to show your faith?

No, it is not necesaary. Again you worshipped at home ..yes u may have!!  the teh q is how many Indians did! And what abt holybooks? What were those made for? ghar ke kone ki shobha ban-ne ke liye?

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Sorry, but most people do have them at home and they do worship at home...Can you say for a fact that they are just a "ghar ki shobha"?

[quote=]The villages I visited in Gujarat still had many people wearing traditional clothing.

Moreover, some of my south Indian friends have told me that where they live, Salwar-kameez is more commonly worn in comparison to jeans. Also, in South India, many men still wear the "lungi"

So you are talkin about A village that YOU visited in gujarat! Apki baat appe hi palti- few frends told about where they live!😊 [/quote]

And you are talking about all villages all over Punjab? By that account, I can invalidate your statement as well.

I think a sampel of whole state is nothign infront of one village! [/quote]

Oh, you have conducted statistical sampling? Kindly share those results with us, we will be more than happy to see them.

I am in GREEN Bold Italic Underlined (have i left any text distinguishness 😆)

Originally posted by: heart girl

BLUE ITALIC

 

[quote=]From where women got the realization of "Fighting for their right" it was the theory and movement of feminism which created a stirr in the world..not only South Asia!! Politicians, From where they took the inspiration?? From where they were educated?? What do u mean here? Were indian politicians illetrate?😕

Of course she doesn't mean that, but there were literate people who were narrow minded (or ignorant) about Issues like women's rights.

First u said these people weer educated under your so called western system and now you are calling them ignorant? [/quote]

You may be able to read and write (which is what "literate" means). But, you may be unaware of certain issues or certain subjects. IGNORANCE does not mean ILLITERACY.

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I know the difference but i think in other words you are saying the same thing about indians that britishesr had said indian people are cats and dogs( which gandhi had protested) - sry but i have read it in grade 8 textbook history dont remmeber the chapter..  so Indian politicians were ingnorant - interesting point - people who ha this in mind that the people who were treated badly all over the century shud be given reserved seats for every field but they were ignorant abt women equality even after the raja ram mohan roy thing interesting..VERY INTERESTING!!

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You are taking my entire quote out of context. I called people Ignorant. I didn't call them "cats and dogs". I too have studied History.

There is a difference between being ignorant of something and calling people derogatory names. Most Indian Women at that time were ignorant of the fact that they even had rights or COULD have rights. Moreover, Indian politicians initially had a patriarchal mind-set.

Ram Mohan Roy was one of the examples of an open-minded Indian who travelled all over the world and enlightened many others. Even though there were open-minded people in India, they were AFRAID to express themselves because of "ancient culture and tradition".  

How many people spoke out against Sati or purdah or child marriages or ill treatment of widows before that? Even though they thought it was unjust? The "ancient traditions" were suppressing them from speaking out.

You said before that the Western influence also has cons and I agree. But, at the same time, OUR "culture" isn't perfect and it had its own cons and abuses before the British invasion (which still continue in some regions unfortunately)

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Imitations - and what about quality? actually, it explains my point- fake things are being sold in our country which use less quality threads for embroidery and is taht real indian reputation? we are famous for these things rite? Kyun kami hogayi hai :orignal" cheeszon ki coz they are high priced and only few people buy them! Why? coz our tradiional clotjhing is not in trend anymore haha! too bad!!

High priced things are not bought because they also have things like brands and designer labels. They are expensive.

But, expense never deteriorates a fashion trend. Thats why you have both Vimal's clothing and the roadside clothing stall.

Quality is another issue and irrelevant to this topic.  

Too bad English har skool, har state par cha gayi hai jahan hindi naam ki langiuage kuch salon mein exist nahi karegi!😃 We have accepted them into our culture is good but they are dominating our education system is tptally diff and unacceptable!

Right, so they do exist in our culture. Why is it unacceptable then? 😉 (no sarcasm is intended in my winks or emoticons - just to clarify)

Yes they do like buddhs,jains,muslims and others. I said the thier langauue takin gover our language sis anaaccpetale..idk wat u r thinking!

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Yes, but now since they are a part of our culture (as you agreed), their language is OUR language, isnt it? The way the language of the Aryans is now our language?

Hope that is clear. 😊

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Imitations - and what about quality? actually, it explains my point- fake things are being sold in our country which use less quality threads for embroidery and is taht real indian reputation? we are famous for these things rite? Kyun kami hogayi hai :orignal" cheeszon ki coz they are high priced and only few people buy them! Why? coz our tradiional clotjhing is not in trend anymore haha! too bad!!
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High priced things are not bought because they also have things like brands and designer labels. They are expensive.

But, expense never deteriorates a fashion trend. Thats why you have both Vimal's clothing and the roadside clothing stall.

Quality is another issue and irrelevant to this topic.  

Originally posted by: T.

yes but only bcoz there are few muslims in india we cant start printing books in urdu and same with sikhs -- they cant start printing books in punjabi all over india! They are a part of our culture but are a minority!


Edited by heart girl - 17 years ago

Red - mine

Originally posted by: T.

Originally posted by: heart girl

[quote=]

Imitations - and what about quality? actually, it explains my point- fake things are being sold in our country which use less quality threads for embroidery and is taht real indian reputation? we are famous for these things rite? Kyun kami hogayi hai :orignal" cheeszon ki coz they are high priced and only few people buy them! Why? coz our tradiional clotjhing is not in trend anymore haha! too bad!!

High priced things are not bought because they also have things like brands and designer labels. They are expensive.

But, expense never deteriorates a fashion trend. Thats why you have both Vimal's clothing and the roadside clothing stall.

Quality is another issue and irrelevant to this topic.  

But Indians are also known for something. just take the exampel of pashmina shawls- if we start selling fake material in low price ofcourse - does that show what indians are known for? things like shawals, emboridery, and the special material is what india is known for and that's why those invaders came into india - to get this-!

See, affordability and economic status is different. Pashmina is a high quality material derived from the undercoat fur of a goat. You have to kill Himalayan mountain goats for this.

Moreover, Pashmina is not as expensive as it used to be:

Pashmina has dropped in price significantly since it made its first appearance in the West. While shawls in the mid-1990s could easily cost upwards of US$400, a nice pashmina shawl may now be found for under US$200. Prices are unlikely to drop much further in the near future, however, due to the limited range of the Himalayan goat and the finite amount of wool which can be exported. (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-pashmina.htm)

If you consider inflation trends, US$400 from the 1990s was more valuable than US$400 today let alone US$ 200. Affordability was an issue even when Pashminas were first introduced.

Moreover due to the scarcity of the mountain goat, less shawls can be made. (high demand = high price) This is purely an economic argument. Similar to how most of us are now using up oil, coal and other natural resources, which is driving their prices up.

Interesting fact: Pashmina is derived from a Persian word called "pashm", which refers to the undercoat of animals.  

    Lack of time nowadays is NOT an excuse BUT a reality. And if it wasn't i would not have said that. Even if you are trying to use a small Kameez insead of suit even then you are sticking to our culture, our multi-shaded culture as Kameez (Whether small or loose or big) it is kameez after all. I repeat myself, PRacticality and Time saving are the top priorities now. If the purpose of a person to wear a casual or formal dress at work, they will decide on these two parameters whether they come up with jeans or short kameez or for that matter, Suits!

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Apne religion, apni family etc ke liye time nikalna padta hai hota kisi ke pas nahi hai!😊 baaki i wont repeat agin nd agin

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Baaki i m not in mood of reading!😆

you are presenting things based on reasearch & theories and nnto atually wat u blv in! Anyways, was nice debating against you!😊